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ANNCast - Ar-moe-geddon

Open question: why are you ignoring that some of us, like myself, Fencedude, HitokiriShadow, etc, are moe fans? It's entirely possible to like some of the same anime you do, experience the same social forces, and yet disagree with you. Also, it was certain comments in this thread that forced the conversation--not ours and others' reaction to them.

If i do recall there was one episode of the talk where woman where laughing and cheering for the fact some guy's Johnson got chopped off. To add even more insult it was thrown garbage disposal then turned on and chop to bits because the guy asked for divorce.

I'm talking, very specifically, about the set of all moe fans who use moe as a coping mechanism because they're unlucky in real-life love. [...]I realize that a lot of us enjoy similar media, and a lot of us experience the same social forces, though perhaps in different ways, creating different perspectives. I welcome this, because that's how discussion happens. I just think that the focus on misogyny is reductive and simplistic compared to the discussion I've been trying to have.

Cecilthedarkknight_234 wrote:

If i do recall there was one episode of the talk where woman where laughing and cheering for the fact some guy's Johnson got chopped off. To add even more insult it was thrown garbage disposal then turned on and chop to bits because the guy asked for divorce.

Oh for shit's sake. A woman on TV made a joke in poor taste and then apologized for it. That's really the best example you can come up with of "misandry"? And the joke is not even relevant to fujoshi or anime fandom.

Timeenforceranubis wrote:

I'm talking, very specifically, about the set of all moe fans who use moe as a coping mechanism because they're unlucky in real-life love. [...]I realize that a lot of us enjoy similar media, and a lot of us experience the same social forces, though perhaps in different ways, creating different perspectives. I welcome this, because that's how discussion happens. I just think that the focus on misogyny is reductive and simplistic compared to the discussion I've been trying to have.

I don't think you can define the parameters of the discussion to only include the good elements. Especially when the negative ones are here, discussing it with us. You may have other intentions for the conversation, but they forced it this direction.

My personal view is, as long as you're not harming another person, do whatever you want---I'll strive to respect and be nice to you and hopefully we can all get along. Not everyone feels that way though, and sometimes you have to do a bit of triage.

Part of this is, I think, how you *framed* the discussion as combating social injustice--moe fans are not oppressed or discriminated against nor are males who desire companionship but for whatever reason can't get it. That doesn't mean you feelings don't matter nor does that give others a moral right to make fun of you.

I guess I don't understand what you want out of this conversation. Yeah, sometimes Zac is a dick to moe fans. Sometimes moe fans are a dick to him. I wish we could all learn to respect one another, but I can't ignore the faults of my own side either.

Dear crazy person,

I'm fine with you vomiting your socially backwards paleolithic garbage all over the place - I've let even more idiotic nonsense slide before, often from you - but the minute you get into calling another user "sweetie" and "princess" in a condescending manner simply because you know she's a woman is where I have to draw the line on your out-of-control sexism.

Knock it off or you're out of here again. Calm down.

Could I actually be a "female"....imagine that.

Zac wrote:

Dear crazy person, I'm fine with you vomiting your socially backwards paleolithic garbage all over the place - I've let even more idiotic nonsense slide before, often from you - but the minute you get into calling another user "sweetie" and "princess" in a condescending manner simply because you know she's a woman is where I have to draw the line on your out-of-control sexism. Knock it off or you're out of here again. Calm down.

Now now Sensei I would've thought any feminist worth her salt would've seen "Sweetie" as hyperbole and as invitation to say in a verbal way "Lets Dance". If was going to be intentionally a jerk I'd have called "Her" Dude, Bro, Home-boy, Chief...ect. I kept it female.

You never said "boo" about all the accusations I made about your own world view - I.E. your love of being entertained by "Stressed Out" women or melodramatic tales of females or dramatic reality show-situations...but I jibe at a person who openly cheers on the "Social Shaming" others and I get a "white knight" flag & warning??

I swear I will never understand this site or it's participants. This is the type of "Intervention" and Ham-Handed picking & choosing of who breaths & who is silenced I spoke of in my first post in this thread.

I've always said this is YOUR Playground Zac & I think you've made MY Point for me. Stick up for "Social Shaming" all you like - I am simply one person with 1 opinion in a free society. Do as you will Sir.

UNLESS...maybe I'm not even a Guy. What if I'm actually a female who happens to be Bi & actually likes Moe for the same reason Males do...hmmm. I've mentioned Sankaku & Cosplay Deviants before- maybe I'm "something" entirely Different? Maybe I'll post a pic of myself. Could I actually be a "female"....imagine that.

How many "Macho Moe guys" can sling Feminist theory & debate about female POV's with the nimbleness that I've displayed...would a real guy be THIS "ham handed"? How much does anyone know about "me" really?

Now now Sensei I would've thought any feminist worth her salt would've seen "Sweetie" as hyperbole and as invitation to say in a verbal way "Lets Dance". If was going to be intentionally a jerk I'd have called "Her" Dude, Bro, Home-boy, Chief...ect. I kept it female.

You never said "boo" about all the accusations I made about your own world view - I.E. your love of being entertained by "Stressed Out" women or melodramatic tales of females or dramatic reality show-situations...but I jibe at a person who openly cheers on the "Social Shaming" others and I get a "white knight" flag & warning??

I swear I will never understand this site or it's participants. This is the type of "Intervention" and Ham-Handed picking & choosing of who breaths & who is silenced I spoke of in my first post in this thread.

I've always said this is YOUR Playground Zac & I think you've made MY Point for me. Stick up for "Social Shaming" all you like - I am simply one person with 1 opinion in a free society. Do as you will Sir.

UNLESS...maybe I'm not even a Guy. What if I'm actually a female who happens to be Bi & actually likes Moe for the same reason Males do...hmmm. I've mentioned Sankaku & Cosplay Deviants before- maybe I'm "something" entirely Different? Maybe I'll post a pic of myself. Could I actually be a "female"....imagine that.

How many "Macho Moe guys" can sling Feminist theory & debate about female POV's with the nimbleness that I've displayed...would a real guy be THIS "ham handed"? How much does anyone know about "me" really?

]
UNLESS...maybe I'm not even a Guy. What if I'm actually a female who happens to be Bi & actually likes Moe for the same reason Males do...hmmm. I've mentioned Sankaku & Cosplay Deviants before- maybe I'm "something" entirely Different? Maybe I'll post a pic of myself. Could I actually be a "female"....imagine that.

How many "Macho Moe guys" can sling Feminist theory & debate about female POV's with the nimbleness that I've displayed...would a real guy be THIS "ham handed"? How much does anyone know about "me" really?

I've always said this is YOUR Playground Zac & I think you've made MY Point for me. Stick up for "Social Shaming" all you like - I am simply one person with 1 opinion in a free society. Do as you will Sir.

You have a hug pillow with me on it, don't you?

For example, I use searchable archives to look at 4chan so I don't have to wade through crap about "bitches and whores" when I just want to talk to my fellow T&B fans about how Barnaby is really awesome. Don't shrug and go "lol 4chan" either. 4chan is one of the few Barnaby-positive places on the English-speaking web. Why should I have to avoid it because people are jerks?

Do I seriously need to quote myself from a couple pages back: "Like, no offense, but they've been a few raging misogynists moe fans in this thread. I happen to think they are in the minority... but I also filter them out of my life so my experience is biased."

Here's the thing. I don't care what the percentage is because they happen to be rather loud.

When loud misogynist voices dominate the discussion, it can discourage some of them from participating. Which, to a large extent, is one of their goals. I'm not comfortable with that being the case in anime fandom. So it must be opposed.

Does that mean I can jump over to Tumblr and start and anti-fujoshi brigade because there's too much BL/yaoi stuff on there and it's discouraging to men who post there?

Same reason I avoid tumblr when it comes to my shows, because I know it's a site that is primarily inhabited by the opposite sex. Talking about Fujoshi series on /a/ is akin to me going into a fujoshi club and wondering why people all talk about yaoi and bishounen and complaining because I have to put up with it. Different communities have different people.