Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - You, The Viewer
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Tamaria
 Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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I'm not too fond of the magical girl genre, but hey, there is more out there than just that, so who cares?
Are you insulting Wild Tiger? You suck 
And if we're talking tropes, manga has it's own impractical battle outfits. Schooluniforms for instance. Oh, and have you ever watched one of those super sentai shows?
Good point, but you can find his kind in manga as well.
To be fair, this only goes for the biggest superhero comics. There are also plenty of works that are selfcontained. And again, manga is guilty just the same. I think we all agree that Bleach is getting ridiculous and that series is less than two decades old!
Yep, stupid. One of the reasons I avoid most superhero comics. Good thing there is more out there than just one genre.
While the growth of American comics has been stunted by the Comics Code, the code itself is ancient history by now. The American comics industry is now a pimply hormone factory that can't stop drawing boobies. So again, it's not all that different from the Japanese manga industry. |
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Plus, in regard to the original allegations in Seduction of the Innocent, American comic books have a ton of 100% openly homosexual characters; they're not just secretly turning us gay with Batman and Robin anymore. |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13230 |
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I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but better safe than sorry... If a person finds a show confusing, more often than not they'll blame the show because there's absolutely no way there's something wrong with them. It's not that they're not smart enough or anything, it's all the show's fault for being something no one can understand. Most people don't like to admit their own failings, especially not when there's a readily available scapegoat handy. The only anime I can think of that I'd say it's 100% the show's fault for not making sense is The Big O. I don't think anyone knows what the heck went on in the 2nd season ending, but that much is understandable since the show was cut short. |
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GVman
 Posts: 729 |
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Shounen isn't a genre. It's a target audience. |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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The main problem with American superhero comics are they never end or are taken seriously. That's it. That's the bottom line. You can't keep going for 60 years, spanning multiple series at once (I swear Spider-Man had like 5 comics at one time) and not expect continuity or plot issues to pop up. Throw in "shared universes" and it becomes even more of a mess.. speak nothing of terrible marketing tactics like "find out what happens next in issue #whatever of Series-You-Dont-Read-But-Now-You-Have-To" It's like having to pick up Naruto to see what happens in the next chapter of Bleach.
The problem isn't the concept of superheroes in itself.. they can be a good story. Tiger & Bunny and Kamen Rider Fourze have proven that much. Those are two amazing series that basically put Marvel and DC to shame. It's all the way they're handled. The difference is Tiger & Bunny ended, and if it gets another series it probably won't last 50 years like Batman. Fourze is just 10 episodes in and it'll end at about 50 episodes like all previous Kamen Rider series before it. It tells it's story and then it finishes, that's how it goes. Except Marvel/DC NEED Batman and SPider-Man to survive. They can't end them, or they go out of business. American Comics sales decline every year, and the only ones that sell worth mentioning are those staple superheroes. No new hero DC or Marvel can create to replace them will ever do as good, and they dug themselves into a corner. IT's why they'll never actually kill off the Joker or anyone for good. They have to rely on recycling things. It also doesn't help that the market is dominated by superheroes so that's all people are ever going to see. And that's just comics. Why someone would want to make an "anime" over a "cartoon" should be obvious enough. You can't really make a cartoon like Steins;Gate here, so telling someone to go try to make an anime is more realistic, even if it's unlikely. |
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st_owly
 Posts: 5234 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland |
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*coughCLAMPcough.* Superheroes aren't the only ones who do this. |
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Shenl742
Posts: 1524 |
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This scabs been picked too many damn times so I'll just say this:
I've read super-hero comics since I was THREE and I don't think Id have near the love and appreciation of for anime and manga if I hadn't already developed a love and appreciation for those comics, which I still hold. And while I like a good, decompressed narative like you'd find in a Shonen Jump action series... ...I can also appreciate a fight scene which only takes one issue to do like you'd find in western books. 
Now can we all PLEASE stop *****ing about comic books and their hypothetical value in comparison to manga? It's a real dead horse argument at this point. |
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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Card Captor Sakura and Chobits are CLAMP, right? I enjoyed those no problem, so I'm not sure what you mean. And even if you can name one or two exceptions, an exception does not disprove the rule. Don't even try to act like it's a just as common of an occurrence in manga. |
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Shenl742
Posts: 1524 |
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There's no manga that's like Ostrander's run on Suicide Squad, Moore's Promethea, or Busiek's Astro City, Morrison's All-Star Superman or Ellis' Nextwave.
I mean...what the hell? How am I suppose to take Japan seriously? I wonder sometimes... |
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KENZICHI
 Posts: 1103 |
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st_owly's talking about Tsubasa RC and xxxHolic when it comes to CLAMP's shared universe. Though, luckily, you don't have to read any Cardcaptors or Chobits to understand these two. However, you do sort of have to read both xxxHolic and Tsubasa RC to get the whole story of these two because their stories are intertwined. |
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kakoishii
Posts: 741 |
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Rest assured I was being sincere in my confusion. I honestly could not follow your post. As for my opinion on the matter, despite the fact there are people out there who can't understand the apparent "genius" of a show that is complex and non-linear in its story telling, imho viewers don't owe a show anything. I love Ergo Proxy to death, and am forever saddened by the fact that the series is out of print and I never got the box set, but I'd never be upset with someone who hated the show for it not being accessible to them. Entertainment is meant to entertain and isn't promised anyone's viewership. If it's unable to reach an audience, then yes, I would say it's the show's fault. And lets be honest, anime more often than not deliberately tries to be round about and eluding to its own fault, not that these things are often lost on me because more than often than not I'm able to piece things together, but it's gimicky and done so often it betrays the viewership that it wants to be loyal to it. Just saying.... p.s. I've watced The Big O so many times over trying to figure out what I missed, and I still haven't figured it out yet. See how deliberately trying to elude your audience can be a detriment?
Are. you. kidding. me?  Titan we all know you mean well, or at least I hope you do, but you're digging yourself into a hole here. Please stop.
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vashfanatic
Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Watchmen. Gotham Central. The Dark Knight Returns. And many, many others... Now, admittedly, that middle one is just a short run within the expansive DC Universe. But as someone whose entire exposure to DC was simply watching Batman: The Animated Series, I had no problem understanding Gotham Central. It stands on its own. It's what got me into DC Comics. As for continuity, as Linkara aptly explained it, good continuity makes you want to read other parts of the universe. Bad continuity makes you confused. There's both good and bad continuity in comic books, and it can be difficult at first to get an entry point (I still haven't found one with Marvel), but it's not impossible. So yeah, you obviously don't really know much about American comic books, which is fine if you're not interested in them, but stop talking as if you do. They're different from the way manga is written, true, and I prefer manga as well, but that doesn't necessarily make them inferior. |
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Tamaria
Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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There are two movies planned for next year... Plus, Kotestu and Barnaby are the new Rei and Asuka. So much merchandise... Speaking of Evangelion, there are atleast two alternate manga universes. And the movies are essentially a reboot, aren't they? Japan is perfectly capable of copying every annoying trait American comics have ever had and it's bringing in a lot of money. So instead of generalising, why not judge series/stories/IPs individually? |
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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So it's only two series then? I wouldn't say that's the same as hundreds of different crossover series about the same characters. Especially when they're apparently both ended. Not like having a title for each hero of the Justice League, and then 2 Batman/Superman team up, and then like 4 Justice League books as well. Which don't end short of series-wide reboots. I might check them out actually, just to see how it's done. Sounds kind of interesting and unique. Kind of like Legend of Zelda Oracle of Seasons/Ages dual games which were fun
Did you really list some Batman comics? Or are you going down the "it's a Batman mini series you can read by itself so that counts as an ending" type of deal? Not really the same thing, and it still assumes you know who Batman and everyone are.
As someone who used to read them when I was a young teenager and grew out of them, I'd say it's a pretty accurate description and I have plenty of first hand knowledge. I know all the problems with them and what made me quit
So a 25 episode series and two movies are the same as 60+ years of thousands and thousands of comics in your eyes. Well, alright then. If you can't really see the difference between Tiger and Bunny and DC Comics, then I don't know what to tell you. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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You know Titan, you're more than welcome to never pick up a DC/Marvel universe comic. Lord knows I don't blame people who find them impenetrable. I guess where you slip into shameless weeaboo territory though is when you bitch and moan about all this and then act like it somehow supports your ridiculous blanket dismissal of all western comics.
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