Forum - View topicOtakon 2008 Fansubs and Industry Panel
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
Author | Message | |||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Takeyo
Posts: 736 |
|
|||||||
In my ideal world, shows that rely on, or make heavy use of, cultural references would use pop-up video-style TL and cultural notes on DVDs. This was done nicely on the R1 Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi releases a few years back. As with Abenobashi, these notes would be an optional extra that could be toggled on by viewers interested in reading them.
For me, at least, this is the kind of extra that actually adds value to a DVD release. On a side note, luisedgarf, maybe you should consider cutting the other posters some slack. You're coming off somewhat dismissive and elitist to me. Just because someone's opinion differs from yours doesn't mean it is any less valid. And just because things are done a certain way in your part of the world doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. |
||||||||
luisedgarf
Posts: 657 Location: Guadalajara, Mexico |
|
|||||||
This is the first time that someone calls me an "elitist", but I'm not that kind of anime fan (I'm more the casual anime viewer than an elitist anime fan like many fansubbers are) and about my examples, are only that: examples. I'm not saying that Americans anime companies should do that, but I'm saying what we Mexicans do with subbed official stuff here compared with the American fansubbers do with anime, since they treat anime (and Japanese culture) like something sacred that a Westerner should never touch with his dirty hands (at least for me)
|
||||||||
billborden
Posts: 73 |
|
|||||||
Unfortunately, it's really not. Walk down any DVD aisle in any major electronics store; you will see standard tiered price-pointing: 9.99-14.99 then 19.99-22.99 then 26.99 and up with a scattering of titles in the gaps. Season box sets are sold the same way based on popularity and perceived quality of both the product and the distribution media. Distributors realize that, as luxury products, the consumer has a great deal of influence on what is an "affordable price". Charge too much, people won't buy and the product gets pulled; often to be re-released at a lower price-point. Right now, the SRP's of most anime series put them into a much higher tier than the market can support. If they can't find a way to market them cheaper (not dubbing a niche series to avoid paying an entirely new set of actors, etc), they will never be able to win out over the fansubbers; simply because--even if they stop the fansubbers--they won't see an increase in sales as consumers will turn to a more affordable luxury. I'll give "Lucky Star" a nod in this; along with the insanely high-priced deluxe box edition (note I did not say over-priced), they put out an expensive, but still affordable, standard release. When I see more of these, I'll believe that the industry has finally started to understand the American market. |
||||||||
billborden
Posts: 73 |
|
|||||||
While I do agree with you, you missed one important detail. Using England as an example, we have had free access to British productions for quite a while in the form of most PBS stations, and now you can watch them on BBC America, if you have digital cable. This is one of the reasons for the general success of British shows in America; I can watch them for free (or as part of my cable package). That way, I know that I like "Monty Python", "Red Dwarf" and "Are You Being Served" enough to buy the DVD's, and that, no matter how cool "Torchwood" sounds, I'd rather set fire to a pile of bills that pay for it. Similar access to anime (other than shounen titles written for twelve-year-olds) would do wonders for increasing sales. And, yes, I realize that the modern TV rating system might make it difficult to reach a show's target audience (as our two societies differ on what is acceptable to what age group), but that is the joy of cable TV. |
||||||||
Stretch2424
Posts: 166 |
|
|||||||
Personally, I think the things I learn about life in Japan, partially from fansub explanations of Japanese-centric jokes, are half the fun of anime as a whole. I watch mainly comedies, and they seldom make me laugh as hard as an average episode of The Colbert Report, but I get a sense of satisfaction out of having learned something new.
|
||||||||
Ultenth
Posts: 229 Location: Washington State |
|
|||||||
How can you say I missed that point when I specifically went out of my way to mention it? Perhaps I did not phrase my statement in the best manner, but I was specifically mentioning how you can get English TV programs in the US (which attributes to their success here), unlike that of most other countries (Mexico as well). I'm not saying we need access to Japanese TV stations here in the US, mainly because of all the business hurdles required to get them onto our cable carriers. I'm just saying that we need some form of anime for the non-collectors, otherwise those types of entertainment customers will just watch fansubs. They aren't interested in owning the DVD's, so why force them into buying them when all it will do is make them go download fansubs instead? Give them an alternative. |
||||||||
Veoryn87
Posts: 808 |
|
|||||||
Well, I understand this myself, but I would assume most of us here in America don't really "get" Japanese humor or puns, so the comedy wouldn't be there for us anyway. Also, I can't really enjoy a show or it's humor if I have to stop the footage and read notations or read notes at the end of the episode to understand what's suppose to be funny. |
||||||||
britannicamoore
Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
|
|||||||
My favorite subbed anime with no English release in sight: Oruchuban Ebichu is full of Japanese humor. All explanations are in the beginning of each episode, with screencaps so you know when those situations come up. |
||||||||
Veoryn87
Posts: 808 |
|
|||||||
Having them at the beginning of the episode would be more helpful actually. My humble self still wouldn't find the humor funny, but that's just me. In some ways I'm glad anime humor is slightely Americanized so I can at least laugh at it, but it doesn't need to be completely rewritten or anything. |
||||||||
enurtsol
Posts: 14766 |
|
|||||||
More poignantly, IIRC, the old debate was Nadelman was still doing both professional translations and fansubs at the time, while Ledoux was calling him on it. (Nadelman has since completely turned pro and translator extraordinaire credited on a good many well-known shows.)
Per Media Blasters, it's good to see ol' college mate Sean still gainfully employed amidst this industry contraction, though it's weird him having such short hair.
Heh, if ya only knew................. |
||||||||
yblees
Posts: 165 Location: New Zealand |
|
|||||||
This may possibly be one of the most overlooked points in the whole "fansub is taking $$ away from the legitimate anime industry" debate. I've not seen any concrete figures, but my gut feeling is that the vast majority of anime fans these days are in the teens to mid-twenties age group. Basically people with bugger-all disposable income. BUT, five or ten years down the track, most of them WILL start to have money to spend, and that's when a fair portion of those fansub-downloaders will start thinking about buying a collector box set of their favourite anime to keep. Ok, maybe not all - there will always be that 30% (or whatever) who will never buy anything - but many will. This is what I went through myself. I got hooked on manga some 15 years ago, but only recently have been able to afford seriously collecting books. Likewise for friends who collect DVD movies, or music. My point is - fansubs "seem" so hard on the industry at this moment because the fanbase is growing hugely and rapidly among people who can't afford to pay for much. But, this won't last forever - eventually most anime fans are going to get out of college, start earning good money, and start spending real money on "hobbies". Unfortunately, the hard part now is for the anime industry is to survive the next few years. In the meantime, I'm really glad they're starting to open up to new ways of distributing, etc and wish them all the best. Lets keep in mind that even the industry buffs are anime fans or they woudn't be doing this. |
||||||||
Unearthly
Posts: 6 |
|
|||||||
While you make a good point that those without money will eventually get a good disposable income, you miss one point. Speaking as someone in said position, having money doesn't suddenly make me want DVDs. I like my anime as digital computer files (without DRM!) and I'm not going to buy the plastic discs just because I can. They'd just take up space that I don't have. I imagine this is the case with a lot of younger people, especially those who got hooked on anime through fansubs. It has been great that Gonzo has started distributing their shows in my preferred format (and I have been purchasing them), but I wonder what it will take to get more studios doing similar endeavors. |
||||||||
Top Gun
Posts: 4577 |
|
|||||||
I'm with you. Every time I've come across Japanese-specific cultural/language humor elements in a fansubbed anime episode, whether the notes be in-situ or at the beginning/end, I've found myself laughing very little at what was supposed to be rather amusing. By the time I get through reading and comprehending what the joke was supposed to be, I'm usually left thinking "...huh" instead of chuckling. In that vein, I actually welcome Americanization; if a script writer can skillfully adapt a joke into something that would be instantly humorous to a Western viewer, I'll most likely enjoy the episode much more. Let's face it, the very jokes we need notes to understand would be comprehended by any native Japanese speaker over the age of 10; as soon as you start adding marginal notes and complex explanations, you're kind of missing the point altogether. Liner notes in an extras section or a side booklet are all well and good, but the lack of them would certainly never be a deal-breaker for me. If I'm really that curious about a particular cultural element, I'll look it up myself or ask someone more knowledgeable. (Hell, I can think of several times where I've been under the impression that the English translation of a particular joke worked better than the original Japanese must have, whether intentionally or not. You can't exactly do a "write/right" pun in a language where those words aren't homophones.) |
||||||||
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||||||
I don't think notes at the beginnings of fansubs would be very well received. All I want to do when watching a show is to watch it. Funny that. I don't want to sit through historical notes, or a whole heap of explanations for jokes and puns, before the show has already started. Nor do I want those same notes being included during the episode itself, unless they are very important and necessary right at that moment. If they can wait, they should do so, and be included after the next episode preview.
Official releases are different, and I do expect a level of "Westernisation"* in the dubs (where appropriate). I also appreciate liner notes, like the informative ones included in the Initial D cases. I suppose I just do not feel the need to get all the jokes and references on the first go. After all, that's why I have downloaded the fansub instead of watching it streamed, and why I buy DVDs. They allow me to re-watch an episode again and again, at my leisure. If I don't understand something, I can use the Internet to find out the meaning was. For example, I watched FLCL before I watched the two Daicon videos. Did that ruin episode five for me? Of course not. And after I had watched the entire series, I went and looked up FLCL on the web. I watched it again, armed with more knowledge, and found I was still able to enjoy it just as much the second time round. See, it is not vital to get everything out of an Anime on the first viewing. In fact, counter-intuitively, trying to do so just lowers the enjoyment value. Good Anime usually needs multiple watching. Remember that. * To call it "Americanisation" is rather rude, people. Last edited by dtm42 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||
Kirben
Posts: 53 Location: Australia |
|
|||||||
Astro Boy (2003), Blue Dragon, Digimon (all movies/series), Zoids (any series), along with any anime series that went through 4Kids Entertainment. Basically many anime series, that are only marketed at kids in English markets. I would definitely buy DVD releases of many of those series, even if released as subtitled only. |
||||||||
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
||
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group