Forum - View topicAre dubs going extinct?
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EricJ
 Posts: 876 |
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Anime has roots in fans guarding their physical-media series collections against floods, fire, frost, frippery, typhoons, earthquakes, etc., for posterity, for fear no one else would. The fact that it's been more accessible on disk may have spoiled the next generation, but it's still a market geared more for collectors than renters. You can watch it anywhere, but you wouldn't buy it unless you intend to KEEP it...And when old-school anime fans do, they do. As for dubs, we've reached a polarization in the industry: Out of three or four major labels, only ONE is physically/financially capable of dubbing series for broadcast, and unfortunately, they eventually saw more profit in being slacker goofballs retooling Sgt. Frog and Hetalia for the hopes of a hipster CN deal. So we seem to have come full circle back to the 90's days of skewed TV-sellout dubs (remember all the comparisons between Funi's Sgt. Frog and "Samurai Pizza Cats"?), or some underground sub-only collector archives coming out of RightStuf. Until we get a competing dub company to be the ADV or Pioneer to another company's Viz, there's pretty much a monopoly on dubs, that doesn't allow much discussion for what's a "good" and "bad" dub by today's standards. But to do that, we need a company with enough capital to license a series AND hire established VA's, and the former is tricky enough these days. The market's gone full circle back to the fan-niche companies doing subs by the seat of their pants to a fan-niche market. And the collectors go back to being what they were: Collectors archiving a show the way it was aired, on subbed shows from small niche labels. |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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I don't think that wanting to buy and keep anime makes a person a collector in sense that the word is usually used. I have not rented a disc for at least five years. I buy everything that I watch. I do not care about showing my collection, or the value of the item, or limited releases, or other things that I associate with "collectors." I just like to own things and have them on hand so that I can watch them whenever I feel like it. Maybe that does make me a collector but ...
I definitely do not fit that description. I do not care anything at all about the way the show was aired, and if it ever gets to the point when all that is available is subbed shows from small niche labels I will probably stop buying anime. I suspect that there are probably a significant number of others like me who will definitely support dubbed anime on disc. One reason that I doubt that physical media will become obsolete is that as high quality streaming becomes more common producing physical media will become much cheaper because the work needed for the subs and dubs will have already been done for the streams. As long as there is physical media being used for any type of entertainment it will also be used for anime. Since television has not killed physical media I doubt that Internet streaming will do it. And on the subject of dubs, I do not watch streams but from what I have been reading it seems like there are quite a few dubbed streams. If that is true then streams will probably not make dubs extinct. |
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Polycell
 Posts: 4623 |
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Funimation and Sentai stream their dubs, but those don't come until well after the series has finished its run.
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4093 |
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I could have sworn the anime market was older than that. On the home front, the "way it was" for collectors was hard subbed VHS tapes. And that was the minority. The way it was aired? What does that have to do with subs or dubs? And right, the main poster can say what he wants about bias but his topic post is, in effect, "It's not a question, this is what I think is happening so support me." I'm not here to validate his beef or argue subs or dubs, though I do want to say to sub only purists "why can't we be friends?", ah, I mean "why can't we have both?". My own basic belief is thus: Dubs are the ultimate special feature, sometimes doubling the amount of entertainment the anime release offers {though dubbed openers and closers are going extinct} as well as offering more reasons what a certain show/release would have concerning purchase points. So, yes, I'm willing to pay more for more entertainment. Mmm, money talks. Except for the niche releasers whose every get of a show I want to get is a getgone. Toradora, always comes down to Toradora... One last thing: Viz is dubbing shows I actually want. I don't how that happened ... or why ... but as long as they don't go all AoA on me with Japanese style DVDs/BDs, I will end up with a few Viz titles in my collection. The market has changed, hasn't it? One last thing, really. The way BDs are going, the Japanese may get to the point where they prefer dub only releases. I have noticed that many of Sentai's new releases are not only sub only but also DVD only, as well as Funimation's dubbed DVDs sans BDs. The final thing: If the whole anime market is largely predicated on selling DVDs/BDs in Japan then why would anyone think streaming is going to be the sole source in the future? Logically, wouldn't anime production evolve if not outright die before worldwide streaming supplants DVD/BD sales? |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23824 |
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For me, Funi is the canary in the coal mine. If they go boobies up, then I'd worry for the future of dubs in the R1 region. If they change their "we dubz it all, y'all" policy, then I'd worry for the future of dubs in the R1 regions. Absent those signs, I ain't gonna worry.
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Exaar
 Posts: 279 Location: Delaware |
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I definitely consider myself a collector, with literally thousands of dollars in anime on DVD and Blu-ray, and personally I love dubs. I think they have gotten better and better over the years, to the point where now a bad dub is the exception rather than the rule. A good localization, even one which changes the script to make it more suited to the ENglish language, is to me infinitely superior to an accurately-translated sub for the simple reason that I am not a native Japanese speaker. Nothing in Japanese will ever sound as natural and entertaining to me as a well-performed dub in my own language.
If we see a decline in dubs, I can only think it would be for financial reasons. As people have said, they're expensive. There ARE some titles which are released sub-only, but they tend to be only the super-niche titles which people aren't expecting to sell a whole lot. It's just not worth it. Otherwise though I don't think they are going away. I can't think of a single set I've bought in the past few years that has been sub only, and I at least a dozen sets a year. I also watch streaming through legit sites, but I also buy the dvd release of those same shows, and will enjoy watching them dubbed if i've only seem then subbed before, as it a fresh experience that lets me enjoy the show all over again. So no, I don't think dubs are going extinct. |
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EricJ
Posts: 876 |
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In the old days, when Sailor Moon was available to buy, you didn't want to buy the Cloverways version. It was nice to have A dub on the later Pioneer disks to listen to or show mainstream newbies, just not THAT dub.
It's not "purists", the war's been over for fifteen years. Dubs are fine, and there are some shows I now watch more in dubs than in subs, simply because they fit the show "better". And there are some I.....do not. (Have to admit, I actually prefer watching xxxHolic in the Funi dub, just for Colleen's Yuuko, although I confess that as perfect Todd Haberkorn's hysteria-act as Watanuki is ideal for the character, I can't help thinking it's his exact same thinks-he's-a-spastic-ad-lib-hoot motormouth voice from Sgt. Frog. And that just brings down the level of discussion, no matter how good the series, and reminds us that right now we dub fans are all just slaves to a bunch of ADD slackers at Funi HQ...And that much harder for respectable discerning anime fans to find sanctuary from the spreading Western cultural poison of "Kids who think Family Guy is funny."  )
We're not talking about the "declining" quality of dubs or the declining market, we're talking about the fact that nobody else can afford to make them anymore--because broadcast now has to pay for the dub bills, and CN won't show anything that's not either drug-laced or serial action--and older fans have to teach the younger ones how to survive and stick together against being culturally "snubbed" like they were in the old days. Of course, back then, we did it with VHS tape, not Crunchyroll. 
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18214 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Er, huh? Who are you saying, exactly, has this supposed monopoly? Of the three first-run anime on Toonami right now, one is a Viz title and two are Funi titles. (Okay, I guess S7 isn't technically a first-run title since it did air on another network, but it's first-run by Toonami/AS standards.) Deadman Wonderland, which recently finished, was a Funi title. And Funi's hardly "sold out" fully for the "slacker goofball" approach; those dubs have always been the exceptions rather than the rules for them.
That's pretty much where I sit, too (although I've rented a disc much more recently than that). |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I like to own discs for one main reason: I do not trust my computer. I've had a few crashes over the years and each time I have lost a fair amount of files, mainly music. A good deal of said music was downloaded (illegally, admittedly) and I did not end up getting it back. And the rest I had to re-rip from my CD collection which involved a fair amount of time (as would re-downloading it all from iTunes, which I know you can do).
While I know DVDs are not perfect, in general they seem the much more dependable option. And so if there's a series I want to be able to re-watch, I like to own a physical copy of it. |
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Vata Raven
 Posts: 710 Location: TN |
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An external harddrive would be a good thing to have. And people recommend to backup the computer once a week, but once a month will also do. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5842 Location: Virginia, United States |
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I have been collecting anime since the Eighties. I watched and owned titles like Arion, Iczer One, Dominion Tank Police, Gallforce, and BubbleGum Crisis without dubs or subs on Laserdiscs, because I had no choice in the matter. Just had to figure out what was happening through the action.
As with that, I watch subs only when I have no choice in the matter. It is annoying trying to read the subtitles and watch the anime at the same time, but you train yourself to do that. So I prefer dubs, even when they are not so good. For me, it allows me to focus on the anime better, which in turn allows me to enjoy it better. The economy goes up and down. So will dubs. We make do with what we have and go from there. That said, I really need to find a sub of Arion, some day. |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I have one. I don't feel like filling it up with anime when I can buy the DVDs instead. |
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EricDent
 Posts: 997 Location: Georgetown, TX |
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Just a quick mention concerning physical media.
As I work in a electronics store that sells DVDs & Blu-Rays. I have actually seen quite a few people buying MORE DVDs & Blu-Rays than anything involving a streaming device (such as a Roku). There are still areas of the country that don't have the broadband capability to stream everything, plus not everybody can afford the costs of Internet either. I also noticed that quite a few people are buying "rabbit ears" (or similar antenna), perhaps cause they are tired of paying the cable/satelight companies. As for the future of dubs, I also hope they stick around. I am technically old enough to have lived during the "fan-sub VHS" days, but never personally experienced it. Those were apparently RAW (non subbed) copies of shows that you could get fan-written scripts for. Apparently the VHS copies got so bad that you could barely see the show sometimes. That's also why ADV got into the business in the first place (IE they were tired of crappy VHS tapes). I know that when VHS was being sold at retail stores, you had an option of dub-only & sub-only. The thing people don't mention is that 95% of the time the dub-only version was cheaper (by about $5-$10). As far as Section 23 goes, it's great they are dubbing more stuff. However they need to expand their roster of talent. I love Hillary Haag, but there is no need to have her do 3-4 voices for a show (The World God Only Knows for example). |
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Mesonoxian Eve
Posts: 1858 |
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While I don't discount your reasons as being legitimate, the real reason people are still buying DVD/BDs is because these movies aren't streaming. And it's by design. Take a look at any online service: Amazon, Netflix, and even Hulu (which is owned by the damned studios), and you'll see the same cheesy second-release titles. You'll not find any first-release titles. There are a few, but the total should be much, much higher. In fact, by the time they're released on streaming services, they've pretty much become second-release titles. If there's one thing I do appreciate about anime, it's that they're trying to give people options. I'm not comfortable with the way they're treating streaming, but I'll take anything I can get at this point. Because for me, I hate owning plastic disks, especially under the pretext of extortion, which is what this system is built on. I don't think it's right, to force people to buy with the threat of "because one day, you'll never see it again". This is why I love piracy, because it's finally forcing the hands of those who constantly whine about lost sales, only to discover the best of both worlds. Anime, to me, has always been free. The show should sell the product. If a series is something I want to own, I'll be more than happy to oblige. But as one who owns over 300 titles, I can attest most of what's in my collection will never be seen again. Making the threat rather moot, right? Trust me, everyone's collection is like this. It's a statistical fact, because there will be a time one's collection will get to the point it will be impossible to re-watch everything while staying abreast of new releases. In anime, this gets even worse, because we're not talking about a 2 hour movie, but nearly 6 hours of a 12 episode series. This explodes, of course, with series having more episodes or seasons. Dubbed anime comes with this extortion, in my opinion. We're constantly told the only way to appreciate anime is to buy shit we don't want. While streaming is profitable, I can also accept the truth it's not profitable enough to sustain a dub on every single title a streaming site would offer. One of these days, each and every single one of you will look at your collection much differently than you do today. I didn't believe it either, but it does happen. And when you finally take the step to start reducing it (especially if you have to move), you'll learn just what "appreciation" truly is when most of what you sell can't even fetch a third of what you bought it for, and those are the bargain prices. Not every title sells like Cardcaptor Sakura or Sailor Moon and that's because not every title carries the nostalgia factor, which is what people are truly paying for titles like this. I concur physical media isn't going away any time soon, but it's also with the understanding it's because companies absolutely, positively will do anything possible to retain those higher profit margins because they can't figure out what to do in conjunction with the inevitable streaming the future will bring. I suspect in the next 5 years, R1's going to have a very, very different face to it and most of today's anime fans will not see it coming. |
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Lycosyncer
Posts: 526 |
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As long as Funimation is still around, I don't think dubs will be going away however with the downsizing of North American anime companies like with Geneon, the old ADV, and now Bandai, I truly fear for Funimation, Sentai, and even Viz for that matter since now those three are the only major companies that still produces dubs now and all I could say is that they better be smart in their business models.
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