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An incestuous cliffhanger; I approve.

Hmm. Well, it's not like the ____-monogatari Universe was ever loathe to pander to our more salacious appetites but I think this is pushing it. Really? There can't be one instance of Araragi helping to cure a female that isn't absolutely redolent of sexual tension ... even with his own sister? Sigh, whatever.

Of course not. It wouldn't be a harem/male-fantasy if every girl wasn't all crazy for Araragi.

I don't think Karen is "all crazy" for Araragi, nor do I think he feels any lust for her. The sexual overlay is all objective and external - but it's still there. It's not even that I'm prudish about the indirect wincest, it's just that I get tired of any gong that gets rung too frequently. Change the pitch up, man. And the show had a real opportunity to do so considering we are dealing with his sisters. But no.

You're right. It's perfectly natural for a 15 year old girl to disrobe (actually ask the brother to disrobe them) and have their brother wipe them down with a damp cloth. It must all be external.

My point was that, in my view, I was not detecting any desire on the part of either character for the other. Despite that, clearly the scene was intended to titillate viewers, ergo my point that the sexual overlay was external and objective. Goody for you if you saw things differently.

His sister seemed to take on some Mayoi traits for a bit, even the part where she tried say how mature she was by her development was similar to something Mayoi said earlier.

I guess I have finally gotten a bit frustrated now, my patience is running a little thin, but at least we have seen the incident, the villain's "motive" and incest scenes. The last bit I can understand people's issues, but I saw it more of them justbrother doing what he should, and hey I watched Yosuga no Sora.

I grow a bit uneasy of Tsubasa, about why she wanted to be friends with the sisters, and that she must have sent Karen in knowing that it was more than normal. What really could have been solved with violence. Villain's talk was easily ennough to earn him the title of big jackass, really spoiler[openly talking about ripping kids off, apparently taking money then framing. And put Karen helpless and going through wallet grabbing all her money, leaving only what she needed for a train, but taking the change anyway because she had a ticket.] It is almost laugheble douchebaggery.

Is anyone else interpreting Nisemonogatari as a self-reflexive, satirical allegory?

An allegory for what, pray tell.

Last edited by GeminiDS85 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

Let’s look at the layers and see if anyone else comes to the same conclusion as me.

1. What does Nisemonogatari mean in Japanese? For easy access, I posted the definition of nisemono on the first page of this thread.

2. What is the name of the genre that would best describe Nisemonogatari?

3. How do the answers to questions 1 and 2 relate to the perception of anime? (Think criticism)

4. How do the answers to questions 1, 2, and 3 relate to Nisemonogatari?

5. After developing a context from the answers of questions 1-4, think about a lot of the self-reflexive, metaphorical conversations between characters in the narrative that directly relate to this newly developed contextual insight. (In particular think about the content of the conversations between Koyomi and Kanbaru in episode two and between Karen and Kaiki in episode five)

6. What is the Fire Sisters' mission?

7. How does the Fire Sisters' mission relate to the deductions you came to after answering questions 1-5?

8. Yell out loud: NisiOisin you pretentious fop!!!!

Why couldn't you have just reposted the definition instead of telling us to find it on the first page?

Last thing: Just in case anyone is curious, this is the definition of nisemono from the denshi jisho: 偽物 -- spurious article; forgery; counterfeit; imitation; sham.

While I don't doubt there is a deeper meaning, doesn't it mainly just refer to the stated role of the villain as a con man?

And whether or not it has deeper meaning, in a story structure, having Koyomi face off against a weak, counterfeit, villain in his first altercation after Meme Oshino leaves makes sense, it's a standard learning curve.

GeminiDS85, for my part, I'm at a loss as to what genre you would classify a show like this in. Sitting Around and Talking? Why not just say what you think, rather than turning it into an assignment? I can sort of see your point, but I just don't want to reward this behavior, so instead, I'll just think you're totally wrong.

And frankly, I don't think it takes anywhere near 8 steps to come to the conclusion that NisiOisin is an avatar of pretentiousness.

The genre is undoubtedly a harem, what with there only being one main male character and a bunch of female characters. Probably a 'supernatural harem' would be the best way to describe it.

But you see, for that to be an allegory, then the Fire Sisters' mission (to defend justice!) would be completely against the whole 'harem=counterfeit show' thing. Karen would not let Koyomi disrobe her and wipe her down and the obvious soon-to-come Tsukihi/Koyomi fanservice scenes would not occur either for the same reason.

Unless what you're getting at is Kaiki's conversation about money and how the 'to defend justice' sisters compromise their principles for the sake of money and thus get swooped up in the harem. But that wouldn't be an allegory. Because there would be no moral.

Nah, this is just NisiOisin writing a bunch of fanservice and people lapping it up because fanservice sells. Look at Miniskirt Pirates. In 5 episodes that show has circled around Nise in terms of plot progression 10-fold, and yet it was that show a lot of people were complaining about in terms of 'slowness'. Why? Well there isn't a chick taking off her clothes and having some sensual banter. People by-and-large will accept that in 5 episodes of Nise the only thing that has occurred is that Karen has been stung by a bee and now has a fever. It doesn't seem slow to most because they're not focusing on the story. And I'm not saying that people have to, they're free to enjoy whatever and however they want, but it's certainly something I've noticed recently.

People "accept" Nise because there's a stained glass window in the bathroom, an unfinished zeppelin in the bedroom, a stack of broken ladders in the living room and Karen met the villain in a room decorated in Black and White optical illusions and geometrical mufti-colored citronella candles.
Okay, the suggestive service is a factor but if this show didn't look like a work of art in just about every frame, including the fan-service monents, it would not be tolerated. Hem Zemi had constant service and mostly consisted of people talking in rooms about taboo subjects, I don't see lines of people clamoring for R1 releases of it.

Is that why Sekirei was one of the best selling anime for FUNimation? Because it had some kind of godly art? It's not like Nise/Bake is the first to use such an avant garde style of animation. It was done in Mononoke (which looks much better in my personal opinion). It was also done to some extent in Gankutsuou. Yuasa uses a very different art style in nearly all his works (Kemonozume, Kaiba, Tatami Galaxy, and Mind Game) yet I don't see a lot of people clamoring for their release.

Come on FUNimation. Release Tatami Galaxy. You know you want to!

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