Forum - View topicAre dubs going extinct?
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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With the increase in popularity in streaming anime where dub versions are slim pickings and DVD slowly losing ground in the physical media realm (the death of hard subbing is being paved by BluRays but that just makes subtitles more appealing and dubs less appealing).
Subtitling technology can change and advance, dubbing still requires a cast and a creative team. Tight budgets to maximize profits will hardly make subs less appealing, while voice actors are seeing opportunities fly out the window. The anime industry is shifting into more fan oriented and fans are maturing into more Japanese oriented, so a lower and lower proportion of consumers demand dubs that may not keep up with the increasingly mainstream exposure of anime entertainment in Western nations. Even if you say dubs will always be there, how much of the shrinking demand will drive costs of dubbed anime up so high that effectively dub only fans become the uber-niche anime crowd? |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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In before sub vs. dub debate!
And for most titles, sub-only is an automatic no-buy for me. Out of my entire collection (200+ titles), I can think of only two that only have subs, and one of those two I got without realizing it had no dub. So, if dubs are indeed going away, then that means my purchasing of new anime will like-wise go away. I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way about it, either. |
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yotsubafanfan
 Posts: 653 |
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I hope not, I enjoy watching both dubs and subs for anime, I know Funimation isn't going to stop dubbing anime any time soon, (Well they better not, Season 5 of Hetalia is coming soon and they're the only ones that can turn a semi funny japanese anime into a masterpiece!)
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Probably. I think the companies involved have given up attempts at branching out to new audiences in a more conservative approach to take fewer risks and maximize the odds of their survival. It's a likely inevitable result monetary troubles since, as you said, it's the easiest cost to trim and the hardcore fanbase they can depend on is often indifferent.
I don't think they'll go extinct outright, but they will likely become rarer and rarer, eventually only seen in major productions with guaranteed market value (such as Ghibli productions).
Sterile conjecture, and certainly not backed up by the information out there. The industry isn't becoming "fan oriented", because if that were the case they would cater to the broadest range of fans available. Like it or not some people prefer dubs, whether you do or don't, and catering only to a limited portion of a fanbase is not being "fan oriented". The implication that people who like or prefer dubs are somehow not fans is honestly somewhat insulting. Plus, sales and streaming numbers in general are down. Even participation on fansites has noticeably dropped over the past 4 or 5 years. The indication isn't so much that fans are become "Japanese oriented" as if the fanbase is some kind of assimilating hive-mind entity, but rather the niche bubble has burst and along with a recession companies are being inspired to be a bit more cautious. You stand to lose a lot more producing dubs for a failed title due to the added costs, while it's relatively safe to release a sub-only title without that added cost. With the market, particularly this market, being in the state that it is; it's frankly not in the best interest of these companies involved to take on added risk. It's not a sign of some magnificent sub-cultural paradigm shift as you imply, but more the result of shaky economic conditions and standard defensive business models.
Yeah, about that, people better not take it down that road. You hate dubs, fine, keep it to yourself, this isn't about whether you'll miss them or hate them. It's about the future of dubs and whether they will continue or not and related aspects, such as the economics of it and so on. If people try to turn it in to a soapbox to preach about their opinion on dubs versus subs they will find their time in this thread cut short quickly. There are plenty of places for that argument and it is one that has been rehashed a million times ad nauseum. Last edited by Keonyn on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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Do you have anything to support any of your claims. My opinion is that since dubs are a significant extra expense for the publishers they would not exist if they were not necessary. I also think that the increased mainstream exposure or anime, assuming that your statement is true, is due to dubs. Is anime without dubs showing in major theaters? Are TV networks showing anime without dubs? Those are not rhetorical questions. I really do not know anything about what is happening with movies and TV, and I am a bit curious. Personally I can tolerate anime without a dub if I really, really like the show, but if dubs ceased to exist I would probably stop buying anime. |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I agree with Keonyn. We've definitely seen a larger amount of sub-only releases, mostly in the niche titles ... but the big anime releases have had dubs.
I actually feel like in the long run this could actually be a good thing, because it might mean we get more of the niche titles licensed because companies know that sub-only will still sell, albeit in smaller numbers. I don't know how much the savings are overall but I've always gotten the impression that dubs can be pretty costly. That said, the English VAs still seem to draw good crowds at the conventions I've been at so there definitely is still lots of appeal for that. And heck, maybe having less dubs will mean more time/effort goes into the ones that we do get. So yes, I think dubs are dying out a bit but I do not think they will ever completely go away. It's just yet another change of this lovely little industry we're fans of. |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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Are anime with dubs showing, other than Ghibli/BV releases and the seldom Fathom event? Dubs are important to gaining a wider audience, but catering directly to the fans seems to be a more financially secure option. We're still in a transition period now, and I find it's hard to make any real claims either way of how the industry will end up, on dubs, BluRay, cost, or anything. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6528 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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It seems to me that dubs are largely financed by DVD / BD sales, rather than TV broadcast sales. Given that I believe that, thanks to streaming - legal or otherwise - the era of the DVD / BD is coming to an end, then I think that, in the short term, dubbing will die out with it.
It's all very well to say we want a hard copy of our favourite anime, but we aren't the future. The future are the current 10-14 year olds who don't share our commitment to the product. The future of anime lies in simulcast on-line broadcasting. When a Crunchyroll type company reaches the point that dubbing their product will generate enough new views to make it profitable then dubbing will make a comeback. Last edited by Errinundra on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
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niche titles will probably has no dubs because it's niche. A dub won't help the sale that much.
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teknokrat
 Posts: 25 |
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A statement you hear often in the tech blogosphere (though sometimes true). However, on the decline != extinction.
I think there will be a balance between the two at least in the near future. We are obviously not in the dub-almost-everything days of ADV/Geneon/Bandai, but there is still a large enough demand for dubs that we will see them exist for a while for titles that can support it (opinion, of course). Funimation's entire business model is counting on it, and dubs can be a major factor in converting new fans, even if they later warm up to subs. Streaming does change the equation a bit, but look at the prevalence of collectors in the fandom and the real revenue opportunities for rightsholders for streaming versus ownership - I don't think the streaming model will completely dominate ownership anytime soon from a revenue perspective, but 10 years from now? Who knows... For the record, I was converted to an anime fan through dubs so I recognize their value and importance, but now mostly prefer subs except when a good quality dub is available, such as recent Funimation dubs. |
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Saffire
 Posts: 1256 Location: Iowa, USA |
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The reaction this thread is getting surprises me a lot. The era of everything getting a dub is over (and has been for several years), but it seems to have held steady for a while now. I can't think of any high-profile title in the last couple years that hasn't gotten a dub (which would be my red flag for the death of dubs). Funimation still dubs basically everything they license. Sentai's got a good stable of dubbed titles. Aniplex dubs a fair amount. Etc etc.
So, I guess I have to wonder, what exactly are people seeing that makes them think dubs are dying? Home video certainly is, but most distributors have their dubs available streaming as well. If you're looking at proportions, then there's probably a decline, but that's misleading because there's way more anime available now than ever before thanks to simulcasts. I think if you just count the number of dubbed titles over the last few years it probably hasn't changed much. I dunno, maybe I'm way off base (there's absolutely nothing backing anything I said), but I haven't felt like dubs are worse off than they were, say, 3 years ago. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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1) Aniplex: their titles admittedtly tend to be expensive, but they cater to hard core fans who want extras and premiums. I think that contingent of the market will never go away despite the recession and the risk of profiting off the exclusive rather than the masses. 2) NISA and Sentai: If dubs are not going away then surely neither are sub-only fans. These two companies know that and they benefit from that knowledge. Touma your reply made me realize another aspect of the recession is that so many young anime fans do not have disposable incomes, they are college students barely scraping by due to rising costs of education and living. Non-students are poor or jobless either because they lack education or their educational expenses keep them strapped to living near parents where opportunity may be minimal. Times are tough but that doesn't stop people from loving anime. Poor anime fans resort to watching fansubs and that hurts the industry. But with the existence of fans who don't like subbed anime, there are at least people who have an incentive to buy anime because that's the only way they can get it in the format they prefer. So I appreciate the dub-only watchers in your contribution to the existence of anime in North America, even if that means buying Funimation titles (and I know they are not the only ones with affordable dubbed DVD options). And please don't misunderstand and think I'm implying that dub fans are poor cheapskates. To clarify I'm pointing out that people who simply cannot afford to buy anime might overlook a fansub in favor of a DVD because of those who happen to prefer dubs and will find ways to fit that purchase into their budget. |
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KLAC
Exempt from Grammar Rules
 Posts: 1122 |
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don't you even think of that give dubs will keep on going besides give it needed in anime world.
cause help expand showing anime in other languages to hear different kinds of accents & voices of many type worldwide. besides we need dubs anime. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18195 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Although I don't time to assemble the hard numbers to back it up, I'm pretty sure that an accounting of anime titles released on hard copy over the past two years would show that the percentage of all releases that are dubbed is actually higher than what it was in 2009. And Sentai is the main swing company on that. When they started out, they weren't dubbing anything; now at least half of their releases are getting dubbed, and they've even gone back and dubbed some titles that they didn't during the initial release. That's more than enough, I'm pretty sure, to balance out the addition of NISA, Aniplex, and Diskotek's subbed-only offerings. Don't forget that Inuyasha: The Final Act is finally getting dubbed, too, and it looked for quite a while like it wouldn't.
Now, I'm not saying that the feasibility and availability of dubbed anime might not take a turn for the worse again in the near future, but at least at the moment it's on the uptic. Why? Because for all of the claims that the young, unmonied masses are the driving force behind anime, the older fans who do have the money are more likely to want dubs. And since they're the ones that are paying, companies like Funimation, Sentai, and Viz are still going to keep catering to them. I'm not ready to give up the ghost on physical media just yet. Companies are realizing that some titles just aren't worth a dub but can still make money if released sub-only, and that's a more sustainable model that we saw back in the mid-2000s. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Hm, I doubt it. English dubs can be an invaluable marketing tool. People tend to want to watch things in the language they speak. If anime dubs disappear, anime will become increasingly niche and the licensors will probably start having to charge more for less. So I guess I just hope they don't disappear, even if I normally watch mostly the Japanese versions myself.
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