Forum - View topicAnime in America: Theron and Carl's Best (and Most Notable) of 2009
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Albright
Posts: 14 |
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Being a Californian who has lived through my share of quakes, I watched a few episodes of Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 one way or another, intrigued by its premise. However, I couldn't finish it, because it was just too ridiculous… particularly in the frequency of the aftershocks. There may be aftershocks in the days following a large quake; there will not be several strong ones each day for several days thereafter unless it's friggin' armageddon or something. It seemed like they were going for realism, but at some point decided cheap drama would be better instead. Too bad, because I think there was still some good story ground to be covered with a more realistic approach.
I too am surprised by the support for Toradora. It had some interesting moments in the beginning when it looked like the inevitable conclusion wouldn't be so inevitable after all, but then it nose-dived into sentimentality and predictability in its third act. It would have been an easy license during the bubble, but nowadays, I don't blame the licensors for skipping it, and don't think the legit American market will miss it for the most part. EDIT: Thought back to this and wanted to address it…
I can't imagine the anticipated profit margin for Monster is very large, but I'm willing to bet that the reason the music was replaced was because it would have required separate licensing deals that would have made that margin even thinner or possibly non-existent. I think "duplicity" is a harsh word - I don't think Viz was trying to maliciously trick anyone. |
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Big Hed
 Posts: 1607 Location: Melbourne, Australia |
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I would've mentioned it in my post, but I already brought it up in last year's thread... and many times since then. Oops, did it again! 
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Sailor S
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Oh, and I meant to say in my previous post, but I also wholeheartedly agree that Cross Game is in sore need of a license, but likely won't just because the one sports anime license that's allowed each decade was burned up with Big Windup. Cross Game has the potential to get up in masterpiece level for me, depending on how the second half finishes out. Either way, it's already getting high marks, so it sure would be great if it came out here.
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8467 Location: Penguinopolis |
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They failed to disclose that they had replaced the music beforehand. This was just like Bandai's failure to tell the fans they couldn't get the rights to the OPs and EDs for Zeta Gundam. It's not so much the replacing the music itself, but the not disclosing it beforehand is really low. That aside, that scene in episode 15 just doesn't work as well without "Be My Baby". |
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Emerje
 Posts: 7364 Location: Maine |
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See, for me (and probably the others who are eager for a license) the feeling is the exact opposite. It's wholly unique because it gets away from all of the drudge that super-moe romantic comedies rely on (generic sight gags, tons of fanservice), and flawless comedy timing accompanied by the perfect balance of somber and dramatic moments. And I have no idea how you can say the romance wasn't plausible, for me this was the most realistic depiction of high school romance in an anime. There's exactly two instances of "love at first sight" and both are shot down, all of the relationships happen gradually, going from acquaintances to friends to romantic interest. And while the final pairing was predictable, how it came about and what came after was anything but. Frankly I think people didn't like what came in the last few episodes because it wasn't what they expected to happen, but for me that's what I liked about the ending and I think the way the characters responded was absolutely how a group of teen friends do react when in such a complex and sudden situation, I know it happened more than once while I was in high school. I don't take calling shows masterpieces very lightly, this one will always be a masterpiece to me. I've watched it three times and I eagerly await a license before I'll watch it a fourth. I don't even care if it gets a dub and I rarely buy DVDs without them, that's how badly I want this! Emerje |
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MH Knights
Posts: 71 Location: Madison, WI |
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I was going to say something about Michiko to Hatchin not showing up in the Unlicensed Gems category but I guess the episodes were evenly split between '08 and '09. I hope this show gets licensed soon as the market could use something as unique as MtH.
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pparker
 Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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I'm not a big fan of shojo or historical fantasy, so this year's picks sort of went past me. Frankly haven't seen most of the top picks. I do need to finish NANA, though, which looked good from the first couple of episodes, and take a look at Moribito on principle. I just haven't gotten to Baccano! on my watch list, but expect to love it. The schedule criteria was a bit wonky for me to match up with as well, but it makes sense.
Definitely second the licenses needed for Kara no Kyoukai and Toradora!. KnK is more likely, but may be an expensive license with it being seven movies. Toradora! might not pay for a dub, which would be a shame even though I'm a sub fan and would never watch it, because it needs the wider distribution. There's only one caveat to its masterpiece status. Although it is a great series that I love, I wonder if part of that isn't just for how much it defies cliche and exceeds its own genre rather than in a comparison with all anime. The only major disagreement would be with Code Geass death scenes. The earlier one mentioned had more emotional impact for me, and I would have taken the major one from Claymore over either. At least Claymore got the mention for Bad-Ass Moment, too. It still pains me how that series fell from utterly awesome into the mediocre ending. |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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Good picks overall. I'm glad to see Moribito, Baccano! and even Claymore, among others, get some recognition.
Can't really say the same thing about Rebuild of Evangelion but I suppose that's natural considering I haven't even bothered to watch it yet...and probably won't do so until all four movies are out. I just prefer to take a "wait and see" approach before investing too much, both literally and figuratively, in this project. As far as unlicensed shows go, I didn't find Toradora! and Valkyria Chronicles in particular to be that interesting. I'm not sure if I would have included it myself, but I liked the Code Geass death scene in question because of the drama and irony involved. I couldn't care less about the outfits and so on, the scene still fit the story's theme.
Unlike yourself, I am not looking forward to discussing the exact same issues for the Nth time so all I'll say is this: if the misleading statement above isn't both a false dilemma (history =/= fiction) and a clear case of putting too many words in other people's mouths (they said no such thing), then I don't know what it is. The rest is just old news. |
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Stretch24
Posts: 107 Location: Ohio |
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I guess I'll never understand why so many people love Toradora. I watched at least 18 episodes, and have an obsession with watching series in their entirety if I get that far along, but it had become a show which I dreaded. The romances just seemed to go nowhere, continually taking a one-step-forward-then-one-step-back approach which was aggravating to me. And it wasn't particularly funny either. Consequently, I gave up on it. I guess the best explanation is that this is a love-it-or-hate-it sort of show.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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It was predictable. Bitchy girl and doormat guy get together in the end, because they are the lead characters. Now, what could have been really interesting would be a guy who doesn't take crap from a girl who physically assaulted him for no other reason than she was in a bad mood, or a girl who deals with her anger like everybody else. Having one generic character is bad enough, but when you have both, and they are supposed to end up with one another, then you're probably screwed. The humour and romance was appalling. Somehow I'm supposed to laugh when girl breaks into guy's house and attacks him? Somehow her treating him like a dog is supposed to be a genuine portrayal of a healthy relationship? GET. A. GRIP. This show was mediocre at best, and yet it is put up on a massive pedestal by people who should really know better. That's what gets me. I wouldn't have a problem with Toradora! if it was treated as well/badly as it deserved, but it is so hyped I can't help but hate it. And feel really annoyed at everyone who continually spouts such nonsense. |
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Stretch24
Posts: 107 Location: Ohio |
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Oh, you know what show I say most needs an R1 license? Astro Fighter Sunred:
anime#10193 Why? Because it just knows how to be goddamn hilarious. I swear, anyone in any country would be laugh-out-louding at it. |
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pparker
Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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Keeping in mind my perception of your general dislike for this genre, I think thou dost protest too much. But in any case, this points to my earlier comment regarding a possible over-response to the quality of the show simply because of the genre context. Those of us who appreciated/suffered through seemingly hundreds of high school romance/harem shows will have a different perspective on Toradora! than someone who avoids the genre genetically or who has simply never seen any of those shows for comparison. I dropped it myself after the first couple of episodes, thinking it was another Kugumiya tsundere vehicle but without the magical/fantasy/parody side benefits. Only later after watching to about ep 5 or 6 did I begin to discover for myself the reason for its popularity with "people who should know better". I watched some episodes three times just to enjoy them and catch the subtleties. Rie Kugumiya's performance sold me entirely on her master chops as an actress, though I had always enjoyed her work. Toradora! is an extreme departure from its genre norm, but that's easily missed if you are only looking at the stereotypes apparently represented by the characters. Actually, the writing and direction is first rate for entertainment. Each character is unique, someone we've truly never met before, with authenticly human arcs, and the usual setup and relationship dynamics play out quite honestly and differently, and unexpectedly. It was highly original in many ways. The only thing you mentioned, spoiler[the two ending up together in the end, is kind of a silly criticism seeing that it is pointedly telegraphed in the first two minutes of the first episode.] It wasn't just some "which one is he going to pick" dramedy harem show, if that's what you took from it. Of course it has elements of that, otherwise it would be a different genre, but that was never the point. Now, if you gave it to a film buff who had only watched 10 anime so far, all from some aggregate critics' "Best Anime of All Time" list, I doubt they would rate it a masterpiece on a par with Cowboy Bebop. In its context, however, it certainly comes close. Not to start an argument. There's nothing I could say that would change your mind. Just... there are good reasons that both Theron and Carl, along with a lot of other hardcore anime fans-- many of whom normally don't like this genre--rate it highly. |
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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I am not asking for a debate, I am just asking to explain things I apparently missed. My point is that from what I did see while they where some artistic attempts none of them really made any sense from a logical viewpoint. I don't mean to be rude but I feel like I am talking to a bunch of brick walls. If you can't explain it, than that says a lot Telling me that I am wrong without telling me why I am wrong ("You don't Understand" is not telling me why I am wrong by the way) The only artistic merit is the fact that Lelouch spoiler[died repenting, the problem is that his screwing it up because his killing more while trying to repent for killing people. Also I must apologize, the interview was not from Continue 42, but from Continue 47. —–”Still, isn’t it possible that defeating the wise ruler Schneizel, the person who was supposed to have brought order to the world, might lead to some [viewers] interpreting it as a Bad End?” Okouchi: “That’s true. There are probably a lot of people who think of it as a Bad End, a tragedy, considering the protagonist’s, Lelouch’s end as well. As you can see Okouchi does say that people see Schneizel's defeat as a bad thing] |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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@pparker:
Reasons which apparently have everything to do with me not having seen much Romantic Comedy, right? Because your assertions about how refreshing the characters are don't hold much water. Now, as to me not having seen much RomCom, might I remind you that I am currently watching Kimi ni Todoke? It is a great show which does have great characters; which does avoid being completely cliched; which is very, very funny; and which does present high-school romance that - while dramatised up - still manages to be far and away more realistic than what Toradora! shoves upon us (mostly piles of ####). I'm sorry Ms. Takemiya, but real people simply don't work the way you think they do. |
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The King of Harts
 Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
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dtm42, do your feelings get hurt when people love shows you hate? Whether it be Gurren Lagann, Eva, Haruhi 2, or Toradora, you throw these huge fits and tell all of us how wrong WE are when the stats of any anime-based website tells YOU that YOU'RE in the minority. Usually you're a pretty decent dude on the internet, but my goodness, you get so pissy and defensive when something like this arises. It's unbelievable. I just don't understand why you become so high and mighty about it and feel the need to always tell us that we "should know better".
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