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EP. REVIEW: Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans


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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5927
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:16 am Reply with quote
dark13 wrote:
My main beef with IBO is that I felt there was so much wasted potential. I see it in nearly every facet of the show. Orga and Mika's relationship could have went somewhere, but it didn't really.


They definitely could've explained much earlier that whole scene with Mika, Orga, and the dead guy in the alley instead instead of just showing it next to no context and as result making it look vague across both seasons.

FenixFiesta wrote:

It makes much more sense that the Tekkedan crew didn't get "more development" with Mika's closing observation that "they had already found where they wanted to be"


I don't know, when Eugene, Ride, Chad,Shino and some others came off looking way less developed than Orga, Akihiro, & Mikazuki in spite of being regular characters some of whom are given prominent roles in both seasons. It kind of comes off looking janky by comparison.

Hell even Biscuit felt like he wasn't really developed all that much and his death had serious ramifications at the time.



FenixFiesta wrote:
it was the simple goal in Season one for Tekkedan to be an operational mercenary corp, they completed the Kudelia mission that prompted a steady stream of work and Orga honestly didn't need to go into any more ambitious jobs than the ones he had been offered.


Well aside from the fact that Orga more or less seemed like he wanted to move the group away from a life of mercenary work since it didn't really come as a practical in the long term with all the avoidable casualties they seemed to rack up every major battle.
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FackuIkari



Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Posts: 411
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:24 am Reply with quote
I loved the way it ended, not a lof of anime go for the "antagonist that should win actually wins" route, I thought that was nice.The build up to it was a little bumpy but that ending was really good.

Rustal never gave that vive of Villain that didn't understand or apreciate what his enemies were trying to do, I think he just disagreed with the methods Mcgillis and Tekkadan were using to get there so when he makes the decisions he makes in the epilogue my whole thought process was like, "yeah, why wouldn't he do that?". Sure he used shady tactics to win but so did Choco and everyone was fine with it.

I don't know, I think it was a really good ending for this series and the one that makes the more sense.

Ps. Akatsuki is so f*****g cute!
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Ajc228



Joined: 29 Dec 2015
Posts: 265
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:49 am Reply with quote
Not a big fan of the main writers or the director for this series; so I guess it's no surprise that this was one of my least favorite Gundam series. The series had major pacing problems. Nothing would happen for two or three episodes. For the most part, it was a plot-driven show which made it harder for me to be emotionally invested in the characters.
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 3017
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:18 am Reply with quote
traitorAIZEN wrote:
That's 2017 for you. Who cares about normal families anymore right?


Rolling Eyes If you're going to complain about how families are depicted in IBO, you're a little late to the party.
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2207
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:46 am Reply with quote
Gotta say, regardless of what you think of the ending it took some moxie for the production team to follow through with it. This also makes Mika the first Gundam hero to die in his own show.

This is definitely a complex decision to process. Overall I though the second season wasn't as good as the first, but considering the ending I might have to reprocess my thoughts. Tekkadan lost, but the thing was they still through the world into upheaval and forced change. Gjallarhorn actually did end up losing in a way because Tekkadan brought so many skeletons out of its closet that hey had no choice but to completely change the social order, getting rid of the Seven Stars which had been occupied by people that were incompetent. Plus most of the crew did what Orga told them and lived.

Overall IBO is a show that's going to be debated, but in a good way. It's definitely the best Gundam in a long time and does some new stuff with the formula. Hopefully whatever Sunrise does next is different but still as good.

P.S. Best kill: Akihiro. -SQUISH!- Go ahead and judge me as a person, but you have no idea how satisfying it was to watch Iok get his just desserts in excruciating, humiliating fashion. I've replayed that an embarrassing number of times.

P.P.S. As far as I'm concerned Atra and Kudelia are a couple. Having two loving moms will do wonders for Akatsuki.
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Kreion



Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 332
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:06 am Reply with quote
FackuIkari wrote:
I loved the way it ended, not a lof of anime go for the "antagonist that should win actually wins" route, I thought that was nice.The build up to it was a little bumpy but that ending was really good.

Rustal never gave that vive of Villain that didn't understand or apreciate what his enemies were trying to do, I think he just disagreed with the methods Mcgillis and Tekkadan were using to get there so when he makes the decisions he makes in the epilogue my whole thought process was like, "yeah, why wouldn't he do that?". Sure he used shady tactics to win but so did Choco and everyone was fine with it.

I don't know, I think it was a really good ending for this series and the one that makes the more sense.

Ps. Akatsuki is so f*****g cute!


See, I think the way they went is fine - but they execution was horribly shallow.

Rustal may understand what his enemies want to do - but in no way did he ever seem like he agreed with them. He doesn't care that Ghallerhorn is corrupt, as long as it works to his benefit and the organisation continues with him at the helm everything else is moot. He is a character who was never humanized and we have no reason to actually believe he would do any of the things he did in the second half of episode 25 because they erode his power. That is completely against his character.

He has no reason to lower restrictions on Mars unless he had a puppet government in place ready to go, which he didn't. He completely unnecessarily cedes power to Kuudelia and democracy in general, again things which he has no reason to do because as far as the public is concerned he was in the right. His actions only make sense if he felt like the tower was starting to crumble beneath him so he decided to reduce the height and make the base stronger - but the reality of episode 25 is that he has the best possible ending and no reason to lose power except to give the audience a phony sense of satisfaction.

This is perfectly exemplified when you look at how Jullietta went from a loyal dog, to a loyal dog. At the start she is blindly loyal, she seems confused at the idea of trying anything other than being blindly loyal, then it ends with her being blindly loyal. Even though she has her epiphany speech - that is rendered completely moot by her getting pissy about Kuudelia pointing out the fact that Rustal is a piece of shit and she isn't much better. If she honestly had internalized the idea that Rustal was a bad person then she wouldn't have cared, hell she would have been more open towards Kuudelia's point of view. But she isn't, her first words are 'I don't know why Rustal gave her power', which, granted is a very good question since Rustal could simply tie her to Tekkadan and destroy her. Even if he thought it would be easier to leave her alone and keep her where he can see her, he didn't need to give her such a powerful position.

It's just bad writing, Rustal exemplified Ghallerhorn's corruption and suddenly he does an about face. You could easily change this too, just make it so the media had some access to the fight and then his acts become those of self-preservation and they make sense given his character. Instead they are weak, feeble attempts to shoehorn a satisfying ending into the narrative whilst not actually writing one.


Ultimately, this is a just the largest, most offensive symptom of the larger problem with this series - the villains lack heart. Sure, they aren't out and out evil for the most part but at no point does anyone on Ghallerhorn's side beside [expletive] Iok even speak about anyone besides themselves. Rustal is all about himself, Jullieta is about her worth to Rustal, Gaelio is about revenge/senpai didn't notice me. For all the shit that Tekkadan does, and they are certainly not saints, you at least feel like they constantly have the needs of their group and others in a similar situation in mind.

So honestly, the second half of the episode felt like a slap in the face. Death and loss is all well and good, but don't try and have your cake and eat it too. No one in Tekkadan would feel anything but resentment and hatred towards Ghallerhorn after this, so this idea that they've 'grown up and are doing things more subtly now' is a joke.

I could go on about how much this ending was just awful, but I guess I'll give it a rest and end with: in theory the idea for this ending isn't bad, even a failed rebellion can cause change and force questions that the system doesn't want to answer so it reorganizes itself to lose a little of its power to save face. But that's not this ending and that's not these characters - Rustal was never shown to be a man who was pragmatic above all else, he was too destructive for that and left way too many openings that people with half a brain would have exploited in a deeper series.

I can applaud them for trying, but that doesn't make it good.
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FackuIkari



Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Posts: 411
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:03 am Reply with quote
Kreion wrote:
FackuIkari wrote:
I loved the way it ended, not a lof of anime go for the "antagonist that should win actually wins" route, I thought that was nice.The build up to it was a little bumpy but that ending was really good.

Rustal never gave that vive of Villain that didn't understand or apreciate what his enemies were trying to do, I think he just disagreed with the methods Mcgillis and Tekkadan were using to get there so when he makes the decisions he makes in the epilogue my whole thought process was like, "yeah, why wouldn't he do that?". Sure he used shady tactics to win but so did Choco and everyone was fine with it.

I don't know, I think it was a really good ending for this series and the one that makes the more sense.

Ps. Akatsuki is so f*****g cute!


See, I think the way they went is fine - but they execution was horribly shallow.

Rustal may understand what his enemies want to do - but in no way did he ever seem like he agreed with them. He doesn't care that Ghallerhorn is corrupt, as long as it works to his benefit and the organisation continues with him at the helm everything else is moot. He is a character who was never humanized and we have no reason to actually believe he would do any of the things he did in the second half of episode 25 because they erode his power. That is completely against his character.

He has no reason to lower restrictions on Mars unless he had a puppet government in place ready to go, which he didn't. He completely unnecessarily cedes power to Kuudelia and democracy in general, again things which he has no reason to do because as far as the public is concerned he was in the right. His actions only make sense if he felt like the tower was starting to crumble beneath him so he decided to reduce the height and make the base stronger - but the reality of episode 25 is that he has the best possible ending and no reason to lose power except to give the audience a phony sense of satisfaction.

This is perfectly exemplified when you look at how Jullietta went from a loyal dog, to a loyal dog. At the start she is blindly loyal, she seems confused at the idea of trying anything other than being blindly loyal, then it ends with her being blindly loyal. Even though she has her epiphany speech - that is rendered completely moot by her getting pissy about Kuudelia pointing out the fact that Rustal is a piece of shit and she isn't much better. If she honestly had internalized the idea that Rustal was a bad person then she wouldn't have cared, hell she would have been more open towards Kuudelia's point of view. But she isn't, her first words are 'I don't know why Rustal gave her power', which, granted is a very good question since Rustal could simply tie her to Tekkadan and destroy her. Even if he thought it would be easier to leave her alone and keep her where he can see her, he didn't need to give her such a powerful position.

It's just bad writing, Rustal exemplified Ghallerhorn's corruption and suddenly he does an about face. You could easily change this too, just make it so the media had some access to the fight and then his acts become those of self-preservation and they make sense given his character. Instead they are weak, feeble attempts to shoehorn a satisfying ending into the narrative whilst not actually writing one.


Ultimately, this is a just the largest, most offensive symptom of the larger problem with this series - the villains lack heart. Sure, they aren't out and out evil for the most part but at no point does anyone on Ghallerhorn's side beside [expletive] Iok even speak about anyone besides themselves. Rustal is all about himself, Jullieta is about her worth to Rustal, Gaelio is about revenge/senpai didn't notice me. For all the shit that Tekkadan does, and they are certainly not saints, you at least feel like they constantly have the needs of their group and others in a similar situation in mind.

So honestly, the second half of the episode felt like a slap in the face. Death and loss is all well and good, but don't try and have your cake and eat it too. No one in Tekkadan would feel anything but resentment and hatred towards Ghallerhorn after this, so this idea that they've 'grown up and are doing things more subtly now' is a joke.

I could go on about how much this ending was just awful, but I guess I'll give it a rest and end with: in theory the idea for this ending isn't bad, even a failed rebellion can cause change and force questions that the system doesn't want to answer so it reorganizes itself to lose a little of its power to save face. But that's not this ending and that's not these characters - Rustal was never shown to be a man who was pragmatic above all else, he was too destructive for that and left way too many openings that people with half a brain would have exploited in a deeper series.

I can applaud them for trying, but that doesn't make it good.


I still like it, it's better than McGillis and Tekkadan winning without the resources, people and power necessary against the most powerfull force on Earth just because of will power for a feel good ending instead of the bittersweet one we got that fits better with the tone of the series. It wasn't perfect but I really don't think it was THAT bad.
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Souther



Joined: 22 Feb 2015
Posts: 602
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:56 am Reply with quote
Rustal's decisions make sense IMO. He's smart enough to know, or learn from his experiences over the course of the show that poverty, poor conditions, etc. gave birth to people and groups like McGillis, Human Debris and Tekkadan respectively, things that proved to be nuisances to Gjallarhorn for a time. Maybe Kudelia discussed that very issue with him and negotiated. Plus he likes to keep order. Even if it means ceding some power, improving things and keeping the peace would help quell further rebellions. Rustal's always been a scratch-my-back-I-scratch-yours kind of guy too.
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Zhou-BR



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 1423
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:34 pm Reply with quote
My issue with the ending is that Rustal isn't just an antagonist who uses underhanded tactics. He's a flat-out war criminal, and his last use of the Dainsleifs against Tekkadan was a stark reminder of that. Someone like him coming out a winner with no reprisals might be true to real life, but from a dramatic standpoint, it was profoundly unsatisfying, and seeing Kudelia shake his hand made me sick to my stomach. I wish there was a poisoned needle on the palm of her hand. If there was a character I could relate to during the epilogue, it was Ride, and I would very much welcome a sequel OVA where he and his comrades plotted to assassinate Rustal.
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One-Eye



Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Posts: 2261
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:52 pm Reply with quote
I started out enjoying IBO, but ultimately I feel frustrated and dissatisfied. I have no problem with a kill them all approach as long as there is some kind of payoff. I have no problem with the antagonist winning if its done well. Similarly I have no problem with the antagonist having a change of heart, perspective or growth if again its done well. Currently I feel that the show did not do these things well enough for me. I think it got to the end in a really disjointed and sputtering fashion.

Hush, Julietta and other characters felt unnecessary and could probably have been trimmed to make the show a little leaner or spend more time on other characters. I really had a problem connecting with many of the characters, because they felt presented in a flat way that it made me not care that much. Rustal seemed to be about power, control and maintaining a certain face. He gets to go down in history as a benevolent dictator type (because he controlled the media) and he "allowed" Kudelia to have power. He didn't hunt down the remnants of Tekkadan who were witnesses to his war crimes? Really? Isn't that leaving loose ends? Doesn't sound practical or good for the new world order. Julietta grows a bit and recognizes that Rustal is one of those bad old men, but its ok because he's her bad old man. The devil that you know I guess is the preferable one. Maybe I missed it, but Rustal's underhandedness and ruthlessness really doesn't make me think that he would share power with anyone or at least he would only share enough to maintain order but actually change society in a way that might undermine his power? I'm not really seeing it. Maybe if they made him a tiny bit sympathetic? Oh, but that would take away from Hush carrying Mika around like a sack of potatoes. Kudelia pretty much got shoved off stage. She just became a businesswoman and wife #2. I also felt that her romance with Mika got kinda of sidelined too. The few crumbs at the end with her character were not satisfying enough especially since in the first season she seemed like she would play a more prominent role in the show.

The show has felt weirdly rushed at times, awkward or slow at others. Those awful and clumsy death flags? Gaaghhh!! It makes me feel that they had too many ideas and too many characters that they were forced to cut or re-arrange to fit into the confines of an anime. Its not an awful show by any means. It had some good things going for it and a lot of potential. I just don't think they delivered for me.


Last edited by One-Eye on Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2402
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:52 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
...Is that supposed to be a bad thing given who we're supposed to be comparing her with?


Yes, because like Kicksville said "characters basically amounted to nothing in between their particular dramatic pinch points and story beats" which applies to Atra. She exists really just as a baby maker so we can feel a bit better about Mika getting killed off. Fllay, similar to Katejina, is a character that you want to hate but that has a lot going on and was actually developed throughout the series.

FackuIkari wrote:
Sure he used shady tactics to win but so did Choco and everyone was fine with it.


I think people were fine with it because Choco was obviously never going to get a happy ending.

FackuIkari wrote:
I still like it, it's better than McGillis and Tekkadan winning without the resources, people and power necessary against the most powerfull force on Earth just because of will power for a feel good ending instead of the bittersweet one we got that fits better with the tone of the series. It wasn't perfect but I really don't think it was THAT bad.


The problem is that they actually did have resources. They were out numbered, but considering the lack of ace pilots Rustal had versus McGillis and Tekkadan and how much damage those aces were able to do, they should have at least put up a good fight. Sure, at the very end, it would have required something major for Rustal to somehow lose.

I'm not really bothered by Tekkadan losing or the protagonists getting killed off. It is how they did it.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5927
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:47 pm Reply with quote
AiddonValentine wrote:
P.S. Best kill: Akihiro. -SQUISH!- Go ahead and judge me as a person, but you have no idea how satisfying it was to watch Iok get his just desserts in excruciating, humiliating fashion. I've replayed that an embarrassing number of times.


I don't think anyone will disagree with anything regarding Iok getting what he deserved outside of the fact it should've happened much much earlier.

FackuIkari wrote:
I still like it, it's better than McGillis and Tekkadan winning without the resources, people and power necessary against the most powerfull force on Earth just because of will power for a feel good ending instead of the bittersweet one we got that fits better with the tone of the series. It wasn't perfect but I really don't think it was THAT bad.


No one was expecting to win without considerable losses, but at the same time they way the story pretty much went out of it's way to screw over McGillis and Tekkadan so that they'd wind up in the bleak situation they ultimately did, was just poorly setup. Almost everything in season 2 was designed to work against McGillis and Tekkadan and neither made much within the way of gains in their effort against Rustal and Gjallorhorn.


SilverTalon01 wrote:
She exists really just as a baby maker so we can feel a bit better about Mika getting killed off.


Yeah I don't feel at all better about Mikazuki getting killed off especially as not only was it not necessary but it was poorly written on top of that.


SilverTalon01 wrote:
Fllay, similar to Katejina, is a character that you want to hate but that has a lot going on and was actually developed throughout the series.


Flay still winds up coming off as an unlikable bitch that the story in no way does anything to make her look sympathetic or redeemable. So it's really a case of YMMV on her not being someone you shouldn't hate.
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2402
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:23 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Flay still winds up coming off as an unlikable bitch that the story in no way does anything to make her look sympathetic or redeemable. So it's really a case of YMMV on her not being someone you shouldn't hate.


But I didn't say that I don't hate her or that you shouldn't hate her... I do hate her. I hate Katejina too. Hating a character and recognizing there is actually a lot to them are separate.
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LightningZangetsu27



Joined: 23 Nov 2013
Posts: 90
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:52 pm Reply with quote
this is a 10/10 ending compared to Gundam 00
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themuu034



Joined: 04 Apr 2017
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:25 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:


The problem is that they actually did have resources. They were out numbered, but considering the lack of ace pilots Rustal had versus McGillis and Tekkadan and how much damage those aces were able to do, they should have at least put up a good fight. Sure, at the very end, it would have required something major for Rustal to somehow lose.

I'm not really bothered by Tekkadan losing or the protagonists getting killed off. It is how they did it.

What resources did they have that would match the Dainsleif and Rustal's media control? Remember McGillis and Tekkadan were up against three Seven Stars fleets and better leader ship under Rustal as Rustal was able to infiltrate McGillis' ranks which gave him the green light to retaliate with the Dansleif. Also the Gundams aren't army killers as shown when Shino was left wide open after missing his shot. Without Ships or allies, McGillis and Tekkadan's only shot to beat Rustal was the battle in episode 45.
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