View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
|
ShellBullet
Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Posts: 1051
Location: I hit things, with my fist.
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:08 pm
|
|
|
DragonofHeaven wrote: | And pretty much everything on Adult Swim is overrated because it is a main anime source for a lot of people. Everyone knows of the AS series. |
I think Trigun was pretty popular even before it came to AS, so you can't really claim that AS overhyped it. If Trigun is overrated you can blame entire fan community.
Trigun is an action story, true, but it also had some substance. Personally, I found Vash to be a little annoying at times. He knew that he didn't want to kill under any circumstance, yet he never considered the impliocations of what that meant. That is why he spent so much time whining and complaining during the second half of the series. The whole point was that his pacifist nature made him inherently weaker than Knives and unable to stand up to him, at least in his own mind. It was only at the end that he became sure of himself and realized that the philosophy that Rem taught him, instead of being a weakness, was actually his greatest strenth. Thus proving that peace and love will always win in the end, for those who believe in such altruistic sentiments. Anyway, the point is that the show has more substance to it than alot of other stuff out there, which is why it was so well received.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Arkard
Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 677
Location: Poland
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:12 pm
|
|
|
Well maybe.
I can agree that the series would be better without some filler episodes. Yes, they could shorten it to a 13-episode show.
Quote: | underdeveloped plot |
hmmmmm can`t agree here.
The plot seemed quite good for me. It wasnt without flaws (had a few loose ends ) but generally it seemed OK.
2 "aliens". One bad, one good. One wants to kill humans, other wants everyone to survive. One goes around the planet looking for the bad one, at the end he finds him but doesnt kil him .
Quote: | so-so characters & development, |
totally cant agree here.
There are a few characters that could use a little more background (Merryl, the Guns) to them but the characters like Vash, Legato and especially Wolfwood are pure gold. I wouldn`t trade them for any other person.
Quote: | absolutely atrocious animation after the first seven or so episodes. |
didn`t really see anything wrong with it.
|
Back to top |
|
|
jsyxx
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:14 pm
|
|
|
Quote: | Agreed, Trigun is appealing to me mostly for Vash's phisophical views on life; I'm not a big fan of the action sequences in this series. |
I would have to agree here aswell. I don't think any of the aciton scenes were that well directed.
Last edited by jsyxx on Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
Back to top |
|
|
one3rd
Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1818
Location: アメリカ
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:16 pm
|
|
|
darkhunter wrote: |
Spoiler Warning!! |
Spoiler Tag!!
|
Back to top |
|
|
abunai
Old Regular
Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 5463
Location: 露命
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:22 pm
|
|
|
one3rd wrote: |
darkhunter wrote: |
Spoiler Warning!! |
Spoiler Tag!! |
Yes, quite so. Too bad there's no "Sexist Bullshit" tag, viz:
darkhunter wrote: | Also, I'm assuming you're female because most female I know don't' like action title at all. Trigun is a good action title. Recommend if you're an action fan. |
- abunai
|
Back to top |
|
|
darkhunter
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2992
Location: Los Angelas
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:32 pm
|
|
|
abunai wrote: |
one3rd wrote: |
darkhunter wrote: |
Spoiler Warning!! |
Spoiler Tag!! |
Yes, quite so. Too bad there's no "Sexist Bullshit" tag, viz:
darkhunter wrote: | Also, I'm assuming you're female because most female I know don't' like action title at all. Trigun is a good action title. Recommend if you're an action fan. |
- abunai |
Well it's true that most female here in the U.S. don't like action title. I never said all, that's what you assume. More guys are fascinated by Trigun than female fans. I tried recommend Trigun to female and they tend to like Fruit Basket or Ranma more. Perhaps it's being too general.
You're so easily offend, what country are you from? France?
|
Back to top |
|
|
Shiki MSHTS
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 738
Location: NoVA
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:42 pm
|
|
|
darkhunter wrote: |
Well it's true that most female here in the U.S. don't like action title. You can like it if you want, I'm just generalized the female. I tried recommend Trigun to female and they tend to like Fruit Basket or Ranma more. |
Acctually, it's a really bland generalization to say that most females don't like action titles. I think that's the point being made. I don't even think that it's true that females in general in the U.S. dislike action titles (infact, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite). To assume someone is a girl just because they don't like action titles is pretty stereotypical, not to mention not very accurate or smart either.
darkhunter wrote: |
You're so easily offend, what country are you from? France? |
That wasn't called for. And also, it's yet another generalization.
|
Back to top |
|
|
abunai
Old Regular
Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 5463
Location: 露命
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:45 pm
|
|
|
darkhunter wrote: |
abunai wrote: | Yes, quite so. Too bad there's no "Sexist Bullshit" tag, viz:
darkhunter wrote: | Also, I'm assuming you're female because most female I know don't' like action title at all. Trigun is a good action title. Recommend if you're an action fan. |
- abunai |
Well it's true that most female here in the U.S. don't like action title. I never said all, that's what you assume. |
I commend you for your considerable talent for derogatory generalisation. You have a future in the U.S. (un)diplomatic corps.
darkhunter wrote: | You're so easily offend, what country are you from? France? |
Well done! That was actually a funny remark! Even though the grammar was skewed, it genuinely made me smile. Come on, let's see you try for two in a row...
darkhunter wrote: | I wonder how you're gonna deal with real life. |
BZZT! Sorry, that was just obscure and meaningless and not really clever at all. I didn't get it, and I doubt anyone did. Don't give up your day job.
- abunai
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nagisa
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 6128
Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:07 pm
|
|
|
abunai wrote: | Sluggish plot? I'd rather call it uneven. It seems obvious that there are some episodes that could have been removed without losing the central storyline, and are therefore essentially superfluous. |
This is true. Would have been nice if they'd have cut some of the filler for a few more episodes tying up the loose ends.
abunai wrote: | So-so characters & development? No. I'll grant you, many of the secondary characters are complete cardboard cut-outs, but the central characters have sufficient depth (not that one couldn't wish for more). |
Vash, Wolfwood, & Milly were well-covered, and Meryl had enough, though I'd have liked more (since she's actually my favourite character pretty much). Knives...I'm on the fence. I would have liked to have seen more involving the actual roots of his frame of mind other than being picked on by a drunk crewman. The way it was presented just left me with the impression that he wants to kill all of humanity because one or two people he lived with were bad eggs. And Legato just didn't cut it for me. He was the "Darth Maul" of Trigun, as far as I'm concerned. Big, scary bad guy with little else to offer. And the Gung-ho Guns were complete throwaways with just about the sole exception of Chapel.
Arkard wrote: | didn`t really see anything wrong with [the animation]. |
It was excellent for the first few episodes; it was fluid, crisp, detailed, and basically OVA-quality. As the series progressed though, the artwork got messier, the colours got muddier, the detail either vanished or got in the way (too much "DBZ papercut attack" crap going on), the character designs became severely off-model, and it was incredibly choppy. Wolfwood killing Raidei the Blade took all of three frames, at best (gun, fired gun, shot of static Raidei cel being dragged along background).
|
Back to top |
|
|
abunai
Old Regular
Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 5463
Location: 露命
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:27 pm
|
|
|
Nagisa wrote: |
abunai wrote: | Sluggish plot? I'd rather call it uneven. It seems obvious that there are some episodes that could have been removed without losing the central storyline, and are therefore essentially superfluous. |
This is true. Would have been nice if they'd have cut some of the filler for a few more episodes tying up the loose ends. |
Mmm-hmm. No argument there. Filler episodes are the Achilles' heel of any series. Though they might be convenient for people coming in midway in a story, they break the pace for the regular viewers.
Nagisa wrote: |
abunai wrote: | So-so characters & development? No. I'll grant you, many of the secondary characters are complete cardboard cut-outs, but the central characters have sufficient depth (not that one couldn't wish for more). |
Vash, Wolfwood, & Milly were well-covered, and Meryl had enough, though I'd have liked more (since she's actually my favourite character pretty much). Knives...I'm on the fence. I would have liked to have seen more involving the actual roots of his frame of mind other than being picked on by a drunk crewman. The way it was presented just left me with the impression that he wants to kill all of humanity because one or two people he lived with were bad eggs. And Legato just didn't cut it for me. He was the "Darth Maul" of Trigun, as far as I'm concerned. Big, scary bad guy with little else to offer. And the Gung-ho Guns were complete throwaways with just about the sole exception of Chapel. |
I don't think Legato was that superficial a character. His personality isn't all that complicated. Self-destructive sado-masochist with an obsessive loyalty to Knives. Easily pegged, in one sentence. But that doesn't make him a badly-shaped character.
Meryl definitely needed more detail, but she passed muster, anyway. My own favourite character in the entire series was, needless to say, Milly. From start to finish, she was a genuinely charming character.
I'll agree with you on the Gung-Ho Guns. They struck me as throwaways, indeed, with that sole exception.
- abunai
|
Back to top |
|
|
darkhunter
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2992
Location: Los Angelas
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:33 pm
|
|
|
Shiki MSHTS wrote: |
darkhunter wrote: |
Well it's true that most female here in the U.S. don't like action title. You can like it if you want, I'm just generalized the female. I tried recommend Trigun to female and they tend to like Fruit Basket or Ranma more. |
Acctually, it's a really bland generalization to say that most females don't like action titles. I think that's the point being made. I don't even think that it's true that females in general in the U.S. dislike action titles (infact, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite). To assume someone is a girl just because they don't like action titles is pretty stereotypical, not to mention not very accurate or smart either. |
If more girls like action title, than I wouldn't have to go see another boring romantic comedy every time they're released.
But just the fact that someone said: "Oh I don't think Trigun's action is all the great, makes me think that they're not even action fan. The action in trigun is pretty good. And when I think of people who don't like action title...girls come to mind. Yea, generalization is a bad thing, but even an anime will generalize a group. (Black guys having fat lips/flattop). You can say certain anime are sexist because it has fanservice for guy. When a studio produce a product, they usually have a general target in mind.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nagisa
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 6128
Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:49 pm
|
|
|
darkhunter wrote: | But just the fact that someone said: "Oh I don't think Trigun's action is all the great, makes me think that they're not even action fan. |
I don't think Trigun's action is all that great, and that's mostly because the animation (and as a result, the look & choreography of the action scenes) is bottom-of-the-barrel terrible. I love a good action sequence though, and stuff like Cowboy Bebop's gunfights or Kenshin's swordfights (well...most of them, like his duels with Soujiro & Saitou) or Banner of the Stars' naval combat stand out as far better examples in my mind than Trigun's clumsy, choppy, muddy duels.
darkhunter wrote: | You can say certain anime are sexist because it has fanservice for guy. When a studio produce a product, they usually have a general target in mind. |
Go watch a shoujo and you'll definitely see fanservice for the female crowd. Shirtless bishounen, tight pants, that sort of thing. Although I will risk being somewhat sexist in saying that fanservice aimed at female audiences is often more tastefully done and less shameless than, say, the typical guys' harem anime.
|
Back to top |
|
|
jfrog
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 925
Location: Seattle
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:03 pm
|
|
|
abunai wrote: | Mmm-hmm. No argument there. Filler episodes are the Achilles' heel of any series. Though they might be convenient for people coming in midway in a story, they break the pace for the regular viewers. |
Not true. The filler episodes were one of the things I liked best about Paranoia Agent.
I totally agree about Trigun. Can you say preachy? I've been around large numbers of pacifists all my life (from my Mennonite upbringing to the vegan uber-leftists that filled my high school) and have grown to throroughly detest the philosophy. You can't say that Trigun is an intelligent exploration of personal ethics, because whenever a genuine moral dillema comes up (I'm thinking of the episode with the caravan and the slave girl), the writers use a deux ex machina so that there's a happy ending for everyone.
And the villains. My god, the villains. J-Syxx is right. They make Spider-Man villains look complex and threatening. Although I do have to say that I grew very fond of Wolfwood and loved every episode focusing on him. He was way too awesome for Trigun.
|
Back to top |
|
|
DragonofHeaven
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 115
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:14 pm
|
|
|
Nagisa wrote: |
I don't think Trigun's action is all that great, and that's mostly because the animation (and as a result, the look & choreography of the action scenes) is bottom-of-the-barrel terrible. I love a good action sequence though, and stuff like Cowboy Bebop's gunfights or Kenshin's swordfights (well...most of them, like his duels with Soujiro & Saitou) or Banner of the Stars' naval combat stand out as far better examples in my mind than Trigun's clumsy, choppy, muddy duels. |
Ouch, harsh^_^;
Anyway, I wasn't too impressed with the Trigun duels either. The series is all about Vash's outlook on life and his philosophy behind such idealism. Cowboy Bebop and the big Kenshin swordfights were way better; Trigun is pretty much good for a few laughs during the first couple of action sequences.
Nagisa wrote: | Go watch a shoujo and you'll definitely see fanservice for the female crowd. Shirtless bishounen, tight pants, that sort of thing. Although I will risk being somewhat sexist in saying that fanservice aimed at female audiences is often more tastefully done and less shameless than, say, the typical guys' harem anime. |
Right, fanboys just get their fanservice handed to them; no mystery whatsoever. You ask for a shower scene, you get boobies and barbie-doll nudity. Fansevice for girls tend to be more tasteful in the fact that it leaves them intrigued to see more; an open shirt and skin-tight pants are more enticing^_^
|
Back to top |
|
|
Shiki MSHTS
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 738
Location: NoVA
|
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:34 pm
|
|
|
DragonofHeaven wrote: |
Nagisa wrote: | .....shirtless bishounen, tight pants, that sort of thing. Although I will risk being somewhat sexist in saying that fanservice aimed at female audiences is often more tastefully done and less shameless than, say, the typical guys' harem anime. |
Right, fanboys just get their fanservice handed to them; no mystery whatsoever. You ask for a shower scene, you get boobies and barbie-doll nudity. Fansevice for girls tend to be more tasteful in the fact that it leaves them intrigued to see more; an open shirt and skin-tight pants are more enticing^_^ |
Not so. Skin-tight pants for guys really hurt. In some areas more than others. =/
|
Back to top |
|
|
|