Forum - View topicNEWS: Japan Fights Piracy Abroad
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mufurc
 Posts: 612 |
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I remember many places selling fansub tapes, and even some subbers selling their subs, either openly or covertly. Come on, it wasn't a paradise, even "back then."
I have to agree on this, though... it's really annoying.
Eh. West != North America! Maybe you don't need fansubs anymore, but there are still places in the world where anime fans would be pretty much screwed without them because imports are bloody expensive (at least for our wallets), the local anime community is too small to sub for themselves (from Japanese), and/or domestic companies don't release certain titles. Note: I'm not saying US companies should pay regard to non-American anime fans or anything - it's just that it always annoys me when people talk about "the western anime fandom" and mean only North America. And as for spreading raws on Bittorrent or p2p... One, it's not only the evil westerners who do this, it's often Asians themselves who rip and share stuff. Two, there are many anime I bought/plan to buy that I could've never watched without being able to download the raws. Maybe I should've just bought the DVDs, but I never had 200,000 yen ready for LoGH, and I absolutely refuse to pay 6000 yen +shipping for a disc with only one episode (in case of the Mirage of Blaze OAV). So... yeah. Thank god for raws. (Edited because I wasn't being too clear.) Last edited by mufurc on Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NomortaL
Posts: 7 |
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No, not always. It's true, sometimes ill watch a series think its OK, but i wont buy it. But i buy my share. I have quite a few DVDs. With a movie its kind of easy to decide if you want to buy it or not. Watch 2hours, its over and complete. You can decide if you really want to spend your money on it. However with renting an anime DVD its like watching half or 45min of a movie, then having to decide if you really want to spend your money on it because the whole series is 600minutes. Did my analogy make sense? |
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CrackaJax
 Posts: 250 Location: Mount Olympus, Syracuse University |
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This is how it is. Companies (ADV, Bandai, Lion Gate Films, WB, etc.) all sell their DVDs to the stores for about 1/2 the MSRP (Usually 29.95 for a DVD). So, it is the store's fault. Conventional wisdom among the stores is that you sell it for double the price you bought it at, so you'll make a good profit. (That's how we get the MSRP) The fact that anime is sold to them at about $5 more, turns into an extra $10 we have to pay compared to regular movies. So, it all become about which company you support. DDD sells the videos at a low price, so they aren't making as much per item sold. Yet they still turn out a big profit because people buy so much from them. They make up for quality with quantity. |
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Kazuki-san
 Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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I wonder if any of you have heard of Best Buy? Or in some cases Fry's Electronics? Eva Plat Vol 1 w/ box is selling at BB at half MSRP. If you go to a mom and pop store, you will pay for it, because they don't sell enough to have low prices. (or you can go to Suncoast to get screwed too) |
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sailor_titan
 Posts: 51 Location: Vermont |
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Unfortunately, I've found reviews to be highly unreliable, so I'm sure that doesn't work for everyone. A lot of shows that get five star reviews, like Evangelion and Lain, I absolutely hated, while other shows that got mediocre or bad reviews, like Twelve Kingdoms or Saint Tail, I loved. |
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kyuu
 Posts: 16 Location: Tampere, Finland |
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Granted. No paradise, but generally a bit better I think. I do remember this problem, but I don't think it was far from the massive problem it is nowadays.
There are no dedicated anime companies in Finland either (northern Europe, where I live). A few DVD stores that import some titles, mostly only on request. Except for some ancient hentai vhs's on sale and some two-three anime movies, you won't find any anime in a supermarket or at a major DVD seller. Except for around five mangas ever published locally, you won't find any of those in major bookstores either. Again, we have about half a dozen shops in the entire country who sell import manga. Generally, manga is doing better - the price difference between ordering from outside and buying here is minimal. That's because books have a smaller VAT here than for example DVD's, and most of the times when an individual orders a DVD, (s)he doesn't pay VAT as the order value is small enough. So, the net and credit cards work. If you don't have a credit card, there's someone in the community who has one. We can keep up a small list of DVD and manga sellers around the world, what kind of experiences we've had with them, what are the shipping times and so on. Clearly many US/Canada based companies have interest in these small northern corners of Europe, as we've even had them as small sponsors to an event here. Thanks to the postal office and various courier companies, ordering is easy. Some companies (mostly Canadian ones, from my experience) actually give a damn about European customers so getting anime isn't that hard. Putting this information down in local language here has helped, and it's not really a huge amount of work required. I would suggest that similar resources in other countries would also be quite helpful.
Actually, I think there's been improvement in this - obviously Viz being the exception. Roughly estimated currency conversions follow. Some years back, I remember ending up paying about $200 for each of the two Fushigi Yugi DVD boxes, including all the costs of shipping etc. Later on, series boxes like Slayers, Miyu or NGE have come down to around $100-$120 alltogether. And some series like Sorcerer Hunters come down to only around $50. I'd say there has been radical improvement in the pricing for most companies. Partly this is thanks to lower shipping rates and other helpful changes by dvd sellers, but much of it is also thanks to the publishers/distributors. |
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CrackaJax
Posts: 250 Location: Mount Olympus, Syracuse University |
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Some places will sell anime cheap, like Best Buy, because they don't worry too much about it. They get plenty of revenue from everything else, and if they make a niche audience happy, then they'll see profits go up some more because of increased purchasing.
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pyr3sayz
Posts: 20 |
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I agree with you on the renting part. But what they *really* need to do is air them on TV. That way people can see them for free and decide to buy them or not. That is what will really increase the popularity. This is the option that the Japanese get. I know there are OVAs and such, but the majority of anime is on TV, especially the larger ones. There aren't too many 26- or 52-episode OVAs for a reason. As for the renting, being able to rent anime is relatively new (at least so far as I know). There used to be very few places that would rent anime back on VHS (local anime shops that would rent stuff, and not many places have 'local anime shops'. Usually only larger cities and such.). Now we have netflix and other online sites, but some people aren't really into the whole subscription over the internet thing. Most people want a brick-and-mortar rental place. My local Blockbuster didn't have much in the way of anime last time I was there and it was off on its own. On the other hand, when I was in California (in the OC), the blockbuster there had the anime all mixed in with the regular hollywood releases. They were on the 'new releases' wall nonetheless. This is what a real step in the right direction would be. Not only that but it would go a long way towards slowly lulling people into accepting anime as more than 'that cartoon thing that only weirdos watch', albeit on a somewhat subconscious level. I'm just making a quick post of a few thoughts that I had. I'm in no way justifying fansubbing if that's what it sounds like. I just think that people need to realize that being able to see some anime on TV, and having a place that rents more than a handful of anime titles on DVD is a relatively new thing. Some people are still tied to the 'old ways' and don't really want to change. They will probably continue to justify fansubbing until it dies out as the rest of the world moves on to better things. |
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Kazuki-san
Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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That all sounds well and good, but you do realize that most fansubbers these days were not around during the old days don't you? They're mostly college kids,(who got into anime relatively recently) which is why quite a few have a problem translating correctly. |
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TsukasaGr
Posts: 6 |
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I think some of us are missing the true problem here, which is quite easy for others to grasp: The Japanese are, of course, absolutely correct, and I wish them well. But. Without fansubs, the European manga/anime community will actually die.
There is absolutely _no_ support -or even respect- for anime viewers here. I have seen DVDs in Europe that cost more than the whole series in America, and this is not a joke. I think there are many people who can testify to this. Also, Viz no longer ships to Europe, as they are obviously not interested in the small market here. That is great for them, but I would like my anime and manga, thank you. And if the companies are not supporting my hobby, believe me, I will try to find someone who will. So, a big "thank you" to all the fansubbers. I know a lot of people in Europe who want to thank you too. Without you, we would only know about the -already mentioned before- bootleged hentai dvds and the 4-5 overpriced anime DVDs. I don't think I (or anyone) could manage to pay 350-400 euros for a 26 episode series. Without you, there would be no anime community here. And you want to know something, without you there wouldn't be an anime community in the States either.  Please show some respect to the people that feed you, people.
I totally agree that fansubs have become almost obsolete now. Hell, even Kodocha is licenced nowdays! But. Even if there wasn't the Europe problem (and, generally I believe, the "non-America" problem, as I don't really think the situation is better elsewhere), there exist other problems. Companies: Please do NOT destroy (and believe me, I would really like to use some heavier word here, but alas...) the series' you licence. Why on Earth would I like to submit myself to an -overpriced here- DVD release with subpar audio (there are _many_ series with absolutely horrible japanese audio, I don't know why that happens, but the English just sound better. Maybe they are saving space on the DVD or something...), or with terribe treatment of the translation (I happen to speak a little Japanese myself, and I can understand when a translation is _not_ a translation, but a free, and usually bad adaptation), and worst of all, deleted scenes and censorship, of witch I am not even told about (I won't even _start_ with Kare Kano. That got me so mad that I almost destroyed the American DVDs). I think that's the worst. And we won't even mention those horrible yellow, oversised subtitles...
And even if all those were not true, I think it is still pretty much illegal -and costly- to buy DVDs from America, region codes and all. I'm sorry if I sound a bit dissapointed, and of course there are exeptions to those examples, but I have rarely bought an original Anime DVD I actually enjoyed as much as the fansub. Usually it is simply not as good a job as the fansub. And believe me, I _like_ to pay for the stuf I enjoy, and I have bought a lot of anime over the years. (I can't wait to buy Princess Tutu! I really hope they make a good job on that one.). But, pretty please people, a little respect for our hard earned money and for the many wonderful anime series you licence.
I'm really sorry for the long post, any mistakes I made writing it, and if I offended some of you by my views. It was really not intended. But before these problems are resolved, really people, think twice before condemning so easily what you yesterday deified. Fansubs are not obsolete yet. America is not the whole of the world. As for the Japanese...if the European market _really_ does not interest you, what can I say. If you won's support us, at least leave us alone. 
PS: PGSM rules! Please licence it! Congradulations to all the people working on it!
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jay saenz
 Posts: 81 Location: Costa Rica |
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I ve been reading the first replys to this post and I think that American people often forget that theres an anime fandom beyond the south border that depend on the fansub to get new anime.
I talked some months ago to Ryosuke Takahashi and Eiji Sachida from Sunrise Studios, during a trip that they made to Costa Rica, and we talked about the piracy problem. Here in Latin American a large part of the anime fandom depend on piracy (even in the major anime shops in the country you can find pirat products). For fans in my country spend $30 per DVD (with only 3 episodes) is usually a rip off. Our mail service is a mess and very few people take the risk of buy online, thats why fansubs are the best way to costarican people to get high quality new anime. I hope that the Anime Industry one day will include Latin America as an important market. Until that day piracy will rule south of the border. |
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pyr3sayz
Posts: 20 |
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I think that most of the 'new recruits' so to speak are just holding onto the old fansub dogma. Part of the reason is that college students are poor for the most part and won't be able to afford anime DVDs like they would want to until they are out of college and have a job. But, by then they are out of the 'demographic.' This is the same problem that the RIAA is/was having. They are trying to sell their product targeted towards kids and college students, both of which have little or no income to blow on all kinds of music. The solution that the RIAA seem to be going for is to make the colleges have some sort of deal with an online music-downloading service that becomes part of the students' tuition or computing package. This could work for anime as well. Maybe not downloading, I don't think that video downloading will be accepted as a legit service in the near future. But some of the online rental places like netflix or such could offer some sort of discount to the colleges and make a subscription part of the tuition or an optional part of the tuition. I don't think they should force it on people like the RIAA wants to do. Though hiding it in the tuition could be a good thing too. If they *have* to pay for it, they will probably use it, but if they have the option, some might just not take the option and download anyways. |
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Kazuki-san
Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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That's not a very good excuse. Until recently, I was also a college student, and yet I managed to buy Anime when I wanted to. If you prioritize, then you'll have money for what you want. Of course, it's hard to buy Anime if you have 10 credit cards, a new car, and are thousands of dollars in debt  . There are plenty of other people on this site that I know who are in college or were recently, and yet they all could manage buy buy DVDs, maybe not 5 a week, but they could certainly keep up with new series.
By the way pyr3sayz, just to make sure you're aware, my comments aren't directed at you. I realize you were making a broad, general statement. 
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Sword of Whedon
Posts: 683 |
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Not true. Standard pricing is 35% off MSRP, a formula EVERYONE follows unless there is some special purchasing deal worked out. |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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I guess it just depends on the company... SoW. Geneon really is known for sticking it to retailers because they appear to offer the least amount off their MSRP (which I believe is about 25% off) You'll notice that at Best Buy, for instance, that the discount isn't off as much for a DVD of Last Exile as it is for a DVD of RahXephon. It's just a matter of company politics, and seeing how much money they can squeeze out of their products.
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