Forum - View topicNEWS: Dentsu to Create Industry's 1st Think Tank to Study Otaku
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CareyGrant
Posts: 453 |
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No, it's funny you think that it isn't, because that's exactly what it means: more tightly focused checklist anime and manga. The highly profitable in Japan "moe, loli, pedo, bullshit" doesn't sell to a mainstream audience in the West.
1) Since when has the Japanese anime and manga industries cared about "the world," when it's the homegrown Otaku--spending more on collectibles, media and junk, than they do on food--who are bled dry to keep the industry propped up? The industry already panders to them, almost exclusively. 2) And since when have the tastemakers in Japan vs. The World ever agreed with each other? For every surprising mega-success like Pokemon, how many thousands of shows fail spectacularly to have the same impact commercially in the West or World as they do in Japan, or vice versa. What hits outside of Japan is a happy accident/fluke--our culture and tastes are too disimilar. To me, I see this as an exercise in futility. To reach the kind of success in foreign markets that would cause Japan to sit up and take notice (assuming they aren't marketing to kids) would mean designing content for a Western/World market, which history has shown, bombs in Japan because it isn't some pandering, checklist anime/manga. Knowing that, I stand by my prediction: a tighter focus on Japanese otaku and more checklist anime/manga. |
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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That just leads to redundant entertainment that doesn't stand out against each other. It would be like the American comic industry. |
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RyanSaotome
 Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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That may be true, but the anime industry couldn't survive if it didn't make this pandering stuff. Its safe since there isn't a large budget and its it will likely sell, and has a much higher overall ceiling in sales than other stuff. They either have to completely change the price structure to make non otaku stuff profitable (and doing this is a massive risk, because if it doesn't work the entire industry might fold from mass losses), or you gotta focus on your main fanbase. For an industry that isn't very strong, you can't take big risks so focusing on the otaku is the way to go. |
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ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
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This assumes you know what the otaku think tank will agree upon. Which would also mean Dentsu shouldn't bother with this study, instead they should just hire you.
And you're under the delusion that statement is a meaningful revelation. Japanese shows pander to Japanese interests...shocking I know. Last edited by ArsenicSteel on Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Banden
 Posts: 140 |
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Can we ban this one trick pony troll account yet? This guy's been going on like this for like 4 years. It's pretty old. |
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RyanSaotome
Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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I've never understood the whole "They should make anime for Westerners" mindset. The reason why I like anime is because its stuff you can't see anywhere else because Japanese culture is so much different. If I wanted to see some drama or action show, theres plenty of it on TV here... why should anime emulate that instead of being its own thing? I can't see the moe and ecchi stuff anywhere else, which is what draws me to anime.
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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There's currently 59 anime airing on Japanese television right now airing new episodes. Please do me a favor and point out which shows you feel quality as this. As I see it, maybe 2 or 3 can be classified as 'moe' and that's debatable. It'd be nice if people could actually name the shows that are this 'moe crap' rather than making sweeping generalizations for a change. It'd make their opinions easier to take seriously and give off the fact they actually know anything about current anime.
Pretty much. I think it just comes down to ignorance and entitlement. |
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Apollo-kun
 Posts: 1213 Location: City 7, Macross 7 |
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Looks like "Welcome to the NHK" was way ahead of it's time, then. Creepy.
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14761 |
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Remember, Dentsu is a giant advertising company - of course they want to know people's preferences, like Facebook and Google do.
And formula, formula works, for a time. Even Disney had a formula that served them well over a decade. 
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Rensie
Posts: 251 |
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Anime and manga are intended for japanese audience non the west, the fact you download fansub doesn't mean they try to aim to this market.
This make no sense at all, why they should design what foreigners like? Every country has a different taste and culture, so i don't see the point in make anime only for westerers. West is not the main market of anime and manga. West is a non-factor in the end and shouldn't be because if is be they have to make anime with western morals, aka crappy and brainless animation like american cartoons. No thanks. |
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Eternal September
 Posts: 24 |
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I agree with you, but I already tried to prove it this way, and it doesn't work. They will just start defining "moe" in such a generic way, that everything with young people with large eyes will fall into it. Of course, with this definition, pretty much everything since Astro Boy would be moe, save for a few grimdark badass series. It's essentially just another word for "attractive style by japanese standards", but that is about as much of an ominous trend, as beautiful actresses appearing in movies. If you point this out, they try to move the goalpost to something more specific than that, and they end up with a premise of K-on, but that format is so rare, that sports series, or even mecha series are more common than that, so why aren't THEY accused of threatening the industry, and being otaku-pandering? If you point this out, they retort that the K-on format is more threatening because it's elements creep into every genre, that's just falling back to the first argument, that pretty much everything attractive is moe. |
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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Well, it's probably best to just lay all the cards on the table then.
Game and Sports Anime (15) Battle Spirits H (Cards) Cardfight Vanguard (Cards) Chihayafuru (Cards) Cross Fight B-Daman (Marbles) Danball Senki W (Tabletop Miniature Figures) Digimon X-Ros Wars Hunters (Monster Battling) Duel Masters Victory (Cards) Inazuma Go (Soccer) Knight in the Area (Soccer) Metal Fight Beyblade 4D (Tops) New Prince of Tennis (Tennis) Phi Brain (Puzzles) Pocket Monsters: Best Wishes (Monster Battling) Pretty Rhythm Aurora Dream (Figure Skating) Yu-Gi-Oh ZeXal (Cards) Mecha (6) Aquarion Evol Guilty Crown Gundam Age Lagrange Last Exile, Fam the Silver Wing Senki Zesshou Symphogear (No, I don't care if suits don't count as mecha) Long-Running Boys Anime (10) Beelzebub Bleach Detective Conan Fairy Tail Gintama Hunter x Hunter Naruto Shippuden One Piece Sket Dance Toriko Long-Running Girls Anime (5) Smile Precure Jewelpet Sunshine Tamagotchi! Tottoko Hamtaro Dechu! Mainichi Kaa-san Action/Drama/Horror (6) Another Black Rock Shooter Brave10 Mirai Nikki Persona 4 Shakugan no Shana III Comedy/Drama/Romance (8) Ano Natsu Bakuman II Natsume's Book of Friends Daily Lives of High School Boys Recorder and Randoseru Amagami SS+ Kill Me Baby Papakiki Shorts (3) Gokujyo (Comedy) Poyopoyo (Comedy) Sengoku Paradise Kiwami (Comedy) Other (6) Tantei Opera Milky Holmes II Inu X Boku Secret Service High School D'X'D Zero no Tsukaima Moretsu Pirates Nisemonogatari Everything that's currently airing in Japan (minus the Untouchable Quartet that is Sazae-san, Chibi Maruko-chan, Doraemon, and Crayon Shin-Chan) Other category exists because I'm not sure what to label those under (and even some under action and comedy seem shoehorned for me. I generally dislike categorizing anime since I think it unfairly stereotypes series into some preconception. Like Nisemonogatari; you could call it 'comedy' but it's simply so much more than just a 'comedy' series) But still, even if we agreed those last 6 were "moe pandering" (which I wouldn't) 6 out of 60+ series is kind of silly to complain about, unless you're so close-minded you don't want any anime you don't like to exist, which kills the whole appeal of anime; variety and the fact there's something for everyone. But yeah, with this list, I can't see why anyone would freak out even if Dentsu makes those 'evil moe anime', hardly an invasion or takeover of what we have. If you want to complain about anything hogging the numbers, try the sports/game anime, or the long-running boys stuff (but even then, you got lots of variety in those 'genres') |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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@TitanXL
Thank you for that. I've been trying to point that out too, but am too lazy to categorize a list every. single. time. whiners/haters bring it up. Likewise the whole "moe or fanservice sells/dominates/flood charts" no, it doesn't, somehow people don't see how many fail (same with any other genre). |
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Eternal September
Posts: 24 |
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*snickering*
Also, it might be worth pointing out, that neither these last 6, nor any of the more fanservice-ridden from the earlier groups, are excessively popular compared to the others. Despite the stereotype that "sex sells", and that "those creepy otaku only care about shallow pandering", in practice, the most financially successful series are also the ones that western fans tend to respect (whether or not they have fanservice), while boob series, eroge adaptations, generic cute-girls-slice-of-life series, and shana-clone light novel adaptations, are all trending towards the bottom of the sales lists. |
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Ryvius213
Posts: 291 |
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Although excessive pandering isn't necessarily the best way to go about it, I would also like to say that excess pandering rarely actually succeeds, and if they do, it's usually a mild success where the creators invested in a niche audience and got just that.(i.e. High School DxD) Regardless of similar elements between successful series, most of those similarities are only superficial at best, or are subtle things here and there that appeal to audience preferences, not so much "give these characters big eyes and people will like them! Oh, and maybe a harem too!". Market studies are never that simple, and most of the time actually seek out why certain elements appeal to people, not what those elements are. And the reasons are almost always relatively abstract concepts that give a lot of room for creativity.
I'm starting to get the impression that people think KyoAni represents the majority of the anime industry, or that generic "moe loli bullshit" succeeds all the time in Japan. But that term is not only insulting; it is also painfully broad. A lot of the times, the moe elements are superficial at best, and say little to nothing about the actual plot or pieces that go into constructing the series. Don't try to tell me that Angel Beats! and Strike Witches are generic, or worse, similar to one another. I would even argue that while some superficial elements can give creators a slight boost, it's actually up to the development team whether a series succeeds or not, not a generic checklist of cliches to follow for free money. Do note that some of the vastly successful anime, despite having moe elements, are also quite unlike any of their competitors the vast majority of the time. It's probably not possible to say that any two successful "moe loli" series are really similar. Also, don't try to make yourself sound like the victim by saying they don't make anime you like anymore. In truth, only people with relatively(correction: really) broad tastes are really happy season after season. If you're demanding more series that appeal to the mainstream, I'd hate to say it, but you're probably not in the mainstream. Believe it or not, series that are completely out of this world and super deep or "Eva-esque" aren't mainstream at all, and the more successful ones all have relatively mundane elements that garner mainstream interest. Last edited by Ryvius213 on Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:51 am; edited 2 times in total |
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