Forum - View topicPlastic Memories (TV).
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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So it seems like we got Chobits/Maharomatic mixed with --- what. I can't decide. Death Note? Hell Girl? Help me out here. Something with an edge. There's a price to be paid for happiness and it ain't cheap.
So I really have to wonder what's up with these "retrieval agreements" that seem to be negotiated at the last minute. If they know so precisely how long a given gifta is going to last, shouldn't all those terms and conditions be part of the original purchase agreement? Shouldn't the shutdown program be embedded so that the all the retrieval crew needs to do is go pick up the shut down unit? That's some pretty sloppy corporate practice there. To me that seems more sketchy than any of the made-up science behind the story. Still, this has me intrigued enough to watch the whole thing. I thought this first episode was very well done. |
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Raftina
 Posts: 3282 |
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Product liability laws came to pass because corporations would build their products with as cheap materials and assembly as possible with minimal safety precautions and little to no safety warning--back when caveat emptor ruled. The EU and US are passing a rash of data privacy laws because corporations can't be bothered to delete sensitive data or alert their customers to data breaches. Many video game developers are finding it difficult to release their 90s games on digital platforms, because they licensed middleware from other developers but did not bother to address porting restrictions. Banks are paying millions to Microsoft to maintain their Windows XP computers because so many of their systems depend on proprietary software developed by Dilbert-esque companies that are no longer in business--and can't run without Windows XP's clownishly bad security practices with respect to administrator privileges. That SAI is paying for their lack of foresight from more than 10 years ago is entirely unsurprising and perfectly consistent with the sort of penny pinching behavior real world corporation engage in all the time. |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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I know where you are coming from but there is still something that seems off here. According to your theory the SAI produced an unknown (hundreds? thousands?) of Gifta units before they discovered they have a strictly limited lifetime. So they then formed this underfunded retrieval team to deal with the fallout on case-by-case basis. Presumably they have known about this "defect" for quite some time given that the team seems to have been in operation for years now. So shouldn't they be going after everyone who has a unit to sign the agreement rather than waiting until the last few days to pester the owners at a time where they are most likely to be over emotional and least likely to be cooperative? And remember that it isn't established yet that the 9-year timeout was unknown or for that matter actually designed in -- like the replicants of Blade Runner. In which case SAI isn't guilty of shipping defective product at all -- the specifications should have been well known at the time of purchase. So why isn't the retrieval agreement part of the purchase agreement? I am not ready to call this a plot hole or inconsistency yet but it does seem strange and I hope they come up with a reason for it in future episodes. |
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Raftina
Posts: 3282 |
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Not at all. You assume, quite incorrectly, that if a corporation discovers that their product has a limited lifespan and can cause problems beyond that lifespan, then they will have a product reclamation program. The history of corporate behave I cited in the previous post shows precisely the opposite: A corporation will do nothing to correct these kinds of problems until the general population forces it to do so--usually through government action, though sometimes through publicity.
The nearest to expiration units must be dealt with first, because they are about to expire. As Michiru had explained to Tsukasa, the terminal service is quite busy with their assignments as is. To have the manpower to deal with ones further away from expiration will require an expansion of the terminal service. |
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MaxSouth
Posts: 1363 |
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This is typical for by far most of "sci-fi" anime, but as true as ever: authors just can not do it right.
There is no way how super advanced computer would all of sudden start loosing memory in just nine years and otherwise disintegrate. It is so utterly absurd, that it is impossible to buy the story even for a second. You just see how authors have stretched things to artificially create drama that is not genuine -- a blatant fake. Authors: if you are ignorant/lazy and hence can not come up with feasible "sci" part of your setting, just do not go to this genre. It is too much for you, way above your level. Make it magic instead. Say it is about human dolls whose life power, once magically instilled in them, only lasts about nine years -- or something. ___________________________________________________________________ By the way, in the beginning of the first episode they show a picture of girl that is definitely much younger than nine, and yet she was "retrieved". This means that the corporation has created artificial girl that has severe development problems. I am not sure that people would order such product; not believable. It is also not believable at all that main lad had no idea about those robots and that they have to be pulled back by manufacturers. It would be great deal in society and everyone would know about such thing. So this anime is very poorly thought through on many levels. It just tries to pull viewers' emotions without real honest effort in setting up the story -- feels cheap, low class project in that regard. |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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That is not what the story asserted. I didn't catch the words they used in Japanese but from the subtitles I think it was something to the effect that the "artificial soul becomes unhooked." In other words it wasn't the mechanical parts familiar to us but something else. I don't have time to go scrub the video for it right now so perhaps someone else will. So if that makes the story absurd to you then any story that involves technology beyond what we know or magic is absurd.
Who would assume that? Not me. What I would assume is that the product would come with a warranty. Not to protect the consumer but to limit the liability of the company selling the product. The warranty (beyond statutory requirements which you may assume is zero) term would be based on what they know themselves about the expected life of their product. For example Toyota wouldn't warrant their drive train for 100,000 miles unless they believed only a small percentage of them would not last that long. On the other hand when it breaks down at 100,001 miles they are off the hook because they met their commitment. |
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MaxSouth
Posts: 1363 |
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There is difference between actual scientific fiction and BS "sci-fi" like here or in Seraph.
For example, quantum computers do not exist now as anything beyond experiments. Whether scientists will be able actually create machines that will be usable and mass produced is not certain, but there is no definite negative answer to that either. Thus proper sci-fi titles can use quantum computers as plausible future advance. But if authors take as an idea absolute nonsense that is not plausible at all, and try to call it "sci-fi", it is very poor job. As I wrote, they should use magic instead. There is no feasible way how computer souls would only "live" for nine years, and why their memory would start to fade. |
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Raftina
Posts: 3282 |
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If you recall Michiru's explanation, she specifically says that the company is required to do certain things during the recovery process to satisfy legal requirements. A warranty can limit obligations only to the extent permitted by law. A warranty that provides for certain contractual limitations is worth less than the paper it's written on if the limitations are per se illegal. Article 39 of the Japanese constitution prohibits ex post facto law, but only in the criminal context. That a company planned ahead to limit their end of life obligations--when they knew the exact limit of their useful life--generally only fuels regulatory actions, if not sanctions.
Of course there is. The method has been raised numerous times in this topic, which you obviously did not read.
Assuming, of course, that these robots actually develop--as opposed to being created as is. The latter is the default assumption when a story deals with robots. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16941 |
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I think you need to calm down a bit MaxSouth. You're getting way too worked up over a FICTIONAL show. You are entitled to your opinions but you need to dial back the soapboxing and aggressive attitude a bit please. Thank you.
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15510 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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@ MaxSouth
Firstly, there are some good ideas of why they might break down, and it is not just the hardware, but the programing that is made to be human like that can deal with various human thought processes, that just might not be compatible with the hardware restrictions. Little errors bunch up in small undetectable areas of just the slightest parts of what makes them like a human, and before long they could be damaged by it spreading in dangerous ways that cannot be fixed. Secondly, you seem to be misunderstanding something, the robots are quite unlikely to age. A little girl Gifta that looks younger than 9 would have been that way for 9 years. It sounds sillier that a robot could age. And Gifta are not a part of everyone's life, it is reasonable that someone who had little to do with them would not know much, similarly that I did not know much about Smartphones until I got one. |
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Philmister978
Posts: 311 |
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Sorry for derailing the topic and all, but I do have a few slight problems with the main team itself (at least in a nit-picky sense):
Okay, so I know that the main character and the supervisor are human, but who else on that team are human and who's a Gifta? In particular the two other female members of the team besides Isla (the redhead especially). Another question I have is are they going to discuss what happens when a Gifta on that team reaches its 9-year limit. Do they just do the same thing they do like in the retrivals? Or simply tinker with them? And while this one focuses on the overall concept, I do have to wonder what happens to the physical bodies of the Gifta. Are they repurprosed/reprogrammed or simply sold for scrap? I don't think the episode bothered to explain that part. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15510 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I would say that it is a pretty major part that was not necessary for the first episode, but undoubtedly is in coming events. We might find out straight away, or they might hold off to make us think about how human like they are. It could be counter intuitive to just tell us what everyone else is straight away.
It looks like memory wipe is the only real option we have been shown. It seems very heavily hinted that Isla is nearing her time-up, she has said that she is scared of losing herself.
The episode did mention that customers can get a new "artificial soul" with the new OS placed in the old hardware at a discount, so we know they can be repurposed. Apart from that we don't really know anything else from the first episode. Chances are they can repurpose parts of them. |
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Parse Error
 Posts: 592 |
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This was exactly the same problem I had. They should have gone with supernatural Urban Fantasy, along the lines of a Key VN adaptation, rather than aim for Science Fiction without doing the science. What makes it particularly frustrating is that if they had quite simply described the Giftia as hybrots, both their limited service lives and the inability to transfer state onto replacement hardware would actually make a fair amount of sense. Even the bizarre precision of their lifespans could be satisfactorily explained by the use of cloned cells. I realize to many this complaint would just appear to be nitpicking for the sake of being contrarian, but it is definitely not my intention - nor probably MaxSouth's either - to claim that holding what most would consider a trivial flaw against the show somehow makes me superior to those who enjoyed it. If someone is satisfied with filling that expository gap in for themselves, or is able to simply ignore it altogether, that is absolutely fine with me. I'm only venting my personal disappointment with it for a few moments, and offering my rationale for it. In order for a show to tug at my heartstrings, as this one is attempting to do, I need to feel immersed in its world. In my case, the use of Fantasy-style logic to justify a Sci-fi premise breaks that immersion, which in turn deprives it of the ability to affect me emotionally. Turning to myself or its fans for alternative explanations, no matter how much sense they may make, still takes me away from the show's own presentation of its universe, along with the mood it's trying to establish. Those moments when the show is trying to be poignant, I'm too busy feeling annoyed that the writers themselves couldn't be bothered with properly defining plausible rules for the setting, but instead expected me to either do their job for them or unquestioningly accept arbitrary circumstances they designed specifically and solely for the purpose of generating tragedy. That distraction makes it impossible for me to enjoy the main appeal of a tearjerker. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18245 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I would point out that this is only the first episode. Do you want a series to spend an entire first episode elaborating on the minutiae of how this all works, then? That tends to invite complaints of info-dumping.
I feel reasonably confident that we will see a lot more explanation on some of these points as the series goes forward. As for the lifespan thing, I find the "errors mount up until it triggers a cascade reaction failure" reasoning to be a sensible one, since these "artificial souls" are almost certainly insanely complex. (In fact, some have theorized that the existence of the human soul is merely an expected side effect of a sufficient complex system, which has sometimes been used in science fiction to justify AIs developing souls.) I won't dismiss that it's merely a plot device, too, but that doesn't bother me one bit. I think it's definitely possible to get so hung up on the details that you can't appreciate the story. MaxSouth has previously pretty much admitted that he's that sort of person. That's why I always take his comments on a series with more than a few grains of salt. |
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Raftina
Posts: 3282 |
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We are told about the following when Tsukasa first arrived: Human: Ren (big guy) Giftia: Zack (blond boy), Sherry (black haired girl), Constance (blue haired guy) The retrieval teams consist of 1 human and 1 giftia. From this, we deduce the following are human: Tsukasa (Isla's partner) Michiru (orange haired girl, Zack's partner) Kazuki (female manager, Isla's former partner) It appears that all giftias have western-sounding names, while humans have Japanese names. From this, we can assume that the department head Yamanobe is a human. |
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