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crilix



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:19 pm Reply with quote
*clap clap clap*

I'll be using this interview as reference for people who have no clue about yuri.
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Nerdboy Himself



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:52 pm Reply with quote
crilix wrote:
I'll be using this interview as reference for people who have no clue about yuri.


Hand them a boxset of R.O.D. the TV as well, just to be thorough.
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Kyaa the Catlord



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 300

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:33 pm Reply with quote
Once again, Erica shows that the women who do this article live on an entirely different planet than the majority of us. If you missed that Mai-Hime was focused on the women involved and not merely on how sexy they are, you should go to the optometrist. (At least the anime was, I've burnt the memory of the manga out of my head due to its utter craptasticness.)
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fuuma_monou



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 972
Location: Quezon City, Philippines

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:58 pm Reply with quote
Nerdboy Himself wrote:
crilix wrote:
I'll be using this interview as reference for people who have no clue about yuri.


Hand them a boxset of R.O.D. the TV as well, just to be thorough.


I'm this close to completing my set. Surprised the show hasn't been re-released by Geneon through Funimation yet, since it's still in print in Australia (R2/R4, I think).
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3337
Location: Back stateside

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:30 am Reply with quote
Nerdboy Himself wrote:
crilix wrote:
I'll be using this interview as reference for people who have no clue about yuri.


Hand them a boxset of R.O.D. the TV as well, just to be thorough.


On the grounds of thinking that particular series is mediocre at best, I recommend giving them MariMite or Simoun or sending them a link to stream Aoi Hana instead. Or dear God, dig up an old copy of the Revolutionary Girl Utena series!

At Kyaa:
I agree that Mai Hime focused a lot more on the characters than this writer gives it credit (some episodes left not a dry eye to be seen in my anime club), but it is undeniably heavy on the fan service, and the yuri angle relies on more cliches (including the notorious psycho lesbian) than it does on really developing their sexualities. I wouldn't really consider it a yuri series for precisely that reason.
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Cryssoberyl



Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 184

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:36 am Reply with quote
Thanks as usual for your hard work in promoting yuri, Erica. Anime smile
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Splitter



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 1191
Location: Knockin' on Heaven's Door

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:13 am Reply with quote
Ah, good, I'm glad Erica brought up akogare.

I'm a little upset the column this week was so vague and broad... but then again, so is yuri in general.
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louieatrest



Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 25
Location: montreal

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:15 am Reply with quote
Erica seems to be saying that yuri is not a genre, but is a tag for any story with lesbian characters, themes, or notice. This seems more vague than "broad". It was equally unclear who the audience is...(being ten years in the business has not given her much feedback is all I can gather) ...or how she comes by any of her opinions, like sailor moon wearing short skirts for boy viewers (I would have guessed it was more about the idea of adultness than sexiness.) or how the gay character in Mai-Hime allows males to empathize (I felt all the characters in Mai-Hime were well written allowing for deep character empathy, and that the fan-service was really just the surface.)
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Splitter



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 1191
Location: Knockin' on Heaven's Door

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:20 am Reply with quote
louieatrest wrote:
Erica seems to be saying that yuri is not a genre, but is a tag for any story with lesbian characters, themes, or notice. This seems more vague than "broad". It was equally unclear who the audience is...(being ten years in the business has not given her much feedback is all I can gather) ...or how she comes by any of her opinions, like sailor moon wearing short skirts for boy viewers (I would have guessed it was more about the idea of adultness than sexiness.) or how the gay character in Mai-Hime allows males to empathize (I felt all the characters in Mai-Hime were well written allowing for deep character empathy, and that the fan-service was really just the surface.)


Well, yuri's not a genre. Romance is a genre, yuri is just romance with two girls. The core of the issue is, like Erica said, it's not about just the titilation. There can be titilation but it may go much deeper than that, as can be seen in the existing example of Mai HiME. Also, the titilation of Sailor Moon is undeniable. It can be seen, like Sailor Moon which paved the road before it, as both female empowerment and fanservice. Post-modern feminism FTW.
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Kyaa the Catlord



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 300

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:24 am Reply with quote
vashfanatic wrote:
Nerdboy Himself wrote:
crilix wrote:
I'll be using this interview as reference for people who have no clue about yuri.


Hand them a boxset of R.O.D. the TV as well, just to be thorough.


On the grounds of thinking that particular series is mediocre at best, I recommend giving them MariMite or Simoun or sending them a link to stream Aoi Hana instead. Or dear God, dig up an old copy of the Revolutionary Girl Utena series!

At Kyaa:
I agree that Mai Hime focused a lot more on the characters than this writer gives it credit (some episodes left not a dry eye to be seen in my anime club), but it is undeniably heavy on the fan service, and the yuri angle relies on more cliches (including the notorious psycho lesbian) than it does on really developing their sexualities. I wouldn't really consider it a yuri series for precisely that reason.


Yeah, I find it sad that the obvious lesbian is the one focused on. Chizuru was a pretty solid little character until she completely wigged out at the end. Personally, I find the Nat-Nao story terribly good in a yuri sort of way.

To be honest, I think Mai-Hime is awfully light in the actual fanservice compared to most shonen yuri shows, such as Simoun, Kannaduki no Miko, Strawberry Panic.... Perhaps it was just rather blatant about the fanservice when it had it.

I love the show but seriously, sometimes it tried too hard to pander.

But nothing beats flute-rape. NOTHING.
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Kyaa the Catlord



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 300

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:26 am Reply with quote
louieatrest wrote:
Erica seems to be saying that yuri is not a genre, but is a tag for any story with lesbian characters, themes, or notice. This seems more vague than "broad". It was equally unclear who the audience is...(being ten years in the business has not given her much feedback is all I can gather) ...or how she comes by any of her opinions, like sailor moon wearing short skirts for boy viewers (I would have guessed it was more about the idea of adultness than sexiness.) or how the gay character in Mai-Hime allows males to empathize (I felt all the characters in Mai-Hime were well written allowing for deep character empathy, and that the fan-service was really just the surface.)


I found the fanservice to be bait to the hook in Mai-Hime. And the opposite in Otome... the fanservice there was just off-putting.
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fuuma_monou



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 972
Location: Quezon City, Philippines

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:11 am Reply with quote
louieatrest wrote:
Erica seems to be saying that yuri is not a genre, but is a tag for any story with lesbian characters, themes, or notice.


For the most part yuri is more of content description than genre. Utena and Simoun have yuri, but they're not just yuri. R.O.D, Burst Angel, and Mai-Hime, likewise. Outright porn or sweet romance.
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Kimiko_0



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 1585
Location: Leiden, NL, EU

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:17 am Reply with quote
Yah, the term 'yuri' is a little too broad to be useful. I follow Erica's blog because it's the only blog that focuses on yuri, but I don't find it very useful because of this shallow definition. Anything that has a female character look at another female character with more than passing interest is labeled 'yuri'. It also doesn't distinguish between audience. Fanservice for men is very different from actual lesbian stories like Aoi Hana. If you include both under the same umbrella term, you end up disappointing both ends of your audience.

Btw, it's nice to see this column finally talk about something other than yaoi Smile
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pachy_boy



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 749

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:39 am Reply with quote
Kimiko_0 wrote:
Btw, it's nice to see this column finally talk about something other than yaoi Smile


Agreed! This column was surprisingly short, but I think everyone said what needed to be said to finally give Yuri its deserved recognition.
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kgw



Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 337
Location: Spain, EU

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:22 am Reply with quote
Well, it's the Japanese who call "yuri" to anything where a girl or woman lust, love, befriend or distinctly "akogare" another girl or woman.

I think it's quite bold telling them they are wrong and just some overseas people really know what are they talking about with "yuri".

I like Erica's definition. Sometimes something has not clear-cut definitons
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