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Night fox
 Posts: 561 Location: Sweden |
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I heard that brazilian comedians are a major reason why Trump wants to build that wall, in case they try to enter the US through Mexico, and after Jose Cruz's joke the wall just got ten feet higher. Guess who's paying for the extra ten feet? 
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louis6578
 Posts: 1862 |
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To simplify why I think Akame Ga Kill is bad, it's basically for the same reason that I think Future Diary isn't very good. One-dimensional characters, and a main character who gets by on luck whose name isn't Captain Tylor. But to simplify why it being "popcorn material" isn't an excuse for the flaws I mentioned... here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHYmFJv_obY |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23779 |
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Sorry, I just don't take "one-dimensional character" criticism in anime very seriously. Namely because that charge applies to virtually anything that isn't dramatic SoL anime. Take a look at something like Cowboy Bebop which I'm not a huge fan of, but which consesus-wise is considered a classic. Are any one of those characters really more than one dimensional? Spike is the strong silent type haunted by a past love. Faye Valentine is a hard-eged dame with a bit of a soft spot. Virtually all anime presents characters as they are right from the beginning and if they change it's usually pretty simplistic: i.e. an unconfident character gains confidence over the course of the show. So if you wanna use that as an excuse to not like a show, go for it, I guess.
For me, especially when it comes to popcorn adventure shows like Akame ga Kill is the question of, do I like these characters? Are they in an interesting situation? Do I care what happens to them? In my case, the answer to all of those was "yes." I leave my delectation over nuanced, complex characters to mediums that generally have them. |
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louis6578
Posts: 1862 |
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^
It's possible to fit an archetype of character without being one-dimensional. For example, I'd argue that all of Tenchi's harem fits an archetype, but also goes beyond their set archetype. Same with the crew of the Bebop. Same with a lot of Fate/Zero characters. To know the difference between a one-dimensional character and a well-written but archetypal one, compare Tenchi Misaki to Okabe Rintaro. Compare Mayuri from Steins;Gate (a one-note character) to Illyasviel from Fate/Stay Night (particularly the Heaven's Feel route). Compare Yukiteru Amano from Future Diary to Simon from Gurren Lagann. All of these characters fit the archetypes of POV-harem protagonist, cute little sister type harem girl, and unlucky everyman put into a crisis situation against his will protagonist. However, one is done poorly and blandly while the other is done with a level of intrigue. What makes Spike different from a boring character is that his interactions show a wide range of responses to a given situation. He can get angry, be cheered up by something amusing, feel sad and show it, etc. He is not a set in stone archetype like the cast of Clannad, all of whom only have a single response to everything because their personalities are one-note. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23779 |
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Archetypes are by definition one dimensional characters. You really only find multi-dimensional characters in "serious" novels or "serious" movies. A multi-dimensional character is one that is composed of many different facets. If you are going to use emotional response as a gauge of whether a character is more than one dimensional, then the MC from Akame ga Kill! is way more dimensional than Spike since he expressed a much wider range of emotions and at a higher intensity. Spike is incredibly monotone and all of his reactions, with a few exceptions are muted. That's just his character. The show stipulates that his past determined the silent, monotone character we see. I don't see that as a huge problem.
I think the real root of your feeling is that when you like a character you are prepared to be more charitable about his or her dimensionality than when you don't, which pretty much puts you in the category of all humans ever. |
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louis6578
Posts: 1862 |
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Spike has some consistency about his characterization, where as Tatsumi feels like he's just going with whatever is more convenient for the plot, characterization be damned.
Giving characters an archetype makes them easily identifiable. Not necessarily one-dimensional. It is VERY possible for a character to fit an archetype, but not be defined by it. If you ask me, Ryoko and Revy are part of the same Archetype, but Ryoko has way more going for her than Revy does. Just my opinion. |
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1773 Location: South America |
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My list of overrated titles:
Satoshi Kon's films - they are cool but nothing really impressive in terms of cinema. I think he is the weakest of the famous Japanese animation directors, the best are Miyazaki, Takahata, Shinkai, Hosoda, Oshii and Anno. Keiichi Hara is also better. Satoshi Kon is popular among Westerners because his movies are heavily western influenced and pander to western sensibilities. Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo - Similar to Kon's work, Watanabe appeals more specifically to American sensibilities but if you remove that factor from his work it is essentially above average but not really that special. He is not a genius of animation and there are many superior creators of TV anime such as Yuasa, Anno, Shimbo, ABe, etc. Monster It's just quite boring. The manga is much better to read and the pacing feels much better. Although I am not a big, big fan of "mature adult" animation.
In my general impression is Japanese voice acting is on a league of it's own. Japan has the world's largest animation industry and hence employs the largest number of voice actors which are professionals who developed specific vocal techniques you cannot find anywhere else in the world. While to me most English dubs sound like they were made by fans or English teachers rather than professional voice actors. They sound like "English language course" voice acting as well because the expression of emotion tends to leave a lot to be desired. And Portuguese language dubs sound more professional than English ones given Brazil's large industry of dubbing everything that's foreign (because Brazil doesn't produce much domestic content so we consume much more foreign stuff than the US or the UK do, so we just dub everything) but still the Brazilian voice acting industry lacks the size, standards of excellence and the variety of techniques that the Japanese voice acting industry has. Last edited by Jose Cruz on Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:24 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Night fox
Posts: 561 Location: Sweden |
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Well, that explains why some brazilians take every oportunity to act out their dramatic side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiW0IPrv1Ro 
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1773 Location: South America |
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Brazil produces quite a bit actually but not remotely as much as Japan or the US do.
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louis6578
Posts: 1862 |
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I think the sub vs dub war should only be invoked when talking about a specific series. Subs vs dubs in general are just too... broad of a topic. I find that a lot of complaints about dubs now only apply to older dubs or... the lesser end of Sentai's dubs.
As for my unpopular opinion, I think that a lot of comedy anime would be better if they had a plot. Tenchi Muyo and Ranma 1/2 in particular are just wasting their potential great characters by having them dick around all day. |
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1773 Location: South America |
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@luis, Dubs from 2004-2005 like GitS:SAC are old now?
@Blood-, multidimensional characters are common in long running adult manga where the authors have plenty of time to greatly develop characters. For example, Vinland Saga, Lone Wolf and Cub, Nausicaa and Vagabond have incredible multidimensional characters. In Vinland Saga we have the great Askeladd, who is one of the greatest characters in any form of fiction. I don't think movies have multidimensional characters because it is just not possible to really develop complex characters inside the time frame of a movie. Nausicaa the manga features very complex characters but Nausicaa the film, does not. In terms of anime series, we have Conan: Boy of the Future (1978), Haibane Renmei (2002), Evangelion (1995), RahXephon (2002), Utena (1998), Monster (2004) and Legend of Galactic Heroes (1988-1998) feature multidimensional characters (specially Reki from Haibane Renmei and Shinji from Evangelion). Even though I found Monster boring but features very complex and impressive writing for a TV show. Although there are anime series without multidimensional characters that have "impressive characters", Puella Magi Madoka Magica (2011) and Ping Pong (2014) have some serious character development although I didn't find the characters to be quite multidimensional. |
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louis6578
Posts: 1862 |
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^
You think Mary Elizabeth McGlinn's Matoko Kusanagi is a bad fit? |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23779 |
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@ Jose Cruz - I would certainly never argue that anime completely lacks in titles with multidimensional characters, just that it's relatively rare and especially in obviously popcorn shows like Akame ga Kill! Like I say, I always roll my eyes when somebody levels the charge because it infers that this is some kind of significant failing as opposed to the dominant state of affairs. It's like watching soap operas and then announcing in somber tones that they're melodramatic. No, really?
For me, anime does a pretty good job of making me CARE about the characters it wants me to care about but if I had to write character sketches for most of them, I'd be hard pressed to get more than a few sentences on each. I do not find this a problem. When I want character nuance and complexity there is a rich literary history out there to delve into. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Out of interest, let us say that something like Millennium Actress or Magnetic Rose could be changed to your liking. Would it have been within the ambit of their basic premises for them to have been made into something impressive, or would you say otherwise? |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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Even if it is a dominant state of affairs, it can still be a significant failing and make things boring. Beware Harry Potter spoilers, if you haven’t already read/seen it. A good example, though not from anime, is Harry Potter, where we have Harry that in the first book jumps to conclusion that Snape must be the evil one, which at this point was not a problem at all. However in later books similar situations occur. In the second one it looks Malfoy is behind everything, but then it turns out that he is not. In the third it looks like Sirius is an evil guy, but it turns that he is not. In the fourth book it look like Moody is a good guy, but then it turns out that he is not. The situation is turned upside down for Harry many times, but does he learn anything from this? Does he become more cautious and less prone to jump into conclusions? Unfortunately, this is not the case. When in the sixth book there is analogous situation to the one from book one and he sees Snape kill Dumbledore he doesn’t ask why, he doesn’t stop and think that maybe something is going on and the situation may be very different from what it appears to be as it happened to him so often in the past. Nope. He just jumps into conclusion that Snape must be an evil bastard in a similar manner to what happens in the first book and this is a colossal failing for a book that is apparently about growing up and uses an analogous situation to basically show that the main character learnt absolutely nothing from what he experienced. Apart from it being a total failure for a coming-of-age story it just makes the story boring once you realize that the main character will react in exactly the same way to the problem and will just repeat the same mistake again and again or will behave in exactly the same manner learning nothing. Any decent storyteller would use an analogous situation to show how the character changed, a good example of is what happens to Tsubasa from Gatchaman Crowds Insight. If the character behaves in a certain way just because the scenario/author's convenience calls for it, I would still see it as a significant failing. This basically one of the reasons why I keep to dislike Hak and Yona’s clichéd romance, which continues to be as interesting as watching a paint dry and where Yona’s perceptiveness, established and shown in other situations, immediately disappears whenever there is some romantic scene between these two. This convenient for the author inconsistency in Yona’s behavior also ensures that there is no real development and the whole relationship feels stagnate and boring, because how many times you can watch/read the same boring stuff, especially when it makes no sense whatsoever? |
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