Forum - View topicNEWS: Japan Fights Piracy Abroad
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Kazuki-san
 Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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You may not think it has anything to do with price, and in your situation it may not, but for many, that's exactly what it is. As to the "high quality fansubs out there".. yeah there are a few, but there are many many more with not anywhere near accurate translations and that are riddled with spelling and grammer errors. What good does having nice fonts do if what you're reading is not accurate? |
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nagashi
Posts: 78 Location: michigan |
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As opposed to all of the adv titles I bought last year. The industry is not immune to grammatical errors. At least with the fansubs I can find a group that puts a copy out without them. I won't be buying an adv release any time soon.
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cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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nagashi
Posts: 78 Location: michigan |
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We disagree. I *like* fansub fonts. And if you don't like one group's fonts, you can always find a group whose fonts match your tastes. or better yet, start your own!
In a world without fansubs, you don't have that option. You don't have that choice. |
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Kazuki-san
Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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Yes, you can have awesome looking fonts.. however the words those fonts form are being written by college students who are still learning the language as they are translating for you.. hmm... professional translation.. cool fonts... (yes I know that this is not the case with every fansub group, there are good ones out there, however these days they are few and far between.) And the ever wonderful choice between.. supporting the industry that makes the shows you are watching.. and ripping them off...
And no, I'm not anti-fansub. I download unlicensed anime, but I don't download anything that's licensed. And I NEVER EVER download an R1 rip. And I will always go out and buy the series when it comes out here, unless it just absolutely sucked, which has not happened to me yet. Yes, I could start my own fansub group with even more kicka** fonts, but the translation would, for the most part be what I decided I thought they were saying. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10425 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Umm, its the Japanese companies that were said to be possibly going after fansubers in the near future. Will you hate the creators of a show for going after people who are doing things with the show that they don't aprove of? |
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Erufu
 Posts: 191 |
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Wow! Either you only dl 1 or 2 series, or you have a lot more money than most of us here do. No offense, but I find it hard to believe that you buy everything you dl once it hits the US unless you are dling obscure titles or you are only dling 1 or 2 series. And, I am still bitter about the Chobits DVDs I bought and the lines of translation kept jumping up and down when ever they translated a song. Is it that hard to watch it and figure out that that is annoying and you could put the song text up at the top of the screen? |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10425 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Now that the second part of the Otakon report is up, with the State of the Industry panel report, this should make more sense to people.
Basically, Asian Bootleggers are downloading fansubs, burning them to DVD and selling them all over Asia (with many of them being imported to the United States). So, while it certainly isn't the intention of fansubbers, their hard work is being used in ways that hurts the anime industry. Not just the domestic anime industry, but the actual industry back in Japan. This is nothing new, it happened back in the VHS fansub days too, but it's a much bigger problem in the internet / DVD era. Fansub distribution has always been illegal, but companies (north American and Japanese alike) have always permitted it because they believed it did little harm and provided some actual benefits. But, if they come to a point where they believe that the harm outweighs the good (regardless of good intentions) what possible reason can you see for them to continue turning a blind eye to something that is illegal? [opinion]Unlike some, I don't want to see fansubbing stopped, but something has to be done to minimize access to fansubs. And unless an effective way to do that (Bittorrent seed removal has prooven completely ineffective) is found, killing fansubs may be the lesser evil. What's more, let's take a look at the pro's of fansubs, and see which one's are actually valid 1 - Provides people with early access to anime. Valid? No, Patience is a virtue, and while you wait, there's plenty of anime coming out right now on DVD that you can watch. 2 - Provides fans with a glimpse of an anime that will never be released in North America Valid? It would be if it were actually true. 95% of anime end up licensed these days, and most fansubbers chose to ignore the remaining 5% and instead fansub the most popular shows that will obviously be licensed (or in many cases, are licensed). 3 - Provides Overseas fans with access to anime that isn't licensed or distributed in their country. Valid? Sorta. You can't help feel bad for fans in countries where the anime landscape is extremely barren, but fact is, if they can read English fansubs, they can read the subtitles on imported R1 DVDs. Unfortunately, importing R1 DVDs is expensive (along with buying the appropriate DVD player) and rentals are extremely hard to come by. But (see #4) 4 - Its Cheaper than Buying Valid? Not at all, avoiding legitimately paying for something you use/digest/consume/etc.. , even if its overpriced, is theft. 5 - Its a good method to preview anime Valid? Not so much. Most people have easy access to places that rent anime, either brick and mortar, or online. And anime is on TV. 6 - The press use fansubs to provide previews. Valid? Sorta. It is a valid use of fansubs, but we have other methods. Companies provide us with screeners long before the DVD comes out, we can hire preview writers that speak Japanese, and some Japanese companies even provide us with in-house made subtitled copies sometimes. So its a valid use, but we won't won't be significantly affected if fansubs were stopped. 7 - You boycott American Studios Valid? Not at all. If you're boycotting a company, that means you don't buy their product, it doesn't mean you steal it. Boycotting implies some sacrifice by the person who is boycotting. 8 - fansubs provide free publicity Valid? Yes. Fansubs do provide free publicity, but there are so many other methods to provide that free publicity that its hard to argue that the death of fansubs would have any significant detrimental affect on sales due to the loss of that one source publicity. In the end, the foreign market is the only group that I find has a legitimate reason for wanting fansubs. As long as they are actually thinking of buying anime, fansubs offer them the only method available of previewing the anime before importing an expensive R1 DVD. Everyone else that cries, and whines, and bitches about fansubs (because they either can't wait a little while for something to be released, or they can't be bothered to go through the hassle and minor expense involved in renting it to preview it) is just being selfish These aren't valid reasons to complain. Despite all this, as I said above, I still want to see fansubs continue, not for any tangible benefit that they provide, but rather, because they make fans happy, and that's what this is all about in the end, isn't it? But something has to be done to limit the fansubs from spreading so much. Fansub groups need to think about this. Slow down the release rate, don't sub entire series, use file formats that expire or require licensing (yes, I know this is unlikely), or figure something else out that will limit the number of people that see fansubs. Unfortunately, I honestly don't expect any group to take measures that would limit other people from enjoying and benefiting from their work... [/opinion] |
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cyrax777
Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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you know the industry really needs to stop screaming about how the sky is falling.
if they really want to crack down on it go after the raw providers not the users of said raws (ie fansubbers) Yeah i know that kinda sounded like a war of drugs reference didn't intend it to. The market was always losing a ton of money to the other asian countrys hell so is hollywood when it comes to bootlegs. Hopefully as we become more and more wired Ill be able to pop up a sat and get anime direct from it subbed in english from japan for a small fee simular to pay cable. |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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I've seen a fair number of bootlegs, and as such, I just can't see this as being a legitimate argument. (The bootlegs in turn that I've had in possession were donated to bootleg panels.) The boots I've seen have either been A)R1 rips, or B) "in-house" subs. The argument might count for something, but the in house subs frequently have countless grammar/spelling errors and make almost every major fansubber out there seem like the work is professional, comparatively speaking. I'd agree that there would be a big problem if the bootleggers were just downloading the files and slapping them onto a DVD, but as of yet, I haven't seen anything concrete to convice me this is actually happening. While the potential to do it is there, and it would certainly become more problematic if it did, I still feel it's not a good idea to provide what appears to be less-than-accurate information to the people you are trying to convince. Until shown otherwise, I'm going to continue to take that argument with a grain of salt.
I'm only going to disagree with you slightly. Personally, I find the statement cliche, and I consider patience overrated when it comes to trivial things. Some things are worth waiting for, but I'd rather use the rest of my time in more worthwhile and constructive ways than waiting for DVD "X" to come out. Of course, I still do anticipate certain releases, and I wouldn't turn to a bootlegger in hopes to finishing out a series, but my point is that I think both points are worthless, being that watching it vs. not watching it isn't what I'd call a "life changing" event. (for things applying to real life, that's when patience really is worth something, IMNSHO) - The rest of your points are well said.
I am inclined to agree with you here. There do need to be changes if the fansub community is to survive. Even if the problems aren't happening like Matt Greenfield is stating, fansub groups can no longer stay under the radar, since the potential for the problem is too obvious to ignore. |
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CrackaJax
 Posts: 250 Location: Mount Olympus, Syracuse University |
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Sorry, I forgot that the distributors always put some extra on it. I believe that the people who make the DVDs sell them 1/2 of MSRP to distributors. I'm no economics major, so I'm not always right. I've just got my dad to explain these things to me. |
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Kazuki-san
Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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No, I download many series, however once they are licensed, I hold off downloading anymore of that series. Once the DVDs start coming out, I start buying them. It's not very hard to do, since the releases are scattered and series debut at different times. I also never said I run off the second they hit the shelves and buy them, but I do buy them. |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10425 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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And I'm going to disagree with you as well. Personally, I don't find trivial matters are worth being in any sort of rush to get before they become legitimately available. If this was something really important, I could understand running out to get them by whatever means possible, but its just entertainment. And its not like you'd be sitting there waiting for them. I'm pretty sure if you chose to wait till Season 1 of xyz came out on DVD, you wouldn't spend every waking moment thinking about it. So, in short, I'm sure that if you waited, you'd still be doing more constructive things with your time than "waiting." -t |
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beelzebozo
 Posts: 308 Location: Aurora, Colorado |
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That's OK, it's just that the suggestion that it's the retailer's fault got under my skin. If the cost of the product would drop, I'm more than happy to drop the retail price. There are some posts that make it sound like it's evil for us to make any profit at all. But it costs money to run a brick & mortar shop,(and you don't earn any money on product that doesn't move), plus I'd like to actually earn a paycheck one of these days so I can buy some anime for myself (or at least get the anime back that I donated to the rental section.... bitch,whine,moan,oh I'm such a martyr...  ).
And about the whole "bootleggers using fansubs", I have to agree that I have never seen a fansub used on a bootleg DVD. They may have used the script, but since the titles are usually able to be turned off, they definitely didn't just download and burn. Those that I've seen burned into the movie have all been in-house productions. I'm wondering if the American companies think it's still the 90's when VHS bootlegs were made with fansubs. The US companies need to go after the BOOTLEGGERS first. Send a couple people to jail and that should send a message to both the bootleg-selling retailers and the anime community exactly how legal these knockoffs are. The harder the US companies go after fansubbers, the more ire they will raise with fandom and the more likely people will download their anime rather than buying it out of sheer spite. You can say fans are shooting themselves in the foot by doing it, but in shooting themselves, they also take the "evil" US company down with them and I know a few people who would love to see Matt Greenfield on the streets of Houston with a sign saying "Will distribute anime for food". Carrot, not stick. |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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Well, my point is that it really shouldn't matter when I watch the series, as long as in the end, I buy the legitimate product. It doesn't particularily matter to me overall when I wind up watching it, but if it's available to me to do so, I'll watch it. For me personally, patience has nothing to do with it. If it's something that really matters to me, only then do I find patience to really mean something. I guess I was just trying to say that I don't find either argument compelling as it doesn't really make a difference on how I do things in the end. When it comes down to it, I buy 90% of the fansubs I've watched. Perhaps that's why I can sleep at night. 
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