Forum - View topicREVIEW: One Piece GN 63-65
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Thatguy3331
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Hm, oh well, I rather liked skypia for the most part, and I haven't seen thriller bark yet (but brooks in it damn it! how can it possibly be bad?!?!) so I can't exactly make the best argument, however I'm puzzled on this so called direction you're talking about, especially with whats one piece become. |
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Illusionary_Systems
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Except that Thriller Bark was at least entertaining and introduced a unique new character that joins the crew (Brook), whereas Fishman Island was pretty much a waste of time. |
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Illusionary_Systems
Posts: 50 |
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I agree the Fishman Island arc, like the Skypia arc before it, dragged on for far longer than their content merited. |
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Fullmetal_Jedi
Posts: 12 |
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Eh, not everyone will like One Piece. Personally I think it's awesome!
Really happy to see One Piece volumes reviewed! As for the Fishman Island discussion, I really don't understand the hate the arc gets. I don't know but I think some people may have missed the point of a lot of what was going on. Jimbei IS joining the crew, so there's that. It's hardly a deviation or useless if it features a future Straw Hat. (Luffy asked him to join and Jimbei wants to accept the offer as soon as the business with Big Mom is taken care of). Some people who hate Jimbei want him to die.....lol they're going to be very disappointed. He's joining the crew soon enough. The thing about Fishman Island is that the majority of the main story on the island is unresolved - meaning the Straw Hats are going back. Joy Boy, Sharley's premonition, Noah, etc. are all unresolved. Things are heating up with Doflamingo right now and we'll be heading to Wano after Punk Hazard. At One Piece Ten they had a recreation of Oda's desk which had a notebook for the Wano arc underneath his notebook for Punk Hazard. I would say based on the context of the story, the battle with Big Mom will bring them back to Fishman Island. Sharley's premonition that Luffy will destroy the island is still in play. The fishmen don't want to live at the bottom of the ocean - they want to attend Reverie and live under the sun. I think Luffy's going to destroy the island intentionally to free them from the ocean floor. I think this will lead into a Reverie arc given how much this event has been mentioned. Fishman Island set up a lot of events for the future. It's hardly pointless. You just don't see the point yet, but that doesn't mean it's pointless. Even Skypiea is meaningful. Oda himself said Eneru would return at some point. I wouldn't be surprised if the Shandorans and possibly the moon people have a connection to one of the ancient weapons - Uranus. I think sometimes people are quick to say an arc is 'unimportant' without really looking at what those events will lead to in the future. With Fishman Island we're looking at Jimbei joining, a battle with Big Mom, a possible Reverie arc (reunion with Vivi based on the cover arc) revolving around the Fishmen, Luffy guiding Shirahoshi on the promised day for Noah to carry the Fishmen to the surface, plus Caribou and whoever he works for learning the identity of Poseidon. These are all big events which will have big consequences in future arcs. One Piece isn't going downhill....in fact, I'd say it's the exact opposite. So far Punk Hazard has been amazing - one of my favorite in the series up to this point. Oda has so much going on, adding just the right amount of depth and background to side characters, while still giving us lots of fun interactions with the crew. Last edited by Fullmetal_Jedi on Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mrsticky005
Posts: 114 |
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Pretty much it feels like the main cast has been reduced to a few one liners and gags. In short they're boring now. Side characters seem to just exist to be victims. They have personality but it feels slapped on. Either that or their personality degrades into a gag. Villains are either rather annoying or not interesting and stale. Sometimes though the annoying villains can be fun but it's a bit of a hit and miss type deal. What was the point of Fishman Island? Don't say "racism" yes I'm sure Oda wanted to get on his soap box. But I don't think it works. I will say that I thought the Fisher Tiger incident was rather well done. But as for everything else it was just really hard to care. Sure we got that Shirahoshi is one of the ancient super weapons (I forget what it is called). But it's like I kinda wish they just stop by, say "Oh look another piece to the puzzle" and then leave. And no, this is NOT because I'm "too impatient for the New World." Unlike a lot of people I actually do enjoy a slow paced story. But it has to actually be enjoyable. There's a world of difference between "slow paced" and "dragging it out." A lot of times when people ask about "is One Piece worth it?" The common response is "The first few arcs are slow but it gets better." I never felt that way. I thought the whole East Blue Saga was excellent. Buggy is awesome. Captain Kuro is awesome. Don Kreig was lame but it made up for it with Mihawk and Gin. Arlong was awesome. I even love stuff like the dude in the treasure chest. That was fun. But then we got Fishman Island. Hody Jones is anything but awesome. He's not a threat. He has steroid pills. Big whoop. It was obvious from the very beginning Luffy would kick his ass. Now there's nothing wrong with a good ol Monkey D Luffy thrashing but either get to it quickly or make the arc actually interesting. Making the arc about "racism" is NOT interesting. That's not to say it's not an interesting (and tragic) subject. But not in the comically preachy way that Oda portrays it. It's like being lectured by NBC. It's like we get this whole spiel from Jinbei the Coward about oh no the cycle of violence and racism and you can't get involved Luffy as if the stakes were so damn high. Guess what? Luffy kicks Hody Jones ass and everything is fine and dandy. Hody Jones just happens to be racist hypocrite for the hell of it. It's not that this couldn't be a damn well interesting sub plot but it's such an ass pull that it's just like "...really Oda?" And it's obvious why it was done. "Because it's so deep and insightful?" NO. It's because Oda doesn't have the balls to make Luffy an actual moral grey character despite all the times Luffy lets others decide whether he's good or bad (in other words this is Oda saying that the morality of Luffy's actions are up to you.) But there's really no need for them to be. Luffy is obviously a good person. Now there's nothing wrong with that. Actually I quite like the classic hero. But let's keep it that way. If we are supposed to always root for Luffy then let's do just that. That is actually one of the things that makes East Blue Saga so great because there was never really any bullshit about whether or not Luffy was good or bad. Oh sure he causes all sorts of trouble but it's more due to his stupidity and recklessness then any moral character flaws. But it was like this big bad villain was introduced, they had wacky powers. Luffy has better wacky powers. The end. Now it's all this crap about "violence never solves anything" in a manga where EVERYTHING is solved with GUM GUM PISTOL. Speaking of Luffy causing trouble. Fishman Island Arc REALLY failed to deliver. I'm talking about the "destruction of Fishman Island by Luffy" prophecy. It didn't happen. What a rip off. And no it's not a great twist when it doesn't occur because the only reason why I was putting up with the Hody Jones nonsense is because I was interested in how and why LUFFY WOULD DESTROY THE ISLAND. Making it just a "misunderstanding" is a cheap move by Oda. Now this is mainly what I find wrong with Fishman Island but I can't help but think this will become an unfortunate staple of One Piece storytelling. I do actually want to like this series. I own 24 of the volumes and have invested a lot of time and money into it. My arguments may be flawed but I hope you can see that I'm not the typical "Luffy is a smiling dumb ass" type hater. Though when you think about it's kinda true. Except that Luffy is a smiling dumb bad ass. Let's keep it that way. |
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Thatguy3331
Posts: 1791 |
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Luffy is a dumbass plain and simple, thats acctually why I like him (Also YAY another east blue fan!) I can't really say I agree with your post but I'll respect it, the only thing is, with me about the prediction its more of 'yeah it didn't happen...now anyway.' I personally doubt we're done with the island given Luffy spoiler[Challenges big man in order to make it his turf] Now I could be wrong of course but its just one of the few predictions I have. If anything I can agree Hodi sucks on every level and the arc was draggy in of itself. I personally don't feel like I'm in any position to get into arguments about where the series is heading or anything because plain and simple I like watching/reading one piece, not so much talking about it. Sure I'll say I'm still a fan and maybe post about it a few times but I'd rather just go along with the flow of it all. Not to mention I haven't had any real disproportionate enjoyment out of it, unlike some OTHER series I know that's named off a laundry product and childrens fables... More power to ya bro. |
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Fullmetal_Jedi
Posts: 12 |
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I think you may have missed some of the point of Fishman Island. I'm surprised you're now saying One Piece is bad because you hated one arc. I feel it was written no differently from any other arc in the series.
Yes, it was mostly about racism, and maybe you don't care for that subject, but the way it was done was subtle enough that it was entertaining. I thought it was a very well written arc. Taking into account all of the context clues you would see that the plot thread about Luffy destroying the island wasn't dropped. See my above post. There are a lot of things left unresolved purposely - they're going to tie into a future arc. |
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mrsticky005
Posts: 114 |
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You may actually be right about it being no different from any other arc in the series--and that's exactly what I am afraid of. Believe it or not I used to love One Piece. But now...I'm not so sure anymore. I'm not sure if it really has gotten worse or if I've simply grown bored of it. It's difficult to say. Did you not read the part where I said racism is an interesting and tragic subject? There was nothing "subtle" about Fishman Isle. Context clues or not it's still a cheap move by Oda. Of course I never expected Luffy to destroy the Island for the evils. Again Luffy is CLEARLY a good guy. But I thought at the very least it would happen but would be justified by x reason. Instead Oda uses the prophecy as bait for readers. Of course there are not going to resolve EVERYTHING in the arc. I don't expect them to. But at least make the arc entertaining in of itself. Saying that it all ties together later and I just have to wait is a bullshit excuse. One Piece is 60+ volumes. It be one thing if this was like Volume 5 or even 25. But seriously at this point Oda has zero excuse of needing more volumes to get this story moving. But even if Oda absolutely needs the story moving at a snail's pace he could at least do the readers a favor and not make every page an eye sore. It's like Oda is trying to cram all this info into the six volumes...and yet 90% is crap. |
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Fullmetal_Jedi
Posts: 12 |
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I still expect that Luffy will destroy the island.
Notice that in Sharley's premonition the island is covered in flames. Big Mom's preferred method of island destruction at least based on what we've seen, is to burn an island to the ground. We know that Jimbei joining is part of the Big Mom saga and that once the island is free from her "protection" he wishes to join. I expect that Luffy will consciously destroy the island so that the Fishmen will be free from the ocean floor - if the island doesn't exist, they can't live there. They'll have to move to the surface. He'll fulfill the prophecy about Shirahoshi and Noah as well as Sharley's premonition on the promised day when the Straw Hats return to Fishman Island during the battle with Big Mom. At least that's my theory. I'm not saying it's going to take an indefinite amount of time to return to Fishman Island - I think it's in the immediate future. Even the current cover story arc with Caribou ties back into the fate of Fishman Island. Right now Caribou is on an island controlled by Kaidou. He also is known to work for someone in the New World. Oda DOES need more arcs for this all to play out - he's establishing either Big Mom or Doflamingo as the next big villain (likely Dofla). We've got Wano coming up next, but on the horizon we have a showdown with Doflamingo, Reverie, and Fishman Island II arc. I strongly believe they're going to return to Fishman Island sooner rather than later - Fishman Karate Dojo wasn't seen, Jimbei's personal past wasn't seen, we're due fora Shandora type flashback revolving around Noah and Joy Boy, and the current conflict with Big Mom revolves around Fishman Island. Not to mention Caribou will leak Shirahoshi's identity to whoever he works for, be it Kaidou, Doflamingo, etc. There's a LOT going on in the story and it does need time to play out. It's understandable if you just lose interest, but to me the story itself is moving along at a very brisk pace. There was a lot going on behind the scenes in Fishman Island setting up THIS CURRENT SAGA. It's sort of like how Water Seven builds into Enies Lobby....or I guess more accurately can be compared to the Baroque Works saga with longer individual arcs - each now roughly 40 - 50 chapters rather than 20 or so. Things take a lot longer to play out now, but each individual chapter moves at a faster pace than back in the Baroque Works saga - there's just a lot more moving pieces in the story now to keep track of. I think Oda does his best to make new characters feel real and important rather than a plot device - to do this requires some time. Honestly, yes this series is 689 chapters, but it's still nowhere near complete. Geographically we're halfway through the Grand Line. Story wise? Who knows....but knowing Oda, I have a feeling we're less than halfway. My best guestimate at this point is 1500 chapters - knowing that Raftel is not the final destination of the story and tat becoming Pirate King is not the end game of the series does add to the length considerably in my opinion. Personally I just look at how all these things tie into the bigger picture and overall story of the series and I'm amazed at how Oda keeps track of everything. He keeps the story moving forward yet gives us time to enjoy all the characters and incredibly creative world he's built. |
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mrsticky005
Posts: 114 |
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Luffy should have destroyed it already.
Big Mom destroying it isn't interesting. Luffy destroying it would have been interesting. But it didn't happen. And I find it too little too late. The reason why Big Mom destroying it is now interesting is because there's nothing really shocking about such a development. It's well established that Big Mom is only protecting them as long as it benefits Big Mom (that means free candy!). No candy means Big Mom has little reason to protect Fishman Island. So it's about as surprising as the mafia shooting the guy they were "protecting" when said guy fails to pay his "protection fees". Luffy on the other hand is a good guy and him destroying Fishman Island makes you think WHY would Luffy do such a thing. I shudder at the thought of Jinbei The Sissy joining the strawhats. I mean even the incessantly annoying Shirahoshi would be miles better as her being a superweapon and a giant mermaid could at least be useful as a negotiation tool...and a shield. I rather Big Mom just goes to destroy it and then the Straw Hats read about how all the stupid fish people got fried. Bonus points if Oda turns Jinbei into Fish Sticks. Of course he won't. 
I actually somewhat like Caribou. He's interesting...unlike Hody Jones. No. Oda doesn't. Making them villains is incredibly easy. Big Mom runs a "protection" racket and Doflamingo is basically the Hisoka/Orochimaru of the series in that he's extremely flamboyant and he's only loyal to himself (or at the very least that is what it appears to be.) Oda did not need to make such a crappy arc to make those two into villains. In fact I say Fishman Island actually HURTS that cause because I think getting rid of that waste of space would be a HEROIC act. The further I read into Fishman Island the less I gave a damn what happened to it. If it does get destroyed my reaction will be. "Took you long enough, Oda." That's cool with Zolo Island, Doflamingo vs World Council and all. But I don't see why we had to put up with Hody Jones to get there. Heck I don't even really see Fishman Island Arc 1 being all that necessary for Fishman Island Arc 2. I strongly believe I don't care. Oda can include that in a databook. Unless it actually matters to the plot. Um...dude we DID see Jinbei's personal past. Ok we didn't see him in his REALLY young years but so what? It's already been established he's a pathetic coward. Again those things don't justify such a crappy arc. He better. There's nothing wrong with Oda using Fishman Islan to build up to the next arc. In fact I say it's great. But the arc in of itself should be interesting. But it's not. It's boring as hell. A better mangaka can make the arc actually interesting AND include those "hints" to the next arcs. A REALLY good mangaka includes all that AND is actually able to convey a real message about racism that isn't the hokey and trite like Oda's. Perhaps it is faster. But back then it was more fun. I'm not expecting the series to end anytime soon. I'm just expecting the series to be GOOD 60+ volumes in. Fishman Island Arc showed me that it wasn't. When you have 689 chapters you BETTER tie things into the bigger picture. And if Oda wasn't busy with writing crappy preachy arcs he could do an even better job of tying it all together. |
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Fullmetal_Jedi
Posts: 12 |
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I didn't say anything about Big Mom destroying FI.
From my above post: I expect that Luffy will consciously destroy the island so that the Fishmen will be free from the ocean floor - if the island doesn't exist, they can't live there. They'll have to move to the surface. He'll fulfill the prophecy about Shirahoshi and Noah as well as Sharley's premonition on the promised day when the Straw Hats return to Fishman Island during the battle with Big Mom. At least that's my theory. Shirahoshi would be a horrible, horrible choice for a crew member. There are an endless number of reasons it would be bad on every level. Jimbei is not a coward. His name is "Knight of the sea". He stood up to the World Government on Ace's behalf - nothing about his character is cowardly. He's perfect Straw Hat material to me. It''s a moot argument though since it's all but certain he'll join - Luffy wants him to join, asked him to join, and his answer was "ask me again when my current predicament is over and I'll say yes". Hody Jones was empty - that was the whole point. I didn't find the arc preachy at all - I thought the flashback was really well done, and Oda managed to make a tense situation without superpowered villains. Honestly, I'd be really unhappy with the series if anything you're suggesting actually happened.....and I'm kinda surprised one arc in a 689 chapter series would make you turn on the series so drastically. I mean, I've disliked arcs in other series while keeping things in perspective lol. |
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mrsticky005
Posts: 114 |
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Sorry but I assumed that was what you meant when you wrote:
"Notice that in Sharley's premonition the island is covered in flames. Big Mom's preferred method of island destruction at least based on what we've seen, is to burn an island to the ground." So I'm actually kind of confused as to why you included that if you think Luffy will be the one to destroy the Island. I agree Shirahoshi would be horrible. That's the point. He's a coward. So what about his name? He did stand up to the WG. I will give him credit for that. But he also was the World Government's dog. Either Jinbei doesn't really give a crap about Fisher Tiger and betraying him or he's a coward caving into government pressure. Arlong may have gotten bested by Kizaru but at least Arlong put up a fight. Jinbei just gave up. But even if I pretend Jinbei had some "genius" reason to be the World Government's dog...not that I've heard any. There's still the problem of Hody Jones. Jinbei warned Luffy to not fight him because all of this crap about Hody Jones being a fishman and Luffy being human. Luffy ignores him, beats the crap out of Hody Jones and saves the day. What a bunch of bull. Had Jinbei not been a coward he would have been able to stop Hody Jones (or at least die trying) Or better yet stop Arlong. But Jinbei is a coward. And speaking of saving Ace...had he put up a fight BEFORE getting imprisoned then Ace might not have had to die. So much for being a hero. Tis the tale of Jinbei the Coward. I dunno maybe I'll be lucky and Jinbei dies before he gets to join. But I don't think I will be lucky. Yes I get that was the point...and it was a stupid point at that*. The arc was tremendously preachy. Fisher Tiger flashback was great...Otohime Flashback was aggravating. If by tense you mean "boring as hell" then I agree Well be surprised because the arc SUCKED. I'm sure you have. So what? I'm keeping things out of perspective? Ha ha ha. Aren't you clever? I've said before that this wasn't the only arc I dislike (though it's the one I dislike the most.) And from what I see the arc is a step down hill. The only reason I'm keeping things out of "perspective" is because I don't adhere to YOUR perspective. * As to why Hody Jones being "empty" is stupid... So we get this whole backstory about how Humans did all these immoral things to the poor little fish men and there was this whole big spiel about Otohime getting shot by a human (yes I know the real culprit was Hody Jones) Hody Jones wants to take over Fishman Island and carry on Fisher Tiger and Arlong's "legacy". Fishman Island wants peace so Hody thinks they are cowards for not wanting to fight their oppressors. So Hody Jones is causing all this sheningans in Fishman Island and they don't seem to take too kindly to it but since they are weak they can't fight back. Luffy to the rescue! But wait! Jinbei The Spineless says to Luffy "Noooo!!! If you fight Hody Jones then it will lead to hatred and stuff." (obviously not verbatim) Luffy ignores him and kicks Hody Jones ass. As I said before Hody Jones was never remotely a threat to Luffy. So how is that tense? Everyone is on Luffy's side except for Jinbei trying to straddle the fence so how is that tense? Then we find out Hody Jones is just a racist piece of trash. All that history lessons we had to learn really mean diddly squat and whatever tension was there before is now zilch. Luffy beats up another lame villain only this time we get to learn about the evils of racism. What a joke. |
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jr240483
 Posts: 4378 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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Unfortunately the manga cant use his original name and for obivious reason. Though I am not susprised of the new animations for the female characters of the crew. definitely fanservice esse. though i was susprised that hancock didn't join him. that would have taken the comedy antics to a whole new level. |
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Fullmetal_Jedi
Posts: 12 |
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You're still wrong about Jimbei.
He took on the title of warlord for the sake of Fishman Isalnd. By accepting the title of warlord, it primarily offered FI some protection, and second it helped Fishmen "integrate" in a way. It was symbolic. Second, he DID want Luffy to fight Hody, he just wanted him to do it in a specific manner. He wanted Luffy to take down Hody as the hero of Fishman Island as a symbol to show that humans and fishmen can get along. It was pretty obvious that Jimbei himself was stronger than Hody. He couldn't be on Fishman Island because he defected from the world government. A pirate with a 400 million bounty who stabbed the world government in the back does more harm than anything by hanging around his home island. I really think you're skipping over a lot of the details...because a lot of what you're describing isn't accurate to what actually happened. Jimbei didn't stop Arlong because he didn't know what Arlong was doing. Arlong paid off Nezumi to cover up what was going on in the East Blue....thus apologizing to Nami. Details. Jimbei was nowhere near Ace when he was defeated by Blackbeard and taken into World Government custody. I have absolutely no idea how Jimbei "putting up a fight" would have made a bit of difference in Ace's fate. In fact, it DID say Jimbei put up a fight. Jimbei isn't as strong as the Admirals. He was taken to Impel Down by force. Guess you hate him for not being as strong as the admirals too. Irrational character hate ftw! Once in Impel Down, there was nothing he could do until he was freed by Luffy, plain and simple. I don't see anything at all to hate about his actions in the wars or to even remotely call him a coward over. He stood up to the WG before and during the war because he chose to fight for what he believed in rather than go along with the execution. Not one thing cowardly about this. Your view of his character is very, very warped and not at all in line with what Oda has portrayed so far. He's not going to die. He's going to join the crew. Luffy didn't go against what Jimbei wanted. He did exactly as Jimbei said. They worked together and devised the strategy. The whole point was that Hody WASN'T a threat because of his strength, but because of the influence he could have if he was taken down without consideration and thought. Battles have more depth than simply showing who is the strongest. The Straw Hats spent two years training. It would have been BAD story writing for them to encounter opponents like Baroque Works or CP9 that push them to their limit right at the start of the time skip. It would beg the question what the hell did they work for all that time? You needed an arc with villains weak enough to show their progress. The battle with Hody was tense because of Noah, plain and simple. If the battle was on the island itself and not in the middle of the ocean depths, Luffy would wipe the floor with Hody. That's good story writing - making a situation threatening not just because the villain is immensely powerful. Fishman Island was atypical for a shonen arc - it focused more on the emotions and history of the fishmen people. Maybe you wanted to see a big showdown between Luffy and a super powerful opponent, but that would have been bad for the story at this point in time. I seriously don't understand your gripe with slavery being the main theme of this arc. |
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MaxSouth
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I know this is just a fantasy manga and it does not have to make sense, but I can not do anything with myself: every time I see new Zoro, I can not think of anything else other than how ridiculous it is that he supposedly became much better swordsman with just one eye. I mean it is so blatantly nonsensical that I can not help myself.
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