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Ethics of posting doujinshi online




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Jamee



Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 79
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:41 pm Reply with quote
Ok, the debate over whether or not you should download scanlations has been done many times. But what about doujinshis? There are doujinshi fansites where you can get scans online. Does anyone feel these sites are unethical? I guess the question would be is it alright to share something that isn't a licensed product to begin with? On one hand, doujinshi artists work hard on their product, and they're not giving the stuff away free. But by the same token, I don't think most doujinshi artists are trying to make money, anymore than an AMV maker is. If anything, doujinshi artists probably take a loss on their product. It seems like they do it so that other fans can enjoy their work. If that's the case, then online scans of their work probably wouldn't bother them.

What does everyone else think? Is it okay to share your doujin collection with the rest of the world? Or is this another gray area?

Speaking of scanlations, I had an ethical lapse the other day and tried to download the first chapter of FunFun Factory. What I ended up getting was some incredibly sick loli porn! Uggghhh! I guess it just goes to show you that justice is swift and merciless for those who try to get their shojo fix for free.
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Last_September



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:06 pm Reply with quote
First off, I think it's wrong to use someone else's work and profit off it. I think it's alright to post it up online though as long as credit goes to the original author/artist.
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LydiaDianne



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 5629
Location: Support Breast Cancer Research

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:27 pm Reply with quote
Last_September wrote:
First off, I think it's wrong to use someone else's work and profit off it. I think it's alright to post it up online though as long as credit goes to the original author/artist.


I'm going to have to agree here. Go ahead and write/draw your story, but if it based on another manga-ka's work, you shouldn't expect any profit from it and you should let everyone know who the originator is.
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marie-antoinette



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 4115
Location: Ottawa, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:07 pm Reply with quote
With doujinshi already being in a rather iffy area of legality/ethics, I think it's really tough to say. But I do agree that the artists probably are creating for love of what they do, rather than a profit, so I would think at least some of them would rather reach a larger audience, as long as they were still credited for the doujinshi.
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coolerimmortal



Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Posts: 522

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:42 am Reply with quote
Jamee wrote:

Speaking of scanlations, I had an ethical lapse the other day and tried to download the first chapter of FunFun Factory. What I ended up getting was some incredibly sick loli porn! Uggghhh! I guess it just goes to show you that justice is swift and merciless for those who try to get their shojo fix for free.


Looks like you went about getting your scanlations from the wrong place. That never happens if you know where to go...

Oh, and as to the topic...Yeah, doujinshi's are fine. But then again, I'm an "evil scanlator", so my moral views are irrelevant, eh?
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bennyb



Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 477

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:22 pm Reply with quote
coolerimmortal wrote:
Jamee wrote:

Speaking of scanlations, I had an ethical lapse the other day and tried to download the first chapter of FunFun Factory. What I ended up getting was some incredibly sick loli porn! Uggghhh! I guess it just goes to show you that justice is swift and merciless for those who try to get their shojo fix for free.


Looks like you went about getting your scanlations from the wrong place. That never happens if you know where to go...

Oh, and as to the topic...Yeah, doujinshi's are fine. But then again, I'm an "evil scanlator", so my moral views are irrelevant, eh?


Evil! EVIL! BURN HIM!!!111


...Doujinshis are pretty accepted from what I understand in J-pan, even tho they use copyrighted characters.
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xjadedragon750x



Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 263
Location: Chinatown

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:07 pm Reply with quote
This is somewhat offtopic, but are we allowed to discuss doujinshi in this forum? Such as where to buy, or ask details about certain doujin groups?

I couldn't find something that specified this in the rules, so...anyone know?
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marie-antoinette



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 4115
Location: Ottawa, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:23 pm Reply with quote
I don't know for sure but I'd think not, since doujinshi by their nature break copyright laws just the same as fansubs/scanlations do.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9538
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:30 pm Reply with quote
marie-antoinette wrote:
I don't know for sure but I'd think not, since doujinshi by their nature break copyright laws just the same as fansubs/scanlations do.

1. The word "doujinshi" itself has nothing to with copyright, just like You_Tube website or bittorrent protocol. It stands for "comic drawn and published by one or a small group of people, without involvement of any commercial company sans the printing press and/or ISP." You misunderstood its meaning because >90% doujinshi chose to parody on existing characters of popular titles (either commercial or another doujin title in turn -- such as Tsukihime characters before Type-Moon went commercial) to make themselves more identifiable and attractive. The remaining 10% contains completely original characters, like those created by Kaoru Mori.

2. If you check websites of some commercial products (particularly those of bishoujo games, a common subject of parody doujinshi), often you'll find a section called "secondary creation (二次創作)," defining "fair uses" for doujinshi creators.

3. Many commercial manga-ka, especially those who emerged from doujinshi artists, continue drawing doujinshi in their free time and sell them at Comiket or other conventions. This way they could draw whatever and however they want to, without restriction and supervision from managing editors. Those who I can think of right now include (but not limited to) Yoshitoshi ABe, Masayuki Takano, Yu Aida, Keitaro Arima, etc.

4. As long as the doujinshi fits within the "secondary creation" regulations, the copyright of that doujinshi belongs to the doujinshi artist, and whether s/he is willing to have it publicized over the Internet is solely based upon his/her judgement. For example, Crazy Clover Club, one of my favorite doujinshi artist, had put a chapter of his Gunparade March parody on his website (but I can't find it now...probably got removed). Some doujinshi are net manga in the first place, such as Battle Nekomimi Angel Nyano-chan.
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hanachan01



Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 504

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:41 pm Reply with quote
First off, thanks for telling me some new information dormcat! Very cool!

Second off, another artist who went pro but still creates doujinshi is Maki Murakami, the author of Gravitation. She created Gravitation Remix and Megamix doujinshi, which is otherwise a yaoi porn doujinshi with the Gravitation characters. Also, Gravitation was based off of a doujinshi she created called 'Help!' about the characters of Tatsuha and Ryuichi, but in Shuchi and Yuki's roles. (Tatsuha was a novelist, older than Ryu, and not a perv; Ryuichi was his cute pop star boyfriend) Other characters from Gravitation showed up in this doujinshi, such as Tohma and Hiro (but no Shuichi and Yuki).
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marie-antoinette



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 4115
Location: Ottawa, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:55 am Reply with quote
dormcat wrote:
do.

1. The word "doujinshi" itself has nothing to with copyright, just like You_Tube website or bittorrent protocol. It stands for "comic drawn and published by one or a small group of people, without involvement of any commercial company sans the printing press and/or ISP." You misunderstood its meaning because >90% doujinshi chose to parody on existing characters of popular titles (either commercial or another doujin title in turn -- such as Tsukihime characters before Type-Moon went commercial) to make themselves more identifiable and attractive. The remaining 10% contains completely original characters, like those created by Kaoru Mori.[/quote]

Yes, I'm well aware I was using doujinshi in a very limited term, but since it was those types of doujin that this thread was mainly on, I figured I didn't need to get into a detailed description of what type I meant.

The copyright issues of the "parodies" still isn't quite as clear cut, mainly because doujinshi are sold. The case of some Harry Potter doujinshi is actually the only case I've ever seen of eBay actually carrying about copyright, because an auction of doujinshi was ended because of it.
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