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I was under the impression that Madarao was either gay or bisexual to be honest..

vashna wrote:

I was under the impression that Madarao was either gay or bisexual to be honest..

But in the manga, Madarao says that after being a ghost for at least 100 years, she or he forgot his or her gender. Chapter 21 in volume 3:
Yoshimori: "But you're a dog, not a human! And I thought you were originally a male dog!"
Madarao: "I forget whether I was male or not! It was such a long time ago!"
I dunno, maybe ghosts are genderless? Oddly enough I've always assumed Madarao to be a chick dog for whatever reason, I think Madarao acts more feminine as compared to Habuki.

Beatdigga wrote:

Everything this show does, other shows have done better.

It actually has one of the best character spoiler[deaths] in it's genre but yeah you're right ^_^ Generic shonen manga totally win manga of the year awards ^_^

the series is very slow moving.

It really does take time to build up to a climax of a fight in the series. But the series is still pretty good from what I've read of the manga. Why not slow down a bit and watch a few more episodes or pick up the manga?

ninjapet wrote:

the series is very slow moving.

It really does take time to build up to a climax of a fight in the series. But the series is still pretty good from what I've read of the manga. Why not slow down a bit and watch a few more episodes or pick up the manga?

I have a better idea.

I want this show to meet the same fate as Wulin Warriors. A show so bad, it was cancelled after 2 episodes. On Toonami, a block which NEVER cancelled a show until it finished 1 run. I want Kekkaishi to air next week, do terribly, and then vanish from Adult Swim, the website, etc all. And then, I will be consider justice done on a rickety block hanging by a thread.

I'm sorry, this is just so generic. My intelligence feels insulted by AS going "anime! You have to watch!" This isn't the mid-90's anymore.

Y'know what's ironic? When I had hit volume 5 or so of the manga I thought "OMG This series would be perfect for Toonami! Why haven't they picked it up?" (this of course being at the time when Toonami was still running, but after the time when they switched to Saturday nights only and the only good thing they played was MegasXLR, so I was more thinking "old Toonami" when I thought that).

Well, now [adult swim] seems to act like old Toonami (I personally think old Toonami would have shown stuff like FMA and Bleach) and it seems my wish has been granted years down the line. They made a great choice with this, it's just that no one knows yet (unless they've already seen the anime in fansubs or read a lot of the manga).

Is there anything wrong with a shonen starting off a bit generic? It can only get better from there and unlike other shonen, it's not afraid to take major risks (like spoiler[killing a main character for reals, killing a main in DBZ hardly counts because they'll be back anyway, it kinda lessens the blow]). What it spends the early manga doing is building up character relations and the basic world relations, it gives it a strong foundation to start building better stuff on and indeed it does. I think that may be part of the difference between shonen written by women and ones written by men. Shonen written by women (Kekkaishi, Fullmetal Alchemist, Hikaru no Go) tend to let character development into the fray and it makes the overall experience a lot more fun. It's not just about fights and the latest bad guy.

Would you rather have a shonen start off with a bang then get worse from there on out?

Sorry that your intelligence feels insulted. Kekkaishi is going through the introductory phase of the anime and is not going to throw new viewers into the middle of story or character relationships from the main arc until a foundation of understanding is put down.

Like most anime that have 50+ episodes there is a slower pace in the beginning to allow the viewer to connect with how the world the of the anime. Soul Eater, Monster, Hunter x Hunter, D Gray-man, Fighting Spirit, and even Kenshin mostly had foundation for a few episodes before moving onto the meat of an arc.

Kekkaishi ep1 is to understand what their job is, why they do it, what kind of relationship the main characters have with one another, their families, and to show the main characters general attitudes.

Kekkaishi has good characters and some good stories. It is not a top shounen manga/anime for no reason.

It was an okay beginning. Honestly, the final minute or so intrigued me the most, and since this is apparently supposed to be a two-episode pilot, I wouldn't really judge it fully until seeing episode "2".

I can't stand it when people have an attitude like Beatdigga. "I don't like a series, so I hope it is canceled. Sure, all the people who enjoy it will be upset, but I'M more important than THEM!" Rolling Eyes

You really can't judge long-runners by their first episode. Soul Eater and One Piece had only decent beginnings, but improved greatly over time. But then take Bleach, which was great from episode/chapter one, but then started plummeting in quality later on in the series.

I wish people would quit mentioning the spoiler[permanent death that's supposed to happen]. A single moment like that can't carry a whole series, and considering Fullmetal Alchemist, Death Note, Naruto, and One Piece have all done plenty of such moments, it's not like it's unheard of for shonen series to do this. I'm sure Kekkaishi will improve story/character-wise, but yelling out, spoiler["hey, someone important dies!"] is unneeded.

@The wannabe critics crying "generic": the first three volumes of the Berserk manga range from awful to above mediocrity. It's considered one of the best manga of all-time.

This isn't a short-volume manga or an 26 episode anime series (certainly the original material is not). Perhaps we can gain some perspective and patience, and also stop bleating what others are saying.

doctordoom85 wrote:

I wish people would quit mentioning the spoiler[permanent death that's supposed to happen]. A single moment like that can't carry a whole series, and considering Fullmetal Alchemist, Death Note, Naruto, and One Piece have all done plenty of such moments, it's not like it's unheard of for shonen series to do this. I'm sure Kekkaishi will improve story/character-wise, but yelling out, spoiler["hey, someone important dies!"] is unneeded.

Except with Kekkaishi, you don't spoiler[have an obvious build to it, nor is it done for some forced tugging of the heartstrings, or just as a plot trigger.] As for your other examples: Death Note breaks down shonen conventions anyway (friendship, goal of protagonist, etc.) or notches up the unsavory parts up to 11 (see: every non-main character is largely inconsequential -- spoiler[except for a key moment!] -- the women are all idiots, etc.). Fullmetal Alchemist is where it is, but spoiler[doesn't kill off absolutely major characters other than Hughes, and that one is early on and serves more as an aforementioned plot trigger.] Naruto just spoiler[kills old people] -- whoo, what bravery. And I love One Piece and don't think this is a real fault, but spoiler[not killing off anyone major within the present timeline for over 500 chapters is a bit much.]

HellKorn wrote:

@The wannabe critics crying "generic"

Don't call me a wannabee for calling this thing what it is. An unwelcome show on a block that can hardly afford any more failures. Really, if you were randomly finding this show after watching the UFC last weekend, would you want to keep watching? Or would you think "this looks stupid" and change the channel? 99% of the viewers probably thought of option 2.

Last edited by braves on Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

HellKorn wrote:

Naruto just spoiler[kills old people] -- whoo, what bravery.

Well, 2 out of 3 good guys; maybe 2 out of 4 if you include a later plot twist. But I believe every death in Naruto has clearly been following a common, overlapping theme across the storyline that Kishimoto has been aware of and building upon bit by bit, but I guess I won't go into that here.

I didn't think that Kekkiashi was as horrible as some have stated out here. There were a few lines that were painful, but that's just fufulling the "requirements", so to speak, of being a shonen show, and the comedy was typical anime style (ie, people screaming at each other and not being that funny after a while). But it shows some promise. I like the structuring of the backstory for the main character, the animation is solid (though, in my typical elitist fashion, there's nothing I'd call spectacular; merely a cut or two above the mediocrity everybody seems to be churning out), and there's a gay dog. Any and all complaints should be kept to minimum due to this last fact.

The biggest surprise for me was that Viz actually put out some individual episode credits instead of vomiting out the usual BS generic credits they like to do when translating them. They didn't list the specific episode animators (only OP and ED KAs from what I saw), but at least they listed most of the staff and the specific episode directors/animation directors/storyboards (translated as continuity here, which is stupid)/scriptwriters. So I consider this a step forward.

Beatdigga wrote:

Really, if you were randomly finding this show after watching the UFC last weekend, would you want to keep watching?

Yeah, somehow I doubt the people watching the UFC are going to be into anime in the first place....

braves wrote:

Yeah, somehow I doubt the people watching the UFC are going to be into anime in the first place....

Afro Samurai's best ratings were when it followed a UFC fight card. Just gonna throw that out there.

My point is is that people were done watching the main event of a major fight card, and might have been channel flipping. Kekkaishi isn't going to be piquing their interest, the genericness will repel them.

Beatdigga wrote:

Don't call me a wannabee for calling this thing what it is. An unwelcome show on a block that can hardly afford any more failures.

But you are. You're just tossing around buzz words and making a snapshot judgment of something that obviously has long-range development behind it, for good or for ill. I'm not fond of argument ad populum, but various people -- many of whom who don't care for shonen series in general -- speak well of Kekkaishi, yet, with one episode under your belt relative to their understanding of the whole anime (or even beyond that with the manga), you give no apparent credence to their praise. I have no reason to believe that you're versed in animation or film theory. Unless any potential future posts prove me wrong, "wannabe," not "amateur," is apt.

Also, again, my point on Berserk: the first three volumes are pretty damn mediocre, with shoddy art and empty bad-ass posturing with one-note characters. Based on your logic, everyone who dislikes these volumes and have not read more should wish the series -- this series which is regarded as one of the best manga created -- to be cancelled by Dark Horse.

braves wrote:

But it shows some promise. I like the structuring of the backstory for the main character, the animation is solid (though, in my typical elitist fashion, there's nothing I'd call spectacular; merely a cut or two above the mediocrity everybody seems to be churning out),

Isn't that true of Sunrise shows in general, though? Razz

Quote:

Yeah, somehow I doubt the people watching the UFC are going to be into anime in the first place....

Couple of my friends are, actually. That said...

Beatdigga wrote:

Afro Samurai's best ratings were when it followed a UFC fight card. Just gonna throw that out there.

Correlation doesn't equal causation.

Plus, I dunno, if we're bemoaning series being "generic" or whatever...

Beatdigga wrote:

braves wrote:

Yeah, somehow I doubt the people watching the UFC are going to be into anime in the first place....

Afro Samurai's best ratings were when it followed a UFC fight card. Just gonna throw that out there.

My point is is that people were done watching the main event of a major fight card, and might have been channel flipping. Kekkaishi isn't going to be piquing their interest, the genericness will repel them.

So do you want Cartoon Network to stack interesting episodes on AS only after UFC fight cards, ie once a month?

Also I was unaware that UFC fans were the target demographic for Kekkaishi. I was under the impression the show was aiming for fans that have just watched Boondocks then FMAB.

HellKorn wrote:

Beatdigga wrote:

Don't call me a wannabee for calling this thing what it is. An unwelcome show on a block that can hardly afford any more failures.

But you are. You're just tossing around buzz words and making a snapshot judgment of something that obviously has long-range development behind it, for good or for ill. I'm not fond of argument ad populum, but various people -- many of whom who don't care for shonen series in general -- speak well of Kekkaishi, yet, with one episode under your belt relative to their understanding of the whole anime (or even beyond that with the manga), you give no apparent credence to their praise. I have no reason to believe that you're versed in animation or film theory. Unless any potential future posts prove me wrong, "wannabe," not "amateur," is apt.

This is what I never got about anime fandom is probably why so few people watch these days, especially on ADULT Swim (note- not Teen Swim) This idea that "you must stick with an entire series no matter how painful or boring it comes off as" is completely and utterly pretentious. Unless you're doing a Spoony Experiment-esque riffing of the series, you can't expect that from an audience. A good pilot has three major goals. Introduce the plot, the characters, and interest viewers in returning for more. As a pilot, Kekkaishi has failed in those goals quite miserably, presenting a bland, generic, teen targeted product. On a block called Adult Swim, this is bad marketing. Even ANN's reviewer gave the first five episodes of this show a C-, while bemoaning the same type of "you must watch! It gets better!" mentality, as if you didn't you were an evil person. Could you imagine if a network drama was boring audiences till episode 8? It would be cancelled before it got halfway that far.

The fact remains, if you were channel flipping after Jackson vs. Evans, or after SNL, or even stayed put after FMA:B, would the product on screen convince you to keep watching? Or are you just better off picking up the aforementioned manga and skipping ahead four or five volumes, or more likely, decrying the series as poor and abandoning it? Odds are Choice B, leading to yet another failure for the directionless Adult Swim Action.

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