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Ausdoerrt wrote:

LeanGreen wrote:

I think it's more an issue of the government not wanting excrement strewn across every street or forest or park in Japan, and an issue of a young girl's embarrassment than a widespread complex. Wink

It's all in ruins anyway, so who the hell cares? Plus, I was also talking about the fight in the line for the toilet.

Plus it's Bio-degradable. Wink

Kruszer wrote:

Ausdoerrt wrote:

LeanGreen wrote:

I think it's more an issue of the government not wanting excrement strewn across every street or forest or park in Japan, and an issue of a young girl's embarrassment than a widespread complex. Wink

It's all in ruins anyway, so who the hell cares? Plus, I was also talking about the fight in the line for the toilet.

Plus it's Bio-degradable. Wink

Ah, yes. Forgive me, I have a dog and as anyone with a dog might know their excrement bio-degrades VERY slowly.

Ausdoerrt wrote:

What I'm saying is, it seems unnatural that the people care. Sure, the gov't may be concerned with all of the above, but if the people in the anime are all such jerks as Emerje said, I'm surprised they're all lined up nice and proper, and follow the authorities' instructions. I'd expect some sort of chaos there; pushing in the crowd isn't that uncommon even without the disaster (even been in an Asian subway in rush hour?), but the real "jerks" are specifically pointed at and shaken finger at by the director. That's what I meant by saying it smells like propaganda - an educational video on how to obey the authorities. Especially the Mari-godie-two-shoes-san, who should've died by now because she puts herself in danger all the time, but in the show is made immortal like the two kids, and an "exemplary human being".

I agree that many of the "jerks" of the series are pointed at specifically (it was a bit ridiculous how Mari reacted so obviously to the girl who spilled ramen on Mirai) but when people are being supplied with most of the things they are concerning themselves with right now, the food, the emergency packs, a place to relieve themselves, why would they feel the need to act out? I think the people who did end up getting into fights, like those at the toilets, were not put there to show how mean people are, but rather because although this is obviously striving to be a realistic series, the director knows that he has to put his characters in situations which they have to overcome at all stages of the story. If an episode has no conflicts between people, don't you think you would be even more bored than you are now? The director and the staff of the show have to think up situations which are appropriate for what the characters are doing at the moment, also. They would quickly lose an audience if the only problems the group faced were the repetitive crumbling buildings even though there was potential for human interaction in such a large group of people.

Ausdoerrt wrote:

What I'm saying is, it seems unnatural that the people care. Sure, the gov't may be concerned with all of the above, but if the people in the anime are all such jerks as Emerje said, I'm surprised they're all lined up nice and proper, and follow the authorities' instructions. I'd expect some sort of chaos there; pushing in the crowd isn't that uncommon even without the disaster (even been in an Asian subway in rush hour?), but the real "jerks" are specifically pointed at and shaken finger at by the director. That's what I meant by saying it smells like propaganda - an educational video on how to obey the authorities. Especially the Mari-godie-two-shoes-san, who should've died by now because she puts herself in danger all the time, but in the show is made immortal like the two kids, and an "exemplary human being".

I think you read way too much into this. Things like disposable toilets come with being a civilized society. It's as much a mental thing as a sanitary thing. People that go camping bring portable toilets with them even if they're miles from civilization, it's part of separating ourselves from the animals. Besides, those disposable toilets come with toilet paper, who wouldn't want that? As for the director pointing out the jerks I don't see how you can see that as part of obeying the government when there isn't a rescue worker or officer running up to scold them every time. I don't see it as having anything to do with the government and propaganda and everything to do with showing the slow breakdown of modern society. My gripe is that it happened sooner than I think it would and maybe they could focus more on people like Mari because there will certainly be more people like her out there. The last episode showed a group of adults running up to the kids when they were crying so they certainly acknowledge that these people exist, but they seem to be more interested in focusing on their plights. That's not government propaganda, that's television drama. If anything they're showing the government slowly losing control.

Emerje

Add me to those who think the director isn't trying to shove a pro-government message down our throats. I think instead what they are trying to comment on is the way the very ordered Japanese society is just a veneer, at least for some people. When disaster strikes, a few will always disregard the normal rules and customs in their stress and panicked instinct to survive. So yeah, I think it is more a message on the tenuous grip of culture (and the lack of it in the basic human survival plan) rather than anything specifically to do with the government. Two men pushing and shoving in a line does not indicate a complete breakdown in society; it's a fight that could have happened at a rock concert.

As for the government, they aren't doing as well as they could have. It's not like nobody saw the quake coming; everyone and their dog knows that Tokyo is overdue for the Big One. Which means that disaster response plans should be better, especially given Japan's high level of technology. Sure, food and toilets have been set up just a day after the event, and the deployment of the military and firefighters was pretty quick. But when you have thirty million people to look out for, it just isn't good enough. Luckily most of the population are docile.

However, there seems to be a huge implicit criticism of the government in the amount of damage that has occurred. If anything there have been many many buildings and structures that weren't built to specifications. Tokyo Tower was designed to withstand an earthquake double the strength of the 1923 Great Kantō earthquake, which itself was magnitude 8.3 on the Richter. So it should have been able to handle a "mere" magnitude 8.0. Now, the earthquake depicted in Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 was extremely close (right in Tokyo Bay), but I'm still surprised that Tokyo Tower managed to fall over. It's possible that though it was designed to handle such a quake, it wasn't built that way by unscrupulous contractors, or perhaps it was built to specification but wasn't properly maintained over the decades. The same can be asked for the highways and bridge. Especially since the ones we saw would be new-ish, given that they were built in the late nineties.

So, I think there is criticism of the government, but it is implicit.

dtm42 wrote:

Tokyo Tower was designed to withstand an earthquake double the strength of the 1923 Great Kantō earthquake, which itself was magnitude 8.3 on the Richter. So it should have been able to handle a "mere" magnitude 8.0. Now, the earthquake depicted in Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 was extremely close (right in Tokyo Bay), but I'm still surprised that Tokyo Tower managed to fall over. It's possible that though it was designed to handle such a quake, it wasn't built that way by unscrupulous contractors, or perhaps it was built to specification but wasn't properly maintained over the decades.

I was wondering the same thing about it coming down. I came to the conclusion that Japan has changed a lot since the '20s between upwards development and sanitation modernization. The infrastructure would likely be weakened by things like sewers and subways. Couldn't help but notice that it was actually uprooting it's own foundation as it was falling, not simply collapsing or buckling over. It survived the initial quake, but the numerous severe aftershocks may have helped work it's foundation free allowing it to fall.

Emerje

Episode Five

Wow, what a sad and moving episode. I am not ashamed to admit that I welled up (just a little, but still). The looks on the faces of Mr. Furuichi, his wife and Mirai just carried the episode for me.

Looks like the Japanese army/Self Defence Force have deployed fairly fast. A mere day after the event and already they are handing out and some tents/groundsheets, and have set up outdoor soup kitchens. That's pretty fast, considering the level of destruction that the city has endured.

And hooray for the realism returning; they endured two more aftershocks and yet nothing overly dramatic happened except from some breaking glass.

Good to see the series returning to the top of its game. Oh yeah, CANAAN has nothing on this.

Latest episode managed to hit at an emotional level pretty well. They managed to get to Mirai's school, the flashback was a good adition to learne a bit of Mirai's relationship with her mother and she figured out what her mother thought at the time. Aswell as the millitary and vollanteer's helping out, especialy Mr. Furuichi who looked like the perfect example of showing some compassion.

A good moment though not really for anyone in the show was when she tried to spoiler[ show Yuki and Mari the stained glass, then the horifying scene of the dead and their families including one of Mirai's classmates.] It appears they are given a similar scene every episode, as if to remind them what the reality could be. And the story of Mr. Furuichi and his wife also hits the audience pretty well, especialy how powerful it hit Mirai and how she felt.

At least we are not exactly having a situation that where ever they go something gets destroyed, as the school is still standing. Though I thought it may have been a good idea for Mirai to maybe see if she could get her shoes if her sandels where still painfull, though something bad probably would have hapend. And the little bit after the credits was short and sweet, simply a news cast saying that phone lines were not set up yet and people were woried about family.

dtm42 wrote:

Looks like the Japanese army/Self Defence Force have deployed fairly fast. A mere day after the event and already they are handing out and some tents/groundsheets, and have set up outdoor soup kitchens. That's pretty fast, considering the level of destruction that the city has endured.

I don't know about the Japanese military force; however I'm in the employ of the Australian army reserve, in infantry corps. I've also been trained and am under contract for what is called the reserve readiness force, or RRF, which exists specifically for low level security ops and disaster relief. I don't know if any of you heard about the recent Victoria bushfires which destroyed large parts of Victoria and parts of South Australia and NSW, however RRF forces even up as far as Queensland were deployed pretty much straight away to do exactly the things the military is providing here; tents, stretchers, casevac, food, water, sanitary disposal (including, yep, you guessed it, portable sanitary disposal devices), and we also provide assistance to civpol and fire fighters.

The response time for the government intervention is not far-fetched at all - there are systems set up in place for a purpose, and people trained specifically to cope and respond to crises such as this. At the moment I'm on 24 hours to move if I get a callout, but when it hits the fan you better believe we're up and out as soon as physically possible.

Also, the story with old man Furuichi hit me pretty hard too. I'm not really happy with the animation quality of this anime, however the story and characters really do make up for it.

DuskyPredator wrote:

And the little bit after the credits was short and sweet, simply a news cast saying that phone lines were not set up yet and people were woried about family.

That's a real Japanese newsreader doing that, so Wikipedia says. Her name is Christel Takigawa. It is done to try and bring more realism into play, as many in the Japanese audience will know her in real life. So to hear her - and see her; apparently they used her likeness - reading the fictional news as if it were fact helps in the immersion. A nice touch, I think.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/08/09/japan.earthquake/index.html

I certainly pray there were no serious injuries, but it seems that the folks in Japan are fine and it wasn't too bad.

SailorDeath wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/08/09/japan.earthquake/index.html

I certainly pray there were no serious injuries, but it seems that the folks in Japan are fine and it wasn't too bad.

The extreme depth and well as the sizable distance from Tokyo would certainly mitigate the damage. I'm wouldn't at all surprised if there was no damage whatsoever.

Thanks for telling us about that though.

Episode 5 was very heavy in emotional content, but I think this episode was important in that it confirmed the purpose of this show; not to show flashy explosions or even the amount of damage earthquakes cause in structures as famous as those like the Tokyo Tower, but rather to show the effect catastrophes have on the individual and the circumstances people are thrust into. The center around Furuichi and his wife really hit home with a lot of people, it seems, and I am no different. What was really one of the most touching moments for me was when Furuichi said that he wants the young to live, and he wishes that he had been the once who died instead of his grandchildren. It really shows that when disaster strikes so many events are out of human control.

It was interesting to see Mirai's school, because I didn't think that they would return there anytime during the series. They had a good reason, though, since a school would be a decent place for shelter although they apparently were prevented from going inside due to the breaking glass. Seeing one of Mirai's classmates with a dead family member must have really made Mirai's eyes open up to the situation and the possibilities of what her other friends might have lost or be doing.

In my opinion, this is by far the best show of the summer season and it's still going strong.

I just noticed that the subs for this show left out Japanisms like the honorifics and things. "Fuhuri-san" (forgot what it was exactly) was "Mr. Fuhuri." Subs for the music also aren't there. I think makes things look more clean whitch fits for a more serious show like this.

For professionals who translate for DVDs, that kind of styling is expected and is standard protocol. I don't understand why fansubbers settle for sticking the tag after the persons name and expect the audience to just simply know what it implies/means.

dtm42 wrote:

Add me to those who think the director isn't trying to shove a pro-government message down our throats. I think instead what they are trying to comment on is the way the very ordered Japanese society is just a veneer, at least for some people. When disaster strikes, a few will always disregard the normal rules and customs in their stress and panicked instinct to survive. So yeah, I think it is more a message on the tenuous grip of culture (and the lack of it in the basic human survival plan) rather than anything specifically to do with the government. Two men pushing and shoving in a line does not indicate a complete breakdown in society; it's a fight that could have happened at a rock concert.

Well, I wasn't saying it was to that extent. It just kinda feels unreal. But then again, maybe I'm missing out on the culture - after all, earthquakes are a pretty common thing in Japan, it seems, so maybe the people are used to the procedure (don't they even have drills at school and such?). I'm just saying, if it were US or Europe, I'd expect panic and chaos. I'd also expect more panic and chaos in Japan, but maybe I'm underestimating the people and the gov't.

Regardless, I dropped the series since it feels boring for me and I'm not in for this kind of style (I dislike catastrophe drama about as much as I dislike environmental messages or moe), so I'll stop bothering you guys until I maybe find time to marathon through the thing.

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