Forum - View topicAnswerman - What Is A "Salaryman"?
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Paiprince
 Posts: 593 |
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Yeah, you're not instantly granted "openness" when you work in the US. Not every company is a Google or Amazon. In fact, they are the minority (Hell, I've even heard that if you don't subscribe to the mentality and "gungho-ness" those two companies push, you will have a bad time). Japan's corporate culture is heavily modeled in America's Fortune 500 style of management. I dunno why expats who try to work there complain and say it's a Japan only problem. If you can't even last a day in the office there, what makes you think you can work in any white collar occupation?
And here lies the issue as to why salaryman are portrayed poorly in media, anime and manga included. It's no secret that artists view rigid structure and control with disdain which are the core tenets that make up salaryman life. If only there were more manga Shima Kousaku that portrayed the good side of the salaryman. Despite what the constant sensationalism that gets about this demographics, they're people just like us. They didn't sign off their souls once they join the company. There are those who are genuinely committed and proud of their occupations. Something that we've seen less and less in this increasingly contrarian environment. Unfortunately, that would require an actual salaryman to pen those and their feelings towards those childish and escapist mangaka are mutual. |
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Sakagami Tomoyo
 Posts: 940 Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia |
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For the most part, Australians are pretty hard working, but less inclined to put up with unrealistic or unreasonable demands from employers, which employers tend to mistake for laziness. The British you might have a point with, though - when my parents were living in England, they witnessed incredible amounts of blatant slacking off on the job, all done by the locals. The temp agencies they used actually had folders of jobs marked "only for Australians" because they needed someone who would do actual work, and the British couldn't be relied on for it. Mind you, this was in the 70s and things have improved since then. |
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SaneSavantElla
 Posts: 223 |
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Reminds me of last season's The Great Passage, which I think is one of the more favorable portrayals of salarymen in anime. "Favorable" in that it doesn't paint it with the usual stereotypes associated with the term. Sure, the trappings were there : long hours at work, some drinking with coworkers, some office politics. But it depicts white-collar workers who are capable of being passionate about (or eventually learning to love) their jobs. The show doesn't doom the characters to being jaded or perpetually bored just for being an office worker in a Japanese setting.
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belvadeer
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And of course the salaryman occupation is where the stereotype of the Japanese having a hive mind mentality came from.
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EricJ2
 Posts: 4016 |
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Of course, it also came from Japanese companies trying branch out with US purchases and acquisitions during the Boom 80's, and a bestselling expose' business-book bestseller on Japanese strategy at the time. And our lingering postwar lack of acquaintance with their culture (we barely knew anything about them since the 40's before anime hit), coupled with our resentment over their economic ambition, made it seem "silly" when new Japanese-owned US Toyota plants tried insisting on Japanese "unity" practices for their US workers, like morning exercises. A real-life culture-shock that was eventually satirized in the 1986 Michael Keaton comedy "Gung Ho", which also played on the US's negative 80's yellow-peril view of harsh corporate-Japanese beehive-overwork at the time. |
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John Jones
Posts: 6 |
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Just an aside, has this column always been basically "listen to the racist idiot JET teacher at the bar pronounce on the true nature of the Japanese mind and society"?
At least Jake Adelstein made a very successful book career out of it and isn't writing for an anime fan website Last edited by John Jones on Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Jones
Posts: 6 |
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Oh boy, it goes back a lot further than that. Turns out racism isn't actually grounded on real or justifiable things, it's just racism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despotism#Ancient_Greece_and_Oriental_Despotism
The servile, hive mind Asian is a racist trope that's been around for 2500 years and judging by the tenor of conversation on this website and the broader public I sure don't see it going away anytime soon. |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Since you say you know more about this topic, then I think it's worth it for you to explain to us the salaryman phenomenon from your perspective too.
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John Jones
Posts: 6 |
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I'm not the one making claims about Japanese society, the burden of proof is on the person who is. Half of these articles are unsubstantiated claims about the Japanese mind and society. With this article specifically the claim that Japanese corporate culture stifles innovation needs a whole lot more exploration than is given here, particularly in light of the fact that the most dynamic, innovative period in Japan's economic history was the one where salaryman culture was the most firmly entrenched. It's a claim that could be defended probably, but of course it's not going to be because this the point of this column is to gawk at the wacky Japanese Last edited by John Jones on Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:55 am; edited 3 times in total |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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But you're the one making the accusation. I'd say the burden of proof is on you. Otherwise, I have no reason to take your views seriously. |
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John Jones
Posts: 6 |
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I'm not sure you understand how this works? The article makes claims about Japanese society that it does not elaborate on. I don't. Thus the burden of proof is on the article. Of course this being Japan you can make literally any bullshit claim you want and people will believe you but that's what the problem is |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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On second thought, I didn't notice you had edited one of your earlier posts elaborating on what you meant. That's actually what I was looking for. Sorry about all that. I mistook it for a bare accusation, which would hold no weight in an argument. |
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John Jones
Posts: 6 |
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Yeah, sorry, I edited it a bit |
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