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Winter 2012 Anime Spotlight

amagee wrote:

The fact that Madoka was an artsy, darker take on a typically stupid genre (I'm not a magical girl fan on almost every other occasion) would make me separate it from typical "otaku aimed" fair. I would see it as rather a kind of physical manifestation of a commentary on how these typically inane shows can really have depth, proper emotional impact, and impeccable art when well thought out and carefully produced.

The problem here is that you are assuming all otaku anime is instantly bad. Just because its aimed at otaku first and foremost doesn't mean that its bad... there is both bad and good otaku anime. Just like there is both good and bad anime aimed at the mainstream audience.

But when it comes down to it, Madoka was aimed at the otaku audience. Its got cute underage magical girls, all kinds of merchandise like body pillows and beach figurines, and there is nothing made this year that has had more doujins. Otaku stuff is the only kind of anime that can sell as many copies as Madoka did as well, since the more casual fans aren't willing to dish out 80 dollars for 2 episodes.

Actually, it totally is. Any fujoshi anime has many more DVD sales (for whatever reason, women in Japan aren't into BDs), and Natsume is very DVD heavy with its sales. Thats the #1 way to see which gender something is aimed at.

Male Otaku stuff (like Madoka and Infinite Stratos) is typically like 80-90% BD while Natsumes 3rd season was 40-50% BD

The problem here is that you are assuming all otaku anime is instantly bad. Just because its aimed at otaku first and foremost doesn't mean that its bad...

Being aimed at a female audience does not mean it's aimed at fujoshi.

Also know that 'fujoshi' doesn't equate to BL anymore. It has now become basically just a 'female otaku'. Someone can be a fujoshi and not be into BL whatsoever. So when I say that Natsume Yuujinchou is a show aimed at fujoshi, I am not strictly saying it is only for BL fanatics, as fujoshi years ago referred to that particular crowd.

When I say that 'X is aimed at Y', I am referring to sales.

Megiddo wrote:

When I say that 'X is aimed at Y', I am referring to sales.

Then maybe just say "X is popular with Y / X gets most of its sales from Y". Because "aimed at" means something different, and therefore people will always understand it differently. ^^

Anime on TV are generally just commercials for the DVD/BD release. They aim it at the people who will buy it, not the people who watch. And the people who are buying it are the fujoshi.

Since when does "fujoshi" mean "female otaku"? I know Japanese and am living in Japan. Never once have I ever heard "fujoshi" used to refer to a "female otaku." A girl who's really into anime is called an "otaku." The word "otaku" doesn't dictate a specific gender.

GokuMew2 wrote:

Since when does "fujoshi" mean "female otaku"? I know Japanese and am living in Japan. Never once have I ever heard "fujoshi" used to refer to a "female otaku." A girl who's really into anime is called an "otaku." The word "otaku" doesn't dictate a specific gender.

Yeah, but this is an American based site. The english fandom has changed the meanings of words like otaku, fujoshi, and moe to suit their needs even if it's not the original meaning of the word. 'Fujoshi' is simply easier to say than 'female otaku.'

I certainly don't believe otaku anime are inherently big, stinky piles of animated funk. I watch anime like Evangelion, K-ON!, Ghost in the Shell, and Gundam (my interest in this last one distinctly places me on a "Gundam otaku" level) which I've seen major authorities in the market call "otaku fair".

As I said in the bit you quoted, I would say that the carefully handled production and well crafted story of Madoka separates it from other magical girl otaku stuff. While Madoka can hold its own against the best anime I've seen from other genres, I can't help but admit that stuff like merchandise and doujins might be overrun with otaku interests.

I mean, I purchased the "Production Note" book set for this series because I enjoyed the artistry displayed in the show. This is clearly less creepy to me than stuff like body pillows and questionably well proportioned figurines but most would say this simply makes me an "art otaku".

Distinguishing between the production itself and the overall franchise is key here for me. It's my thought that if the anime is so good that anyone, fan or not can watch the original program and enjoy (or at the very least respect) it, it allows itself to shake off the commonly assigned moniker of "otaku fair" and all the negative baggage which comes with that. Doing so on a franchise-wide level, however, is a totally different story.

I've noticed that this conversation has gotten a little out of control on a totally unrelated thread. I'm going to cut and paste all the stuff related to this discussion and place it on a thread I'll call "Madoka: Otaku" in the general anime section if any of you are interested in more discussion. I hate to be that guy who jacks a thread.

Fujoshi means female otaku. It may have meant BL in the past, but now it is generally used to mean female otaku.

That said, if you look at the people who buy the DVD/BDs of Natsume Yuujinchou, I guarantee you that the majority are fujoshi. Buying anime in Japan isn't a (somewhat) minor thing like it is here. To get all of the Natsume singles for the (so far) 3 seasons would cost around 90,000 yen. That is not a purchase that someone who is only a minor fan would go for. The masses will go for the manga and the fujoshi get the anime. That's how it goes.