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ANNCast - Viewers Like You: I Think Therefore I Rant

Megiddo wrote:

That's because yuri is mostly Class S stuff about girls in middle/high school feeling affection for their upperclasswoman. There is very little yuri focusing on the sexual nature of the relationship, but a ton dealing with the progress from friends to more-than-friends. I'm not sure I would say that yuri is more 'serious' than yaoi, but the latter definitely has a much larger concentration on the sexual nature of a relationship, and much less about that transition from just friends to more than that.

I've found that I can't stand Class S yuri for the most part any more due to the culture of Japan. In Japan, it's accepted for these kinds of relationships to happen between high school girls because it helps keep them "pure" until they get older, "grow up," marry, and have kids. They're expected to grow out of that stage and become the "dutiful, supporting wife." So if the series doesn't end up with a full-fledged relationship (no, sex doesn't need to occur or be shown... I just want acknowledgement of the relationship, maybe even a kiss, nothing more than most heterosexual relationships) I can't stand it, because all I can think about is the expectations and how these characters are likely to take a man later. Screw that.

And I can't stand a majority of yaoi either, once again due to the culture. I hate the seme/uke stereotypes, which reflect the traditional gender roles - one being the leader/protector and the other being supporter. I'm tired of these reminders of heterosexuality (even if that's not necessarily the intention) within the homosexual shows I'm watching, yuri or yaoi. I also hate the rape, but that's an entirely different monster.

I do appreciate yaoi and yuri for one thing though - they really helped me through a developmental time in my life and become more open to such relationships (and come to terms with my own sexuality). Even if they are cliched and filled with a lot of the things I can't stand now, at least they, y'know, actually acknowledge those relationships, and in a fairly positive manner (sans rape and abuse). Just seeing them helped. Was I naive for a while and thought, "oh, so this is how homosexual relationships go"? Yes, but with experience (both in life and fandom) I was able to learn what were falsehoods and what was fanservice. And frankly, that's what I think many children lack: exposure. Parents want to hide them from the world. My parents did at the time (although they have grown with me on my journey by accepting me as I am... I'm certain that they still have misgivings and a few personal feelings on the matter, but we all love one another to accept each other).

I kinda agree with Zac though that I see the West having more exposure sooner to homosexual relationships. As I've grown up, I've seen more and more boundaries being pushed. Of course, since I don't live in Japan, I lack exposure to the other side so I can't make an extremely well-informed opinion.

If you have a problem with it, you're either full of hate or emotionally immature.

But I also don't watch yaoi for entertainment. I don't like it. Does that make me full of hate? I don't think so. Does it make me emotionally immature? I certainly hope not! And I think that the podcasters should have considered other opinions rather than bashing people who have issues with homosexual relationships in their anime or manga.

But I also don't watch yaoi for entertainment. I don't like it. Does that make me full of hate? I don't think so. Does it make me emotionally immature? I certainly hope not! And I think that the podcasters should have considered other opinions rather than bashing people who have issues with homosexual relationships in their anime or manga.

If your attempting to make any kind of intelligent argument about your point of view. Stopping to make a comment like anyone against this are "A bunch of uneducated hicks or republicans". You at that point become the guy that your complaining about who just runs in and is against it because he can be. Your showing your own prejudice and uneducated opinion on the matter and it is in no way a positive discussion. In fact this was not a discussion in anyway but simply political preaching on your part and to dedicate around 20 minutes to this seems completely inappropriate.

The old "if you're not tolerant of my intolerance, you're the one who's really intolerant!" thing.

Your argument doesn't make any sense, by the way. I don't become intolerant just because I list the people who are likely to be intolerant on this issue. The "Republicans" thing was kind of a joke, I guess, but they are largely the demographic that has the biggest and most outspoken problem with same-sex relationships in this country and the biggest roadblock toward passing civil rights legislation. That isn't political preaching, it's basic observable fact. The rest of the conversation had nothing to do with politics at all.

There are zero legitimate caveats to this discussion, in my view. There is no legitimate "other side" to the argument that doesn't involve intolerance and bigotry. If you have some moral or ethical objection to same-sex romance in a book, you're a bigot. It is absolutely no different than if you "just had a problem with" mixed-race relationships in a book.

Well, I have a problem with yaoi. :/ I am not full of hate, nor do I consider myself emotionally immature. I have issues with it because it's against my beliefs.

I am not going to walk up to the first gay person I see and tell him he's a terrible person, because that's not right. I believe that, as a Christian (no hate here please!)

That is your opinion on the topic and its fine to have a opinion. However, that was only one of many names you called someone with a different opinion. Name calling regardless of your opinion does not in any way make your opinion more valid or help with your argument. Instead it quickly distracts from what your trying to say and makes you sound like everything your accusing others of being on the matter. I get what your opinion is ,I'm not even saying you shouldn't state your opinion, but if you want someone to take you seriously then learn to state it without using names and trying to put down others its not like doing so makes what your trying to say any more or less valid.

No one will think your a bad person for not watching yaoi if you don't like it, but if in the back of your mind you're thinking "this is inherently wrong" whenever the topic is mentioned, that is a little hateful.

You say you're not full of hate or emotionally immature. So prove it to us. Explain why you have a problem with homosexuality ("it's against my beliefs" isn't a reason) and we'll see where you're coming from.

You fight intolerance. You don't respect it.

Zac wrote:

You fight intolerance. You don't respect it.

You don't fight intolerance unless your own way of life is in danger.

If you're a liberal, that is the principle.

Intolerance has nothing to do with someone's opinions being wrong. If you disagree with people who are against homosexuality, you don't call them intolerant or bigots, you state what is wrong with their views.

Zac wrote:

You fight intolerance. You don't respect it.

You don't fight intolerance unless your own way of life is in danger.

I'll keep calling it like I see it, thanks.

You fight intolerance always because it's [expletive] wrong.