Forum - View topicLove Hina Review on IGN
|
Goto page 1, 2 Next |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
|||
|
Everyone, read this review of Love Hina (if you haven't yet):
http://dvd.ign.com/articles/317653p1.html I'd like to start a discussion on this review here. I'll post my opinion on it later, after some others have come forth. -Zac |
||||
|
||||
|
Vash0
Posts: 1 Location: Florida |
|
|||
|
Hi im new to the boards, but have been into anime awhile.
I saw the review last night, its one of the sites i check offten, so i sent an email to the people last night and had my friends do the same. I've seen some bad reviews but actuly calling people who like it losers?! Well what do you exspect from a mainstream site reviewing anime... "Hi, first i would like to say than im a frequent visitor to your site and was excited to see a review of Love Hina... at lease i was.. I don't think in reading any review of dvds or anime have i seen a review so one-sided, more than that being insulted with the line "You're welcome to like this, but if you do, you're a loser." Well i shouldn't of been expecting much..your ign people gave Ninja Scroll a great rating... I've been into anime for several years, seen hundreds of movies, oavs, series. So i know my anime, and Love Hina is one of my favorites. Why you ask? Because its a well written show with great characters and its funny. So i must be a loser according to you? Let me guess what you think is good anime.. Golden Boy, huh? Just like that idiot who works at Camelot in the mall... So before you go around insulting otaku (which i don't think there is worse you can do) watch half of the stuff coming out today, or just watch cartoon network and maybe you would appriate good anime. Heck you might of liked it better if you would of turned off the dub for a minute.. By the way...Kaolla owns you. =)" |
||||
|
||||
Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10421 Location: Do not message me for support. |
|
|||
|
That review has been a pretty hot topic of conversation on other Discussion groups as well lately. I haven'tread it, but I guess I'm going to have to.
|
||||
|
||||
Atomsk
 Posts: 11 |
|
|||
|
Pffft, you can never have too much fanservice
|
||||
|
||||
|
mike3560
Posts: 23 |
|
|||
|
Either 1. He really hates his job.
2. He's looking to generate some cheap heat 3. He really hates the anime 4. Or some combination of the 3 previous. I'd probably vote for #4. I never really liked IGN even before this, simply because I never cared for the writing style. They were always put a bit too much personal slant in it for my tastes, but that's me. As for the review, this is sort of the case of not biting the hand that feeds. If you really want to be that insulting to your audience that's your call, but don't expect them to exactly flock back to your site. I'm not saying bend over backwards and don't take a stand at all, but a little diplomacy isn't always a bad thing. As for Love Hina myself, since I'm older I compare it to Maison Ikkoku, which I enjoyed more. In Maison Ikkoku the humor was more understated, and the characters had a more real-world feel to them. Not saying Love Hina's a bad series, but I do think the general idea has been done better in other anime. |
||||
|
||||
|
Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10421 Location: Do not message me for support. |
|
|||
|
Well, I read the review... I seem to remember reading part of it before but I don't think I ever finished it.
Good Points: well crafted, he did a very good job of getting the point accorss that love Hina was for losers, that the main character was a loser, and that everything had been done before. He also used creative and original writting. Bad Points: Inacurate description of the series at hand, the reviewers belief was that Love Hina is nothing but Fans-service and sexual gags, that everything else it attempted to do it failed at, so he completely ignored every other aspect of the series except the fanservice and sexual gagas. Fact is, regardless of what he thought of the other elements of Love Hina, he should have still disscused two or three of them. But worst of all, generalizations about the viewers. "Only Losers will like this." Not very many people think of themselves as losers, I'm sure some people can look in the mirror and say "Yeah, I'm pretty much the kind of guy he's describing," but even they dont outright think they'r losers. So any one who likes Love Hina and reads this review will stop taking the author seriously instantly. I don't think I'm a loser, I don't look in the mirror and feel that I'm part of the group that would automatically sympathise with the protagonist, I didn't sympathise with the protagonist, but I still enjoyed Love Hina very much. At first, it's funny seing a sappy little loser like him getting the shit kicked out of him by all these girls. Later, as character development fleshes the characters out, other things begin to appear, a genuine interest in their affairs... As a reviewer, you should never ever genralise about your readers and the audience of the tv series/movie/book/play/whatever at hand, you shouldn't insult them, and you shouldn't go too far about who will or will not like a particular pieve of work. Sure you can say "so and so will probably like this, and people with these tastes probably won't"... but you can't say "Only these people will enjoy this, no one else." There's no accounting for some people's tastes, they will see things that the reviewer doesn't, place differing ammounts of importance on the various aspects, and have different tastes than the reviewer. |
||||
|
||||
Tenchi
 Posts: 4471 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
|
|||
|
I haven't seen enough of Love Hina to have an opinion one way or the other, aside from the fact that I often get it confused with To Heart for some reason (no androids nor weird occult girls in Love Hina), but I loved this review. Nasty reviews are usually a lot more fun for the reader than uncritical fawning praise reviews. Roger Ebert knows this; he has a whole book full of nasty reviews entitled I Hated, Hated, Hated this Movie.
I'm not entirely convinced that this review was even intended to be taken at face value; in a way the reaction to this review reminds me a lot of the reaction on anime forums a month ago towards the satirical Christian anti-anime opinion piece at Adequacy.org to which many hundreds of angry anime fans responded seriously, even though the article was, to me at least, obviously nothing but a bold-faced, tongue-in-cheek spoof. (The ultimate proof that the Adequacy.org article (see http://adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/11/20/94827/169 ) was a spoof, for those of you that read it yet somehow avoided noticing that Adequacy.org is a mostly satirical Website and NOT a Christian site, is that every message I posted in the comment section pointing out that it is indeed a spoof has been deleted.) It's pretty clear that David Smith probably really did find Love Hina to be hackneyed and cliché-ridden, going where every male-oriented romantic comedy anime made since the heydays of the Kimagure Orange Road and Maison Ikkoku era of the late '80s has gone before. He certainly could have written a polite negative review, but as someone who has written quite a few reviews myself, no matter how "nice" you are in your negative review, you're always going to get a few of the rabid fanboys for that particular series putting a fatwa on your head. I guess he figured that if they were going to write angry e-mails anyway, why not have a little fun by pushing all of their hot buttons?
Oh My Goddess! is my favourite manga series, yet I'm not offended in any way by that portion of his review. To me, it's no different than the old Saturday Night Live sketch wherein William Shatner tells Trekkers at a Star Trek convention to "Get a life!" I know he's really winking at me and that I'm not really supposed to get anything other than a hearty chuckle out of that statement. (Of course, if he's talking about the animated version of Oh My Goddess, he has a few good points. The problem with the OVAs is that, while the animation is gorgeous to look at, the character development, particularly with Belldandy, was extremely shallow compared to the manga, so that Belldandy is much too demure without any other character traits. As for attraction to "kid sisters", I'm glad he didn't bring up any conjecture about Megumi.) |
||||
|
||||
|
skysenshi
Posts: 3 Location: Asia |
|
|||
I usually like reviews that are more like opinions because there is something more to an opinionated reviewer's experience that makes his/her writing so much more effective (as in getting points across, and seeing things that other more objective viewers don't see). However, you're very very right. He went a little too far when he started getting personal, unconsciously attacking the fans, instead of just the anime. Methinks he's only seen one or two anime, or just aware of the mainstream ones. Maybe they should stick to games? |
||||
|
||||
|
Pol
Posts: 9 Location: Philly |
|
|||
|
As a reviewer myself, I try to make the review as objective as possible. I do not want to alienate my audience, who may or may not be new to the series, or even to anime in general. Its fine to include the reviewer's personal opinion of the series, so long as it does not take away from the just description of the title. A subjective section of the review can be valuable and offer a stronger argument for the reader to go by.
But when push comes to shove, I think the objective section of the review needs to dominate, showcasing the anime in question with an explanation that is not partial in its judgement. Basically, the facts have to be set on the table first. After that, and only after that, can the reviewer express any radical opinions regarding the title. My three and a half cents. |
||||
|
||||
|
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
|||
|
Pol, as a reviewer for about 6 years now, I can tell you that your formula for a review is the quickest way to establish yourself as a middle-of-the-road, uninteresting writer. Were I to write reviews in the fashion you suggest, it would generate no discussion whatsoever and, frankly, be really dull to read. Reviews ARE opinion pieces; people read them to find out what the reviewer's subjective opinion is. You lay out the major details, give a small plot summary, and then launch into your opinion. That's what people want to read. The more entertaining and interesting your opinion is, the more people want to read. It's even better if you're a good writer and feel strongly about something. You say "it is fine to include the reviewer's personal opinion of the title" as if that weren't intended to be the major function of the review. I don't read Roger Ebert because he gives the best summaries; I watch trailers and read studio materials for a summary of what the film is about. I read ROger Ebert beacuse he has a passion for film, and can write, and isn't afraid to tear something down or praise it to high heaven. The bulk of his reviews are his opinion. The bulk of ANY review should be opinion. So, I disagree with your summation of what a review "should" be. You're putting way, way too much importance on the summary aspect of a review; in fact, that is the least important thing. It only comes in to play to establish what you're talking about and as a referent during deconstruction and analysis. I've never read your reviews, but I hope (pray) that you care enough about your readers to give them more than a technically accurate summary followed by a mild, banal, apologetic opinion.
-Zac |
||||
|
||||
|
Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10421 Location: Do not message me for support. |
|
|||
In regards to the Love Hina review, that possibility hadn't even ocurred to me.
Hmm, while reviews are in the end nothing more than opinion, there are different ways of presenting that opinion. Sometimes masking it in objectivity and trying to be "objective" can make for very good reviews... admittedly these reviews are less "fun" then the more opinionated ones.. they're still very valid IMHO. |
||||
|
||||
|
Pol
Posts: 9 Location: Philly |
|
|||
|
Perhaps I phrased my reviweing intentions incorrectly. I agree with your points and i understand where i am wrong. My intention was to point out that a review NEEDS a good synopsis of the FACTS, as the first part of its 2 PART FUNCTION. The second, and (usually) equal part of the review is the opinion. A strong or even radical opinion about the series is fine, but I feel that the radical reviews done for anime (as opposed to any other medium) can be poorly done or misleading. I think that in the anime reviewing field, there are many writers who are not well-versed in the ways of organizing a decent review. When they have an extremely radical opinion that either praises a series to deity status, or blasts the series out of the water with weak arguments, i dont find the argunebt to be worth reading because it is coming from a zealot with no ability to ACCEPT anything other than HIS OR HER ideal. It alienates the reader because they may not share the same opinion or it makes them feel as if they are being talked down to. One of the major flaws i have seen in some reviews is the fact that the writer seems to be talking down to the reader as if they were the superior guru of all anime knowledge. The opinion may be completely accurate and well-founded, but it also makes the reviewer look like a jerk. This may be the intent of some reviewers, to press their opinion on others by force. This is not my approach, as I like to offer a friendly review to the reader that provides a certain level of insight as well as my own opinion. I try to balance both cases, letting my opinion out, but explaining my personal reason for having that opinion and how it may or may not apply to other viewers in different circumstances.
I understand that tehre are various methods and schools of reviewing, and that mine may not be agreeable with everyone. As you pointed out, it may even class my work as 'middle-ground'. It is not my intent to become a major icon in the world of anime reviewing. It is more important to me that my readers will have an easier time deciding where their money goes, or that they find some piece of reasearch they may need. I do not wish to overshadow the series I am reviewing. I just want to offer casual information for someone who is slightly curious on what an anime may be like. To me a review is not some golden piece of literature, but a resource material for viewer convenience. If I want to express a radical opinion in a review I will do so, stating clearly that it is just that. A radical opinion. If I want to expand on that I can always write an editorial. Honestly, I respect the various review styles, as well as your opinion. Its to be expected that two reviewers may disagree. Its part of the business. I mean no disrespect to your style or your opinions. I am just expalining my own style and my motives for using it. :) |
||||
|
||||
|
skysenshi
Posts: 3 Location: Asia |
|
|||
|
Whoa! Long discussion. I simply expressed an opinion
 . I'm a reviewer myself, and there was a time that I used to write "objectively"--until I realized no person can be totally objective. Culture still comes out strongly in one's reviews (especially as I live in Asia and many of my sites' reviewers are from the US). What is noticeable to most Asians are not noticeable to Americans, or Europeans for that matter... and vice-versa.
The solution I drafted for that is I let many opinions from different backgrounds be posted on all my sites (Anime Okashi, Disc13, and Hentai Neko) so we could "compare notes". |
||||
|
||||
Morrolan
 Posts: 29 Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada... byatch! |
|
|||
|
Well, if you go to the root site [ http://dvd.ign.com ] there's another anime review up: Jin Roh special edition. While I didn't agree with absolutely everything in here [I never really have completely agreed with any review I've read] this one at least manages to avoid outright hatred of it's subject matter, and is actually *gasp* helpful! I may just like it more because it's positive, but at least it shows that not everyone at IGN is stupid.
|
||||
|
||||
ShockWave
 Posts: 22 Location: Atlanta |
|
|||
|
Opinion, intention.
Irrelevant. The issue with this review is that the writer, David Smith, insists on insulting the audience. And for this reason I am amazed and stunned that the editorial staff of ign.com allowed this review to be posted. It is my experience that in any review it is fine to criticize the product, but you step over the line when you criticize the audience. Roger Ebert may have written in his review of North that he 'hated, hated, hated, hated this movie,' but I have trouble seeing where he would feel the need, or even the right, to say that those who did enjoy the movie that they were idiots lacking the basic reasoning skills to distinguish between a film and the garbage can. It strikes me that the reviewer doesn't like his job very much. His generalized descriptions of the anime coming out now as only appealing to sexually frustrated males, his blasting of fans of anime from the same romantic comedy genre (I quite enjoyed the Oh! My Goddess OVAs and movie, thankyouverymuch), and even his contempt for products he states he previously enjoyed such as Evangelion all say to me that he is burnt out and needs to find something else to do. To the author I say I am very sorry that he hates what he does so much, but please don't drag me down with you. List of insults: "Love Hina is a mediocre, predictable, unoriginal effort to appeal to the sizable majority of the anime-buying market that will never, ever, ever get a date." "Never mind he's a complete gimp -- the audience, presumably, is fully in the grip of diseased harem fantasies at this point, and thus bereft of the logical faculties necessary to realize what nonsense this all is." "It could, of course, be worse. Love Hina is in many ways not half as disturbing as something like Oh! My Goddess, and its fans less bothersome than the Belldandy obsessives who are so obviously in the grip of a dire lust for their mothers (or the Skuld-following minority that presumably wanted to bang their kid sisters when they were young)." "Yusaku Godai couldn't get into college to save his life, but at least he could have realistically gotten a date. And neither can you, all of you, so for your own sake stop fooling yourself and watching this kind of diseased fantasy-fulfilling twaddle. Accept it like I have, wha? And find something more original to whack off over. |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group