Forum - View topicNEWS: Japan's Animation Blu-ray Disc Ranking, October 7-13
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
musouka
Posts: 709 |
|
|||||||||||
Just to let you know, there was one High Speed light novel. It is not a series of light novels, and, due to the way Free was structured, it's unlikely to become a series. (Though a spin off involving Haru and Makoto's days in middle school wouldn't be unwelcome by yours truly.) Also, K-On and Lucky Star still had an established fanbase before they were animated. KyoAni helped propel them into stardom, yes, but they were still published in a magazine you could buy off the shelves before they were animated. High Speed was a novel that was entered into KyoAni's competition and was unreleased to the general public in any form. Saying that it's like Lucky Star and K-On is like saying there's no such thing as an original anime, because all of them must come from plot treatments.
There is a difference between fannish women and women in general. I assumed you knew we were discussing the former, not the latter. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
|
|||||||||||
|
Technically, Free! is a sequel to a light novel that wasn't even published when the anime started. The concept and characters are from the light novel, but the high school setting and plot are original.
As for the budget, we can't know exactly how much was spent on each episode, but the quality of the animation speaks volumes. Edit: musouka explained the light novel thing better than I could. As for josei titles, I love 'em, but 1. They are few and far between 2. They generally don't become hits (actually, has any Noitamina show been a hit? What's the biggest shojo/josei hit?) 3. They aren't aimed at Fujoshi |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Maidenoftheredhand
 Posts: 2633 |
|
|||||||||||
|
^ If you are talking anime then I think it would be Honey & Clover which sold about 11000 DVDs.
But yeah Josei can do good in terms of manga sales but doesn't usually hit it big in terms of anime. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Jave
 Posts: 198 |
|
|||||||||||
Amnesia and BC selling mediocre doesn't really change that they still sold way more DVDs than BDs. Seems kinda underhanded to dismiss them just because it contradicts what you want to believe. If Diabolik Lovers does the same ratio will you still dismiss the trend? What about other shows like Sekai-ichi?  How many shows will it take so you don't dismiss 'em? You're kinda being unreasonable here when people provide evidence of a trend and you still say the trend doesn't exist.
Nah, UtaPri isn't an otaku thing. UtaPri's sales are influenced by the BD coming packaged with an event ticket. That's why the first volume sold so high compared to the later ones. I suppose if fujoshi have an incentive to buy BDs like getting event tickets then yeah they'll buy BDs, but for shows that don't have those sales gimmicks they tend to choose DVD usually. Gatta look out for those ticket/promo gimmicks which boost some series sales. Hey, have you seen some of those shonen/seinen shows? They don't exactly shy away from the boy lingering and homo-eroticism  You'd be surprised what shows are billed as shonen and seinen. Every single KyoAni show so far has been a shonen or a seinen so why would you not assume this one is also one? There's a lot more evidence to suggest it is than it isn't. Kinda funny to point out that it seems like a lot of the more popular shows with women are aimed at men. Kuroko no Basket, Tiger & Bunny, Hetalia, all aimed at dudes so this wouldn't be the first time women co-op'd a series from guys so it's just worth keeping an open mind about it. You accuse other people of being patronizing and gasping at the straws but you're being kinda unreasonable here with just dismissing all the reasoning and evidence and won't even consider alternatives.
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Rivailloli
 Posts: 562 Location: Virginia |
|
|||||||||||
The UtaPri event ticket was only in vol. 1, not the rest of the volumes that still sell more BDs than DVDs. A show for women will usually have a higher amount of DVDs than the average show aimed at men, but there will still be BD sales more than likely. Women buy BDs. It's very obvious this 'trend' is starting to change. You seriously can't be so stupid as to think only men buy BDs and women only buy DVDs? Even shows like Highschool DxD sell DVDs and more than likely those DVDs are not all bought by women. Actually, this show gives more evidence to be aimed at women than men considering the characters design, how they are sexualized, the merchandise they are offering, and how this was advertised. Free! has been promoted mostly in magazines aimed at women also it was promoted with a huge spread in a station near otome road. And every other studio probably has more works aimed at men than women, would you say their shows that have a female demographic aren't really aimed at them since many of their other shows have been for men? Also, what shounen/seinen sexualize their male characters like they do in Free!? Examples would actually be nice. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Maidenoftheredhand
Posts: 2633 |
|
|||||||||||
|
Of course Free! is for men. Now that it is selling well it proves it is for guys because we all know women don't buy anime.
Free! was only for women when the show was just announced and it obviously was going to be a failure, because women don't buy anime. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
musouka
Posts: 709 |
|
|||||||||||
|
UtaPri's first volume sold well because of the event ticket, yes, but that same event ticket came with the DVD version too. If fangirls "prefer" DVD, there's no reason for the BD to be higher than the DVD sales for the second season, since you'll get the exact same goodies.
In fact, what's really interesting to note is that the DVD and BDs of UtaPri are the same price, meaning that the people that bought the BD did so out of actual preference, not because of exclusive pack ins (like T&B). Futhermore, if you look at the sales data for the original UtaPri, you'll notice that the split between DVD and BD was 60% to 40%, in DVD's favor. Now, for the second series, those numbers are roughly reversed with 43% going to DVD and 57% going to BD. That shows a pretty clear trend: male otaku are gobbling up shows aimed at wo--wait, wait, sorry, nope...women are buying more BDs! Oh, and in case you were curious, so far, Free has pretty much the exact same divide as UtaPri 2000%. 40% DVD and 60% BD. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Stuart Smith
 Posts: 1298 |
|
|||||||||||
Are you aware Sailor Moon was influenced by male-targetted shows like Cutey Honey and Super Sentai? I don't really think this fandom has any place for this nerd tribalism you're trying to enforce given the rich history and intertwining of demographics and influences. There's no need for segregation or drawing lines in the sand; if you care more about hanging a No Homers sign outside your treehouse than people enjoying these shows, I think you should re-evaluate why you watch anime in the first place -Stuart Smith |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Jen Bigby
 Posts: 112 |
|
|||||||||||
Are any of you capable of responding to people without acting so condescending and pompous? This is ridiculous. I can totally see why no one bothers bringing it up if this is the way you're going to act towards them. No one's going to WILLINGLY bother to talk with you with this kind of attitude. At least that's how I feel after the last time this issue popped up. Sheesh.
Reborn and Yu-Gi-Oh do a nice job for me Fairy Tail is pretty good too. And more females are into Fairy Tail than men are if you look at the numbers... Naruto's probably pretty popular with women too since they practically shove that NaruSaku stuff in your face.
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Agent355
Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
|
|||||||||||
|
It might be a bit tribal, but it was the Japanese manga industry that divided their wares into gendered demographics. But maybe that was a good thing, because when people consciously create with women and girls in mind, more media is made in more genres, and more women get involved in its creation and production.
Look at how divided and gendered entertainment media tends to be in general, and how not having an equal and respected niche for girls, the way shoujo is to shonen, keeps media for girls in a smaller, often mocked box. It's a symptom of sexism in larger society. Denying that there is less media made for females and pushing the concern aside only makes the problem worse. Everyone can, and should, enjoy shoujo, josei, BL and Yaoi. If companies get an impression that only men buy media, they will offer more to men and less shojo, josei, BL, and Yaoi will be made. The best example of this is how American comic book companies apparently think only men buy their comics. There are less female creators, female characters aren't given equal weight, and when female fans complain, they're basically told that they aren't the core audience anyway. Tribal and sexist? Absolutely. But not because people point out that its tribal and sexist. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
CrowLia
 Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
|
|||||||||||
|
It's pretty rich telling us "you're all acting like mob-mentality condescending feminazis" when we took months of guys putting down Free and the female market because "women don't buy anime", "KyoAni should stick to otaku" "stop this fujoshi crap". If you're going to say "that doesn't justify being condescending and aggressive", please save it. If you really expect women to take all the crap from deffensive over-sensitive otaku and stay quiet about it you can go look some other place. I'm sick of people telling us we can't brag and feel proud about the female market making a twist over the last couple of seasons because we're being "agressive".
Honestly, if these kind of otaku are the ones that get "offended" by our rubbing the success of this and other series on their faces, I have nothing to feel ashamed of.
These are just a handful I picked from the 50+ pages thread of Free!'s announcement. Pages after pages of people saying Free would sell like garbage because women don't buy anime. At most, guys like Ryan were betting it wouldn't pass the 10K mark by much -if it did- Funnily enough some people said "if it doesn't sell more than 30K it's not a success" -and nobody expected it to sell 30K because almost nothing does-. It just figures that, the moment it does sell 30K, people come back to say "well, it's not a success because it's not selling like Bake" (you yourself said it in the previous thread) and later on "well, it's only a success because men are buying it" and the even more hilarious "it was never a women-aimed show to begin with. IT'S SHONEN". It's clear these people can't make up their minds and are just grasping at straws so as to never ackowledge that women do buy anime and that anime aimed at women can be successful. So of course those of us who are happy that a big budget anime studio decided to bet for the female market and is also getting a good payoff out of it, are going to get deffensive and agressive, because seriously, we've been going on and on about this shit for half a year now. It just escapes me why people can't get over the success of one fujoshi show when there are still 10+ otaku shows being made per season Last edited by CrowLia on Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:57 am; edited 2 times in total |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Draneor
 Posts: 355 |
|
|||||||||||
I suppose that's technically true, but not necessarily how it always works out in practice. Jump, of course, being the classic example of a magazine that is technically shounen but whose actual readership is roughly split between genders (last I read). I'm not really sure how much meaning "shoujo," "shounen," etc have in terms of actual readership. Beyond the niche stuff anyway. In terms of anime, likewise, the audience for a show like K-On! was roughly 60 male /40 female while black butler was 70 female 30 male (and even Strike Witches 2 had 10% female viewership). We don't have a lot of data but I'd be surprised if most of the top selling properties didn't appeal to both genders in some fashion (Gundam, Haruhi, Bakemonogatari, etc). And in case it wasn't clear, all of the above was referring to the Japanese audience. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Maidenoftheredhand
Posts: 2633 |
|
|||||||||||
Apparently sarcasm goes over your head. My response was to a certain type of poster who I wouldn't really want to talk to anyways with their sexist attitudes. So if they don't want to talk to me, no loss. Anyways I think many people (including yourself) are missing the point why some of us are so upset. I do not care that guys enjoy Free! or any series made for women. In fact I am extremely happy that guys might be helping with the sales for female series and don't think it is beneath them to watch "series for girls" (because I do see that attitude from some guys) As a woman I enjoy and purchase many series targeted at guys so I don't see the difference. My problem is with the so called sexist guys who before Free! aired made a big hoolah how the series would be a failure because series for women don't sell and that Kyoani was betraying their fans because god forbid they made a series for women etc etc. However now that the series is selling these same people turn around "like the hypocrites they are" and start saying Free! is only selling because guys are buying it and oh wait Free! is not a series for women at all. Please note I don't care about target audience and of course I realize that series can and often do reach outside their target demographic, I think that is fantastic. My problem is with posters who think anime is a "man's only club" and that women should stay out. That women don't deserve to have series made specifically for them, or that they "have enough already". And finally if a woman's series does have success it's not because of women because women don't support the industry. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Agent355
Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
|
|||||||||||
|
Yes, women and girls enjoy properties made with boys and men in mind. That's an old, tired argument akin to the idea that girls will watch shows with male protagonists. Let's switch it around: what's the male audience for shows and manga made for women? Should less shoujo be made because boys are, statistically less likely to consume it than girls are shonen? Even Black Butler runs in a shonen magazine.
When an industry actively stops trying to pursue female consumers, you end up with *less* variety. Shoujo and josei still hold plenty of meaning for its primarily female audience. I just can't see something like Princess Jellyfish or NANA originating from a shonen magazine. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Draneor
Posts: 355 |
|
|||||||||||
I'm not sure who you're addressing but if it's me, my point was--in case it wasn't clear--using shounen or shoujo as terms to indicate audience (instead of what magazine a title runs in) doesn't always make a lot of sense in practice. That's it. Similarly, for anime, reducing K-On!, for example, to a strictly male property ignores the sizable female audience and female staff that helped make it a success. It was not intended to be an argument for or against making more or less of any kind of anime or who bought Free (since we have no data thus the default assumption would be women). Regarding male audience for female-targeted properties, we don't have a lot of data I am aware of. Anecdotally, we know many children's shows--like precure--have a sizable male audience. It be interesting to see what some of the earlier noitaminA viewership was (say for Nodame or Nana). |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group