Forum - View topicNEWS: 19-Year-Old Charged for Threatening AKB48 Member
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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By that logic of you might as well preemptively arrest everyone.
And how many people who post threatening or hateful messages actually act on it? How do you know they're just not trolling? Or even if they are sincere in their emotions how do you know they'd actually murder someone? If you say jailing someone is ok just for some threatening speech posted online, then why stop there? What's the difference with someone who's prudent enough to keep quiet and then commit a crime he's thinking of? The only way to justify any arrest isn't based on the content of speech--which could simply be unstated and would not stop the criminal's intent. It should be based upon acts. Acts or evidence of acts that pose an imminent physical threat, like anything that is invasive of property or stalking or physical evidence of plans, etc. This completely does away with the problem of speech, since again, the criminal could just keep quiet or lie about his intent. In lieu of that, the other party him/herself or through a proxy would only be justified, in terms of rights, to act in a tit-for-tat manner. That is, no arrest, but you can threaten them back. Engage and tell the dude off. |
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Myaow
 Posts: 1068 |
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These are definitely good questions, and ones that I don't have any answers for. I certainly don't think that everybody who posts threats online should be immediately jailed, because that's wrong and ridiculous. Still, I know a lot of people look back on the Akihabara massacre and think "He posted his plans online! Why didn't anyone do anything to prevent the murders?" Cases like that are important to think about while we're discussing this kind of thing. |
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mdo7
 Posts: 6258 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Wow, that's messed up. Glad he's arrested, I agree with egoist, idols should be trained to deal with these paranoid obsessive fans. Also that's one thing I don't like about the Japanese idol culture, it put these singers in danger (I'm aware this also applied to our pop singers in US and Europe, and elsewhere, but when it comes to Japan, there are super obssesive paranoid fans) with these type of fans.
I agreed, but the problem is when a person post up a threat, it's hard to tell if the person is really going to do it, or not, Your Akhibara massacre is not the only example. The same applied for Virginia Tech massacre and the recent Aurora Colorado theater massacre. They both had shooters that had signs of mental problem and also being a threat, yet they ignored it and now look what happen, people died, injured and mentally scarred. After the massacre, people asked "this could've been all prevented if the authorities had able to stop the shooters before the massacre actually happened". So if I were Configspace, I would take any threat seriously, because if you ignore it, the threat could become a reality and could end up with people being killed. |
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Mr. sickVisionz
 Posts: 2173 |
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No, by my logic you arrest people who say that they plan on murdering someone. |
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Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 9844 Location: Virginia |
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When someone makes a death threat, it has to be investigated. It doesn't matter if it was by internet, phone call, letter or whatever. The arrest is the first step in the process. They didn't say he was going to jail forever. He will probably get probation or some sort of needed psychiatric treatment.
You don't get a free pass just because it was the internet. An adult sending a death threat to a young girl can't be ignored. |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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So I can send death threats to cute bunnies? |
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Surrender Artist
 Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
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But he was an otaku and we must protect the tribe against oppression! Today they might just be arresting people for threatening murder against people who don't appease their unhealthy delusions, but tomorrow they'll be putting jackboots on our throats! It is the logical progression of events.
Well, sure, but most of those clubs closed years ago. |
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Eri94
 Posts: 220 |
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And don't even try to go off saying drugs should/shouldn't be legal, that's not what I'm arguing nor is it relevant. |
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niokun
 Posts: 4 |
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Indeed, we never know what someone can or can't do for sure. But that doesn't mean we can arrest everyone because of something he said or wrote. Like configspace said, you first have to know who's the person that posted and what is he/she capable of. I wouldn't take death threats from my 10-year old cousin seriously, or potentially anyone that I know that can do nothing in their place, and this also includes to live-chats and so (japanese people are quite aggressive in MMO games too, so why should anyone bother?) I know, there's always the exceptions and all those massacres, but at the same time you can't let everything from everyone slide, you can't just arrest everyone that posts death threats on the internet. Is prision sentences the answer to everything that happens in real life and on the internet? Do you think they'll turn into good people once they get out (if they go)? And what if, instead of posting death threats, they simply go out and try to do something more extreme? Sometimes it's better think before act. |
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Mr. sickVisionz
Posts: 2173 |
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If you knew that you could face prosecution and possible jail time for threatening to kill people and you still run around doing it, you either want to go to jail or you're a psycho who probably shouldn't be on the streets to begin with. I refuse to believe that it's impossible for an adult to have or unreasonable to expect them to exhibit enough self-discipline and self-control to not run around saying they are going to murder people. Perhaps not everyone needs jail time if they were just some loser who thinks it's funny to make death threats, but some insane penalty should be in place. Like 3,000 hours of community service. Society is simply asking people not to be total and complete jackasses and threaten people's lives. I'm honestly shocked at how many here think that death threats should be protected speech and that punishment of those who make them will turn a society into some 1984, Nazi Germany, mind police, totalitarian society. |
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Alexis.Anagram
 Posts: 278 Location: Mishopshno |
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The "system" is created by people, and people are fallible. I'm a queer Indigenous person living in the U.S.; not so long ago, either of those factors could have gotten me jailed or worse based on various legal (and social) precedents. Was the law right then simply by virtue of the manner in which it was practiced? Did gay people deserve to be persecuted simply because the law was held to be true by a certain contingency of the population; perhaps individuals who believed in it as earnestly as you yourself do? Because my history teaches me that "the system" can do a lot of harm to innocent people who haven't done a thing wrong. That said, in this case I'm of the opinion that an investigation is warranted given that this was a public threat made against a relatively defenseless young person. I don't really see a sensible government making the jump from investigations into high profile death threats to preemptive action against "thought crimes." That's not to say I have any real faith in the law or government as "fair" or "blind" in general-- after all, I'm sure if the victim here wasn't of celebrity status with the media at their disposal this kind of threat would go generally unnoticed (in fact, as someone who has received numerous death threats that in my estimation were at least as serious as this one with no effective response from local law enforcement, I can attest to that personally); ultimately, the criminal justice system is just as political as any other facet of government. But it's what exists at the present point in time and when it can be useful it should be made to be. I guess. |
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Banden
 Posts: 140 |
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Why should we care? Because capital-J Justice is a cornerstone of a free democratic society? Because putting people away just because we feel like it is a despotic and cruel way to run a society? Because caring about other people is humane? Because the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights tells us all we should care? Take your pick. Suggesting we shouldn't care reflects more on your value system than the people you accuse of being morons. The war on drugs is relevant because it demonstrates how hyper-aggressive incarceration does more harm for society than good. I assume you haven't heard that "The global war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world"? This is not my personal opinion on the issue. The more that American drug policy is studied, the more clear it becomes that significant mistakes have been made at a government and law enforcement level. Laws and law enforcement are human constructs. They're not sacrosanct. Just because the system exists doesn't make it right. Just because someone breaks a law doesn't mean we have carte blance to come down hard on them because they're a moron and morons deserve to get put away. Japan, and the guy who made this threat, operate under a different system with different standards of crime and punishment, so this point is tangential, yes, but our mistakes can be just as much of a teachable moment for their society as it must be for ours.
I gotta say, it's sad and ironic that you bring up the Nazis. You've made several comments in this thread about how some people apparently just "deserve" to go to jail, because "you never know what someone is going to do", and how the chilling effects of this sort of arrest are such a win-win because of the potential to intimidate other Internet users into silencing their "over the top asshole nature". It's ironic because the Nazi's had a guy who was kind of famous for doing all these things that have you all excited. Maybe you've heard of him? Personally: I think those comments reflect a pretty mind-blowingly cruel and inhumane attitude. Our system of laws recognizes imprisonment as a punishment for committers of crimes, presumed innocent, and duly found guilty, not a convenient black hole for anyone we capriciously decide is a moron, don't think can be trusted, or just deserves to exit society. That's a pretty freaking despotic worldview. [Mod Edit: This is not a political forum, and what's more turning this in to a political soapbox regarding governments and actions that are not even relevant to this particular instance is an obvious attempt to hijack this thread for your own political agenda. - Keonyn] |
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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Godwin, thread over, Banden has officially lost the argument. |
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Surrender Artist
Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
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I was wondering why Banden had taken so long to draw a histrionic, irresponsible and loathsome comparison to the holocaust, albeit a bit coy, in the name of defending otaku.
Way to go for the brass ring! Too bad about your moral compass, though. |
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Banden
Posts: 140 |
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Thanks for the armchair quarterbacking guys, but if you actually read the funny words on the screen, he brought it up. I just brought it back full circle. Chagen I expect as much from. Surrender Artist? SMH. Talk about brass ring. |
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