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ultimatehaki



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 446
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:15 pm Reply with quote
I admit I'm one of those who wanted literal translations for subs when it came to suffix at the end of people names, not really because it was "right " but rather because it almost always showed you exactly how the relationship between two people were. Of course that's only for when you're reading, if its a dub than it should definitely change to how it would be said in english like replacing "sama" with "lord".

Their really is no reason why the issue brought out here tho is such a rampant problem, need better editors.
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WatcherZer



Joined: 29 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:49 pm Reply with quote
Japanese High school bloomers are actually similar to athletic bloomers worn in Europe in the 20's and 30's by ladies playing tennis or doing athletics so is the correct translation.

I actually get annoyed when translations perfectly adequately translate the sentiment but then also translate the loan word as well, its usually Americanisms, if its a British word they translate it to an American word sometimes a completely different object even if it would have made perfect sense to keep it.

E.g. Japanese original dialog 'Football' translated to 'Soccer', 'Pants' translated to 'underwear', 'Rucksack' to 'Backpack', 'Ice Cream' translated to 'Gelato', 'milk tea' translated to 'Coffee', 'Seal' to 'Signature', 'Butter' to 'Margarine'

Also thank god we are past the days of 'Biru' being translated as some age appropriate form of drink instead.
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YROSHIKU



Joined: 05 Feb 2017
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:57 pm Reply with quote
It's even worse to see poorly translated games where translation have nothing to do with what characters are saying, adding unnecessary things to it or not even including some that suppose to be part of the dialogue.
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rizuchan



Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 673
Location: Kansas
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:08 pm Reply with quote
These complaints about translation was (and is) always a huge pet peeve of mine about the anime community. For the longest time it seemed like things had to be completely literal or the translation was considered crap.

"I CLEARLY heard that character say 'mansion', and that's how they translated it in the fansub, [official translation] says 'apartment' so obvs the entire translation is 100% wrong"
Never mind the nuances that come with loan words, much less completely mishearing.

But even worse was the "the first translation I saw MUST be the correct one" fallacy. Like, a nobody in their basement with a Japanese dictionary knows better than a paid professional (And sometimes they do! I'm even one of them! Buuuut when you have two translations that differ widly in multiple areas, my money is usually on the professional translation being more correct.) It was especially bad with speedsubs vs official release, since many people didn't even know that their fansubs were a rush job.
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Wingbeats



Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Posts: 258
Location: Boise, Idaho
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:12 pm Reply with quote
WatcherZer wrote:


E.g. Japanese original dialog 'Football' translated to 'Soccer', 'Pants' translated to 'underwear', 'Rucksack' to 'Backpack', 'Ice Cream' translated to 'Gelato', 'milk tea' translated to 'Coffee', 'Seal' to 'Signature', 'Butter' to 'Margarine'
.


Keep in mind most translation companies are in the USA, writing for an American audience.

Someone saying "pants" while looking at underwear would be very, very confusing to Americans xD The rest are absolutely still understandable to someone in the USA but that one probably ought to be changed, yes.
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 1704
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:20 pm Reply with quote
I agree with the sentiment in the article. That said, I also really hate when an English word is changed to a different word when it doesn't need to be. The main culprit there is probably names of attacks, but rarely it can happen elsewhere. I really hate the disconnect in hearing and reading different things, but actually having the meanings match certainly trumps that in cases like the column is talking about.

WatcherZer wrote:
I actually get annoyed when translations perfectly adequately translate the sentiment but then also translate the loan word as well, its usually Americanisms, if its a British word they translate it to an American word sometimes a completely different object even if it would have made perfect sense to keep it.

E.g. Japanese original dialog 'Football' translated to 'Soccer', 'Pants' translated to 'underwear', 'Rucksack' to 'Backpack', 'Ice Cream' translated to 'Gelato', 'milk tea' translated to 'Coffee', 'Seal' to 'Signature', 'Butter' to 'Margarine'


Uh, are all of those actually equivalents over in the UK? Because while some of them I can see, some of them are very much not the same thing. Milk tea is tea, not coffee. Tea and coffee aren't made from the same things. Same with butter and margarine which are also not made from the same stuff. If the UK calls butter margarine, then what exactly do they call margarine?

rizuchan wrote:
But even worse was the "the first translation I saw MUST be the correct one" fallacy. Like, a nobody in their basement with a Japanese dictionary knows better than a paid professional (And sometimes they do! I'm even one of them! Buuuut when you have two translations that differ widly in multiple areas, my money is usually on the professional translation being more correct.) It was especially bad with speedsubs vs official release, since many people didn't even know that their fansubs were a rush job.


Rush job or not in my opinion doesn't seem to matter to the extent you are talking about. Now yeah there might be more errors that creep into a rushed job, but what really matters is who is translating it. Some official subs suck even when they had plenty of time to do them. Some of the fansub groups that released slower actually had worse subs than the speed sub groups.

Similarly, some simulcast subs are fine, and some are bad. This is exactly like how fansubs were. The fact that these people are professionals doesn't really matter. What really matters is just how good the person doing the subs is rather than them getting paid or doing it in a rush.


Last edited by SilverTalon01 on Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zin5ki
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:27 pm Reply with quote
Justin wrote:
I'm not super upset about where we are today. Anime fans are a lot more educated on Japanese culture than they were in the 90s, and being able to be as literal as translations are today and still be understood is a luxury that comes with having an educated fan base.

Hooray for us! Over-demanding and commercially alien in our preferences though we may be, but we are at least not without a certain cultural sophistication!

Wingbeats wrote:
Someone saying "pants" while looking at underwear would be very, very confusing to Americans xD

Consider it a form of international diplomacy, perhaps. I dare say such a convention makes things easier over here at least.
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John Thacker



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 536
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:28 pm Reply with quote
WatcherZer wrote:
Japanese High school bloomers are actually similar to athletic bloomers worn in Europe in the 20's and 30's by ladies playing tennis or doing athletics so is the correct translation.

I actually get annoyed when translations perfectly adequately translate the sentiment but then also translate the loan word as well, its usually Americanisms, if its a British word they translate it to an American word sometimes a completely different object even if it would have made perfect sense to keep it.


You have a very bizarre opinion that there is something called the correct translation, which is absolutely not true without considering your audience. The examples you gave are all completely valid and correct translations for an American audience, just as it would be perfectly correct to translate loan words from American English to British English for a British audience. This is particularly the case when the original loanword is not necessarily familiar to the audience, but also holds even if the word choice would give a different connotation to the target audience.

I understand the frustration when translations have global audiences and companies like Crunchyroll aim their translation at American English and American audiences, and British audiences do not get a separate translation using their own colloquialisms. It doesn't make the translation wrong, particularly if Crunchyroll is correct about the relative size and the composition of their audience.

When it comes to preserving Japanese terms or translating to close analogs, it very much depends on the audience, including their age, nationality, education, and knowledge of Japanese culture. I simply cannot agree with the idea that there is only one correct translation. Even a literal translation is wrong if it doesn't effectively convey the meaning and tone.
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John Thacker



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 536
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:31 pm Reply with quote
Zin5ki wrote:
Consider it a form of international diplomacy, perhaps. I dare say such a convention makes things easier over here at least.


Continentals complain that you Brits don't learn any foreign languages, but at least you're forced to learn American dialect thanks to consuming so much of our media.
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Halko



Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:33 pm Reply with quote
Im still more particular to a more literal translation myself. There are times when being too liberal with a script hurts it far more than it would help. Its really all up to how far the word is off. I have no problem with things like bloomers and buruma but mansion and apartment are too far. Honorifics do not bother me either way. Translating donmai as dont mind is perfectly fine as well to me as its replacements are going to be just as clunky and nonsensical half sentences. If a character uses the family name DO NOT USE THEIR GIVEN NAME. Thats my biggest pet peeve. Hearing Smith but reading John pisses me off to no end for some reason.

The absolute biggest reason for me favoring a more liberal translation is to simply discourage the almost rewrite tier translations that have thankfully been all but abandoned by now.

Basically unless it absolutely makes no sense keep it with the loan words. Half of enjoying anime is accepting and dealing with the culture shock. You cant perfectly adapt or translate any language into another but to try to force a different culture into another just so its more "accessible" is a travesty.

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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 1704
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:39 pm Reply with quote
Halko wrote:
If a character uses the family name DO NOT USE THEIR GIVEN NAME. Thats my biggest pet peeve. Hearing Smith but reading John pisses me off to no end for some reason.


This bothers me too. I'm fine with them doing that for a dub, but I want to read the same name that I hear.

John Thacker wrote:
The examples you gave are all completely valid and correct translations for an American audience, just as it would be perfectly correct to translate loan words from American English to British English for a British audience.


Uh, wait, no. I'm pretty sure in neither the US nor the UK that tea and coffee are the same thing. I'm a little less sure on the butter and margarine one, but if butter is margarine in the UK, I'm interested in what they call margarine.


Last edited by SilverTalon01 on Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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merr



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 200
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:43 pm Reply with quote
The trend toward slavish literalism has gotten so out of hand lately. I'm sick of opening up manga to find teenage characters who speak without contractions, constantly use the word "must", and spout "it can't be helped" every five seconds. That's not how people talk. Unless the Japanese author intended the dialogue to sound clunky and robotic, leaving the text that way is just as much a mistranslation as overly adaptive, 4Kids style edits.
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Parsifal24



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 872
Location: Holland MI
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:47 pm Reply with quote
I tend to favor formal equivalency as and opposed to dynamic equivalency. When it comes to translational philosophy, behind translating a text from another language into English.

Last edited by Parsifal24 on Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Halko



Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:53 pm Reply with quote
Parsifal24 wrote:
Or fansubs that felt the need to fill half the screen up with translator notes thus making it unwatchable for me at least..


Notes have their place. Its at the end of the episode after everything else in the show incase you didn't understand something or better yet in a booklet in the dvd case. Manga has had translator notes in releases for ages depending on the publisher and the like.

Also my most rage inducing moment I've had recently with translations was in the Yuru Yuri blu ray release. They literally put a [expletive] rustle my jimmies meme in the subtitles. I was pissed and pretty much wont touch another release from NISA.
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DerekL1963
Space CowboySpace Cowboy


Joined: 14 Jan 2015
Posts: 448
Location: Puget Sound
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:03 pm Reply with quote
WatcherZer wrote:
Japanese High school bloomers are actually similar to athletic bloomers worn in Europe in the 20's and 30's by ladies playing tennis or doing athletics so is the correct translation.


0.o

Japanese high school 'Baruma':



1920's-30's ladies athletic wear:



You need to get you glasses checked mate - because they look nothing alike. Not even close.
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