Forum - View topicPsycho-Pass (TV) (all seasons).
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Ghost_Wheel
 Posts: 203 |
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spoiler[Yeah this is the umpteenth time that they've driven home the "taking the law into your own hands is inherently bad" message, and I honestly don't know how I feel about that. For anyone who's ever read the Foundation this guy is basically the Mule. He clearly can do thing the normal course of justice is not ready to handle yet and Akane knows it. They wouldn't have taken down Makishima without Akane strongarming Sybil and without Kogami being insubordinate. I guess they got lucky but Akane knows that as well. Maybe next time she won't take a gun she knows she can't use and instead will prepare by strongarming Sybil again.] spoiler[I think the fact that the defense program uses a holo even when it functions normally is really weird. It's not like killing people in defense of your country is a crime, so it shouldn't raise their crime coefficient to do so. Inspectors are given the option and sometimes have to directly kill people and they walk away from that. I guess that's one of the reason they have enforcers and one of the reasons Mika's behavior is encouraged in this society. But all this makes Psycho Pass and Crime Coefficient seems more and more like an emotional metric rather than an actual predictor or criminal activity. Hell, we've seen time and time again that trauma directly causes people to be latent criminals and I can't help but think that's a little bogus.] It was me who mentioned earlier that choosing to do nothing is still a choice, and I agree with everything you said about Mika now |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2843 |
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Killing people isn't exactly normal for human beings, regardless of the rationale behind them. The Sybill system adopts the stance that killing people is not healthy for the psyche and makes it more likely for the murderers to repeat their actions with less compunction.
Tsunemori did refer to the drone firearm as a "good luck charm". Personal conjecture: she wasn't absolutely sure what level of control Kamui had with the dominator and would have used it to defend herself if the reading went against her through manual manipulation. Another thing she probably failed to do with the drone arm was to use it to physically destroy the gear Kamui and Shisui managed to gather. There seems to be a bit of confusion between the Psycho Pass and the Crime Coefficient; the latter is taking a bit of a battering in its execution this season but the former remains the same and isn't referred to much with respect to its usage in assigning occupations. I've looked at the review from the staff for this week's episode, and it seems to impose a lot of what a rational person would do with their head in the right place rather than the absolute panic everyone on the site seemed to have found themselves under. It's probably a bit early to dismiss the series for the supposed flaws and poor writing it has compared to last season, I'm quite eager to see what Kamui's final goal is and if he can actually be stopped. |
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Stark700
 Posts: 11762 Location: Earth |
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Season 2, episode 7:
So a dig into the past reveals a bit more about this spoiler[Kamui in the latest episode. Anyways, they're going need all the help to take down Kamui. We also learn about his survival during a plane accident years ago. Howe interesting....] Decent spoiler[buildup overall imo.] |
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ookamigirl
 Posts: 2274 Location: Croatia |
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spoiler[Akane's grandma] makes an appearance.
Didn't think we'd get to see her family at all. Never even imagined she had one. spoiler[Shisui authorization + 8 missing dominators = major problem So some part of Kamui's past came into light.] Looks like things are moving forward. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2843 |
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If there's one episode in this series I need to rewatch 2-3 times to catch up on the new facets introduced, this one by far ranks top of the list.
spoiler[Kougami's voice heard for the first time this series! I suppose Akane never let go of the shadow that has dogged her since she first started the job. ] spoiler[Toogane gets more and more interesting with each episode, the fact he actually keeps a secret camera in his personal quarters and has a near-perfect (OCD) memory of his personal belongings reveals more of his personality. Plus the ties of his family's company to the main plot seems like it'll be relevant down the line. ] spoiler[I have no idea what Hinakawa eats with his rice, but if it allows him to finish 108 holograms of missing children in one night I want some of that too. Speaking of 108, an interesting number to choose provided I didn't mishear the conversation details. ] spoiler[As for the main mystery and Kamui himself, if you're going to take down a system and the society structured around it what better way than to mimic a virus/cancer cell in infiltrating all segments of society for your purposes. ] |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11355 |
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Grandma was creeping me the hell out (was that little earpost sparkle at the end significant?). Also, who was the redhead at the end?
I too felt like a great deal of this went over my head, but I always feel that way. 
Btw, it was 185 holos Sho finished. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Season 2, Episode 7
Felt like a lot happened, we found a lot of little pieces out. Favourite part was when Shou said spoiler[that he reported his observations to Mika who presumably either ignored it or did not pay enough attention]. The very information spoiler[ended up revealing everything, actually his aging up of the faces revealed how far things go]. Apparently Shou had depression and used skills to hide, how he is with Akane compared with Mika is a big difference, mostly Akane really knows how to get the best out of him. Although Mika might be onto something that Tougane not only has a creepy obsession, but what may be spoiler[his family drug company may be working with Kamui.] Some are not liking this season, but I found this another good example of a good episode. |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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Was this episode the first time this season where Akane addressed Sybil directly?
I thought that interaction was amazingly revealing. The Sybil system doesn't give a hoot that not only has an Inspector has gone rogue and is helping a "criminal" but hers and eight more dominators are responding to that same Inspector's imprint. The Sybil system could easily disable all of them but won't. Why -- because the holder's psycho-passes are clear. Nothing else matters. And it has the gall to ask Akane why she didn't solve the problem by just shooting or using an Enforcer to shoot Kamui. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2843 |
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It isn't. Refer to the episode when the bureau chief asks for time alone with Tsunemori when both inspectors in division 1 made their report requesting permission to investigate the missing inspector from division 2. The system still believes in its own infallibility so a bigger incident like the one involving the helmets from season 1 would be necessary to force it to close potential loopholes. To be honest, if Tougane had been allowed to take the shot with the Drone firearm this series would have ended by now. So in that respect the system has a point when criticising Tsunemori for her chosen course of action. |
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Ghost_Wheel
Posts: 203 |
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Letting a rouge inspector run loose because you aren't smart enough to realize that Psycho Pass is being screwed with is one thing, but I think it's inconceivable for Sybil to believe that having 8 of the same person running around and using dominators makes ANY amount of sense. That is clearly a bug or abuse of some kind and Sybil should shut it down on that ground alone.
At the point where we realize spoiler[Psycho Pass is connected to stuff like internal organs and then see a bunch of Organs in Kamui's hideout, even Sybil should be able to put 2 and 2 together and realize that Psycho Pass isn't a safe means of judging these people either.] It's so cute that spoiler[Akane thinks Sybil's gonna let her bring Kamui to justice. There's no way Sybil's making it any easier for her this time.] I still don't know how I feel about this. There's always some good but a lot of the Sybil moments are starting to get painful at this point. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2843 |
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I've had a re-look at some of the definitions used in this series (1st and 2nd season). Tsunemori already knows part of the trick which Kamui has used to fool the system, but neither she nor the viewers have a full idea of how thoroughly Kamui is using the system's own logic against it.
Psycho Pass = Data composite based on human psychological state. Hue colour = A rough parameter of the psycho pass, colours based on biometric readings of a living human organism used to display the mental health of a subject. Crime coefficient = The level of threat presented by a human subject converted into data form. Also a parameter which comprises a subject's psycho pass, latent criminals are considered a danger to society and confined to treatment centres temporarily before being reintegrated to society. This data is calculated according to accumulated data of criminal offenders' past actions and thought processes/behaviour patterns. Right now, the dominators fail to work since all of the Kamui minions have crime coefficients below 100, so the system apparently sees their behavioural patterns as harmless and legal despite what is really happening. This would imply that the crime coefficient is also linked to the hue colour, since Kamui's great selling point is the ability to clear the hue of subjects to the extent that they are invisible to the system and therefore to society. Now that there is a direct linkage between the crime coefficient and hue colour in a more explicit way than illustrated in the previous season, the writers have had to explain this using the most recently-aired episode and its reference to spoiler[organ transfers. ]. Since the hue colour is determined from biological readings, cutting and changing internal organs along with a cocktail of powerful pharmaceutical products appears to be one link in the chain of Kamui's grand plan. Thinking back to season 1, I'm reminded of episode 3 featuring the robot factory and episodes 10-11 featuring Senguuji Toyohisa. The bullied robot worker's hue and coefficient cleared up and fell shortly after the crimes were committed, which the team attributed to a relieving of stress and positive elation at the death of a hated bully. As for Senguuji, his almost complete conversion to a cyborg body retained his organic brain and his nervous system as the only markers for the Sybill system to read his criminal coefficient. If he was a complete cyborg like his robot hounds, the dominator which Kougami finally used on him would have switched to decomposer mode. For all the complaints over the poor writing and plot holes for some viewers on this season, I'm unsure if that's really the case. If spoiler[transplanted organs ] along with spoiler[a cocktail of powerful drugs designed to alleviate the normal effects of adrenaline in a system ] are combined together, it might be possible that spoiler[ the system ends up with a reading equivalent to a biological specimen doing completely non-stress related actions.] As for the system refusing to seal off Shisui's multiple dominator readings, there's little to defend that from what viewers have seen so far. It does seem to be a direct contradiction from what the 1st season had with the helmet bug, but even for that incident the system could only devise a workaround after many rioters were captured and the helmet sent for formal analysis to allow the hive mind to program itself to bypass the bug. There was one comment made by the bureau chief which didn't make sense initially but might be relevant for future episodes. spoiler[The brief newspaper articles Karanomori brings up regarding the plane crash ask the question if the plane was brought down deliberately via terrorism. If it was the case and the terrorist responsible is now part of the hive mind, then Kamui's motive for revenge is very clear especially if he has spent his entire childhood moving through sectors of society to gain the necessary knowledge of the Sybill system's mechanics. ] Frankly, everyone else who's been panning the series for its poor writing and general sense of purpose might as well quit while they're ahead. Once conclusions have been reached, it's very hard to overturn them once the mind is set. From what I've seen so far, the series probably still has more to offer since the entire mystery hasn't yet been fully revealed and the potential denouement as yet unwritten. Last edited by Harleyquin on Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I just read the Daily Streaming review. The reviewer hated on it, and the reason is completely stupid, they thought the episode said that transplanted organs were what made the pass clear. I don't remember the episode saying anything about drugs not being responsible, it merely insinuated that the transplants help trick the system into thinking someone is someone else. Ridiculous!
Are people hating on the show for other stupid misunderstandings? |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2843 |
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My point with my long post beforehand was to point out that Kamui's trick hasn't completely revealed its hand, transplanting organs is probably only one aspect since Shimotsuki had discovered another link which wasn't picked up spoiler[I'm of course referring to what the Tougane corporation does to make its money. Also, the druggie Hinakawa also revealed something about the complexity of the cocktails discovered. If it were so easy to fool the system much the same way as the anti-stress medications worked, more people like Kamui's minions would have been spotted. ] Changing a script writers for an established franchise always has its drawbacks, but one advantage is that the new writers can approach the material with a different perspective. Season 1 established the core idea of 免罪体質者, those naturally born with the ability to always maintain clear hue colours and low criminal coefficients. This season, the new theme looks very much like spoiler[Kamui mass-producing the equivalent but with only him as the truly "invisible" person. Note the bureau chief's comment when she first had a 1-on-1 chat with Tsunemori, is it possible for a person to be SO INSANE that the hue colour becomes absolutely white? ] Declassified documents recently revealed the potential role psychopaths were to play in the event of a nuclear catastrophe; the strain of logic unique to these people used to provide leadership to gather survivors. Taking the extreme cases out of the equation, many traits associated with psychopaths actually involve characteristics associated with risk-taking and confronting obstacles rather than running away. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2843 |
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There is a potential flaw with the Sybill system itself in its division of labour which Kamui might well have caught on to.
During the long chat between the hive mind and Tsunemori in episode 17 of season 1, it is revealed that the public face of the system is of a powerful supercomputer network which processes all aspects of society. The viewers and Tsunemori know that the hive minds exist, but in conjunction with regular supercomputers responsible for crunching data. The reason the hive minds were drafted in to help was because regular computers and their processors could only do simple calculations such as stress-level calculations and hue-colour measurements. The 246 hive minds at the end of season 1 did the job of the more complex readings like the criminal coefficient which is based both on biometric data AND on previous history of criminal behaviour which is seen as beyond the capabilities of a mere AI. One aspect which has remained consistent through both seasons is the area-stress limit warning. Because supercomputers are in charge of doing this facet, every time a limit is reached the sirens go off at the office and inspectors plus enforcers are dispatched. Back to my point, Kamui's obsession with "clearing" society and returning it to its natural state clearly aims at the hue-colour aspect of the Psycho Pass (N.B. Hue colour + Criminal Coefficient + Stress reading + job aptitude assessment + lots of other data in public domain = Psycho Pass). Since spoiler[ hue colour depends so heavily on biometric reasons, this is where the organ transplants and facial skin moulds come into play. If the biometric data is manipulated, it does have a knock-on effect on all the other readings. It's not entirely wrong to say that the Psycho-Pass can be manipulated to be "clear" using organs and facial moulds since a large chunk of the rationale behind the system is the biometric factor. Skeletal structures don't really much in the reading since bar the bone marrow our bones don't really change in physiological terms when confronted by stress, danger etc. ] There's more to what Saiga Jouji was saying to the politician before he was left away, but the man's spoiler[suicide soon after he was released hints that Saiga hit a nerve underpinning the whole charade but which has yet to be fully explained to viewers. ] Last edited by Harleyquin on Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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Wow, Harleyquin you sure put a lot of work into that analyses. I read all three posts above not just the one that was quoted. So far it makes sense -- I haven't found a fault in your chain of logic. The only thing I can't really square is why someone would create the Sybil system with such an obvious flaw? (actually several flaws) Did they really not see it or was there some profit motive somewhere? spoiler[That's in your spoiler but I still don't see how it works.] Maybe things so bad that they just said to hell with it let's go with this or we are all doomed at least we won't get carved up by gangs and warlords. One of the things that made 1984 so compelling is that Orwell was pretty well able to chalk down a path as to how we could get there from here. I am wondering if we could get the same from PP but perhaps that is asking too much. Oh, well. I think Akane is more interesting than Winston. |
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