Forum - View topicNEWS: U.S. Senate Committee Approves New Net Copyright Bill
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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Actually when the government wins the case, the money is turned over to the IP owners. So it's to the distributor's advantage to let the government prosecute. Taken from this article:
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GeneralArrow
 Posts: 225 Location: United States |
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This really doesn't bother me. I'm not against it so I could care less. I own plenty of R1 dvds and plenty of imports. If fansubs went away I would only care because it would have an unseen effect.
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joshjoshlol
Posts: 94 |
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When applied to anime only, this bill is an egregious ravaging of ones rights as a consumer... a bold statement, no?
The anime industry shills here (and boy, are there a few) paint the fansubbers as monsters akin to rapists who need to be put down by the Feds for the good of some phantom community that's seeing shaky times. Well, to that I say the shills themselves are akin to communists and fascists, and wholly un-American/capitalist in their outlook. The fansubbing community at its current form is a retaliation effort against the insane anti-free market mark-ups in price that the licensors slog onto Best Buy shelves, and a response against the luddite practices of minimum digital distribution (without DRM hang-ups) that respects the consumers right to own what they pay for, without back stabbing terminations of digital files. Bandai wants to charge $40 for 2 episodes on a DVD? Fine. But the result is more fansubs, and more DVD rips funneling through the various distributive channels. And it's entirely justified by the very nature of a capitalist society. You appease the consumer base that you entirely depend on or you sink and you take the chuckleheads who are dumb enough to buy your over-priced, under-filled wares with you. The licensors are dying out and finding hard times because they are dinosaurs who need to reshape their business model, cut staff in a ten fold manner, and run low key and efficient without depending on the fossils who are still ensnared in yesteryears (yesterdecades, more aptly) distributive methods. It's rough, but I would consider it more than suitable payback for the lackluster, overpriced products that we've had tossed our way and either forced into purchasing or tempted into pirating. That's just the vengeful child in me speaking though, so take that as you will... Hopefully, the bill will be stillborn and economic darwinism will take its natural progression, rotting the flesh from the bones of the dying and making way for more consumer-friendly forms of distribution in terms of both price and form. And if not? Heck, the fansubbers do a better job of side-stepping localization and other faux pas of the licensors, so they make for a fine substitute in my mind. Woe to the dinosaurs who buy their DVD's and register their power levels that way, I suppose... And if the bill progresses... again, no big deal. The flesh will still rot off the anime licensors and they will fall to the wayside, as fansubbing has become so sophisticated that anyone seeking civil action will be, percentage wise, struck down just as much as the RIAA has been recently. With SSL on IRC and bittorrent IP blacklists being used by the overwhelming majority of semi-savvy pirates, only the dumbest of leechers would pay the price, while the distributors would remain unscathed and unaffected by BayTSP and the sort. And thus, glorious darwinism continues... *begin flaming now |
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tygerchickchibi
 Posts: 1448 |
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u_u Who let this guy in here...? You don't have to agree with a person on the forum, but you don't have to act like an arrogant jerk. -_- learn not to double post next time, please and thank you. Anyway, both you and josh don't seem to get it at all. >.>; |
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GaryPotter
Posts: 65 |
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No, we get it. You guys don't want fansubs to exist because you think it kills every anime dubbing company in the world. So you all become so convinced you're better than everyone else because you watch the DVDs that you insult and berate anyone who happens to watch fansubs of any kind. If anyone's the jerk here, it's you guys. And FYI, I know how to not double-post, I just felt I should back that guy up. |
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Fabe
 Posts: 219 |
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What about the Japanese companies that make the anime to begin with? Do you think the "Fans" don't own them any thing ether. Face it, you just don't want to pay for any thing if you think you can get away with it. |
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tygerchickchibi
Posts: 1448 |
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*sigh.* Yep, as I said before, you don't get it. You just have a jaded perspective. That's alright. Anyway, the last post was yours, all you had to do was copy and paste it to the original post. What was so hard about that? >_>; You're doing the same thing by generalizing everyone in one category. I can see it going both ways, actually. I haven't even said one thing about being better than someone else, have I? I'll say I've seen the best and worst of people who support and hate fansubs. Like I said, you can disagree with someone, It gives no reason, however to be childish and call people names. |
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joshjoshlol
Posts: 94 |
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1. Don't lump me in with anybody. My voice is my own, and GaryPotter seems to be more... abrasive in his approach than I would ever dream of doing in a civil-type forum. We share a lot of broad opinions it seems, but my statements are (unless admittedly noted as being childish in manner) based solely upon marketing perspectives vis-a-vis capitalism/darwinism, consumer rights, and digital technology advancements. 2. I fail to see any of my points being brought down in even the slightest sense by your post, just a lighter handed approach to the same sort of "I am right" attitude that you claim is a bad approach with GaryPotter. I may not "get it" from your calculations, but I most certainly "get" something if you cannot outright dismiss what I am saying with stated reasoning. The consumer speaks. The market listens. The company responds. Somewhere in there, there was a failure of action, and I can assure everyone out there that the consumer always speaks, and the market makes it a point to listen. Draw your own conclusions. |
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504NOSON2
 Subscriber Posts: 647 Location: Body:Santa Barbara, CA ~ Heart:New Orleans, LA |
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I earnestly respect all those who are honestly admitting that they are actually concerned about this having an effect on fansubs,because they're being real. What does annoy me is the "ANTI"-fansub,forum losers who post things like... "Hopefully this would end all those annoying fansubs" and " Yes!!! This is great news for the R1 companies"when they DAMN WELL know that they watch them themselves. If you follow Bleach,Naruto,One piece or if you keep up with new and current titles that have yet to even be known of by R1 companies like,Blade of the immortal,Vampire Knight,Kemeko deluxe etc,than you are most definitely either in Japan,downloading online or streaming them,because lots of them haven't even gotten an R2 release yet. Knock it off!!! |
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hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
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The distributor in question is Honneamise (BV USA ) and not Bandai Ent. If you take FREEDOM for example, their pricing didn't really result in more fansubs. 1 English, 1 French, 1 Italian, 1 Hebrew and a DVD ripper and upscaler. Haruka didn't really have any activity. Galaxy Angel Rune 1 English group. So basically, there wasn't any increase in fansub activity in "retaliation" to their pricing scheme. (This info is available to anyone by doing a search.) BayTSP, Web Sheriff et al have access to those same IP blacklists so the lists are not exactly the fullproof. They also are capable of IRC monitoring. |
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Hon'ya-chan
 Posts: 973 |
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No, you [expletive] shut up you worthless little inconsiderate cock and listen. Oh, you will listen if I have to go to your house, tie your worthless little corpse to a chair, and put eye drops into your eyes and swab your ears every 5 minutes to make sure their open and clear. In part because of you inconsiderate little shits, we have the dismal problems that are plaguing the Anime Industry today. You can justify all you want of how fansubs are "helping" the fandom and helping to promote the industry, but in all fairness your still a worthless little spineless crook at the end of the day. How much have you "pirated" from online sources? Be honest. You've taken THOUSANDS of profit (I would be shocked if it was HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS). Now, if you had just maybe "invested" some of that back in a purchase of a DVD (even if it was used from eBay, I should allow that much; no CD-R purchases at Best Buy don't [expletive] count), you'd at least be contributing to helping bring anime over to the United States. Even if it is a small pittance, at least it shows that yes, you bought something. Someone bought a DVD of "Random Anime Title." But no. You had to spout out of your little flaphole that you rather steal than to pay. You'd rather be some arrogant prick who rather listen to himself talk and be a narcissistic bastard. Well, I hope the US Government arrests you, slaps some Prison Orange onto you, and you become Bubba's new BFF. Hey, they can't get Osama, but they'll have a better chance of screeching the Partyvan outside your house. |
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joshjoshlol
Posts: 94 |
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These are points that would be of substance... if the fansubs in question weren't released ahead of the R1 DVDs, and if quantity were an issue rather than titles just being fansubbed in general. Also, the search option you most likely used (while respecting ANN's guidelines and not posting links to possible search engines) doesn't come anywhere near encompassing all the varying DVD ripping groups that don't list their releases publicly and rely on distribution through means of people idling on their channels. And the spirit of my quote was more in line with the fact that trust and consumer willingness waned in light of those types of practices by BV and other licensors who expect that somehow, the anime DVD market is some sort of extra premium versus other types of DVD releases for tv series. Well... it's not. There's no special alchemy going on that makes them more luxurious, their encoding isn't all that superb, and the production value of dubs is far from stellar. At the heart of it, it's the licensors bowing to the whims of japanese companies who want to keep their own local restricted DVD consuming market from importing in R1's because of huge price differences that by and large, american DVD consumers enjoy with most every other type of series. Thus, a phantom increase in cost, and thus a market is forged on deception and malpractice to the consumer. Also, thank you for the correction regarding Bandai Visual. There was ambiguity that I should have ironed out better.
The trick to the blacklists is using WHOIS and keeping tabs on IP registrations of companies. That's something that is impossible to hide and when the lists are updated (some every week or two) the most that an IP sniffer can establish is that you may be on a tracker, not that you are downloading X content. Thus their cases are as paper thin in civil court in establishing liability as the RIAA persecutions, which have recently been struck down again and again. In regards to IRC... SSL is the aspect that you are not touching upon. The encryption is such that when a handshake is verified, very, VERY few people are capable of intercepting the data and compromising its integrity. We're talking government level ability should it be done on a massive scale, not outsourced sniffers cold canvasing IRC channels and bots. |
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joshjoshlol
Posts: 94 |
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This is, in and of itself, a horrid chain of thought. Project your reasoning elsewhere, and you can see it's the natural reaction of the market taking its due course... In the United States (and the entire world, I'm sure) gasoline saw a huge surge in price. A direct result was A.) less miles were driven during summer months (upwards of 18 billion, if my memory serves me correctly) and B.) large cars with poor gas mileage saw a decline in sales. Does this model sound familiar? A phantom price mark-up brought about the decline in purchasing of a good or service, and alternate routes were taken by the consumer to ensure their comfort (which is the highest importance in this whole debate, regardless of the sob stories and sad little violins being played by shills and planted forum goers) at the expense of a corrupted or unchanging corporation. Gas saw a mark-up in price. So, under your chain of thoughts... people should have driven more? Gotten less fuel efficient cars? Dumped their money down the drain when better alternates were available? Because in your reasoning, that would have brought more gas to the US somehow, as if the market had more fluidity to it than it really does. No, it doesn't make any sense to think that way. They cater to us and our needs, or they themselves go down the drains. |
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hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
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Well if you're the company on the receiving end then you can intercept. And it's easy to seach to see which channel has what title and even get data off the bot.
They prob can get around the WHOIS list. Don't access thru the official company lines. They need only to record the IP addresses, who you were seeding, which is easy to do. |
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joshjoshlol
Posts: 94 |
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That is true, that they themselves can establish a connection to one of the bots idling on a channel, or target an fserve set up by an individual user. However, most of the channels have bots set up primarily in European countries with lax international copyright laws, and thus the primary uploaders and distributors would easily escape any sort of consequence. Again, it will always be a losing battle for the hunters, unless they do something really crazy, like establish their own faux fansubbing group and snag people by setting up an irresistible lure and waiting for the fish to swim on in. That's about as long a shot as it gets...
And spoofing WHOIS is possible, though as the companies would possibly be outsourced by the US government (as seemingly by the news article, the government can act as a proxy instigator of civil action against a pirate), I'm uncertain the legality of doing something like that. |
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