Forum - View topicFruits Basket (see 2nd post for thread info)
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murph76
 Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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I'm so glad vol. 16 came out when it did. It really humanizes Kyoko (and it helps a great deal in this discussion
 )
I think a lot of Tohru's cheerfulness and optimism comes from Kyoko. spoiler[Every time Tohru remembers her mother, Kyoko is always smiling or hugging her, telling her she's cute. No harsh words, just lots of love. Of course, there's always the possibility that Tohru's natural optimism is coloring her memories, but I don't think so. Once Kyoko recovered from her depression caused by Katsuya's death, I think Kyoko wanted to be the type of mother she never had: loving, encouraging, involved. ] And wow, spoiler[what bitchy parents she had. Of all the gall, to first kick her out and then call her years later just to remind her she can't come home because her husband died.  Horrid people. (I agree with the rest of you, most parents in this manga are terrible!) At least Kyoko understood how her words must have hurt her parents, her mother in particular, when she found out she was pregnant with Torhu. But I doubt her parents understood how much hurt they were inflicting on her.]
It was painful spoiler[to watch her being beaten nearly to death for wanting to leave her gang. And, it really cast new light on the scene where an adult Kyoko rescues Uo-chan from the same situation. Kyoko told her some people had it much worse trying to leave their gangs. I always kind of sensed she was speaking from experience, but to see it happen is something different.] Well, I could write more but I need to collect my thoughts. -Murph |
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Ningensei
 Posts: 333 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I am also glad volume 16 just came out, or else us English volume readers wouldn't be able to contribute much about Kyoko.
Anyway, I think I said this already right after I read volume 16, but I was really glad that we got to see another side of Kyoko. spoiler[She was always portrayed as so strong and optimistic, which was her true personality, but it was nice to see her young and vulnerable. It just shows that everyone has that soulmate or special person that completes them and makes them a better person themselves. Katsuya was that person for Kyoko and he made her into the person and mother that she became later for Tohru.] I was sad when spoiler[Katsuya died, even though we already knew that it was supposed to happen. Kyoko was so attached and depended on Katsuya so much, it was easy to tell how much his death affected her. I really liked his character and wanted to see more of him. He looks like an older, mature Kyo.  ]
Fighterholic, may I guess which characters are left? spoiler[Before Kyoko you said there were only four, so my guess is Kyoko, then Yuki, then Tohru, and lastly Kyo. Following the male/female pattern this makes the most sense to me, I haven't been here since the beginning but I did read most of the previous discussion and I don't remeber any of these main characters having their moments yet]. But it's just a guess!! |
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aya_honda
 Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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I always thought that Kyoko is one of those characters that should be admired. She is the one who has changed her destiny and all this because of love. spoiler[ I think that Katsuya really understood the pain and the suffering which was going on at the time in Kyoko's heart and soul. He also admitted to her that in a way he has been as lonely as her only that he didn't change his attitude so much. I wonder often what would have happened if Kyoko wouldn't have met Katsuya. It seemed that many times through their discussions not only she found consolation but also him. Katsuya was a lonely person as well only that he didn't manifested his solitude like her. Katsuya helped healing all those wounds created by her parents and I think that after Rin's parents, Kyoko's parents are the worse. To let their daughter leave with a stranger. I mean we knew that Katsuya was a good man, but they didn't and they just didn't care about what was going to happen to their daughter.]
Kyoko is also the one who has created through own efforts a family for which she has fought. I think that I admire her most because she was fighting even if later on the things got worse for her. She had spoiler[two jobs and she had to work a lot for her daughter.] |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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Volume 16 is the best (so far) out of an incredible series.
Poor Kyoko. spoiler[Damn, most of the parents in this series are a******s!] To have your parents say to you spoiler["In this world, there are people who are needed and people who aren't. You are the latter, you ungrateful child." Well, what exactly did she have to be grateful for? The fact that she had a roof over her head? That doesn't exactly give people the warm fuzzies.] I really understand why Kyoko spoiler[broke down in front of Katsuya asking why she turned out the way she did, why wasn't she loved and that she felt so alone. But, I think that Katsuya was the best thing that ever happened to her. He healed her heart.] I'm still wondering how spoiler[Kyo ran into Kyoko though.] |
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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Well, if you want to know then read the following.   I shall gladly spoiler you  spoiler[When still young, Kyo had troubles with staying put in one place and therefore one day while he was sitting upset. some odd lady saw him and she was attracted by his orange hair. This kid was most annoying because he was telling this lady to get lost but later on when she asked him about his parents, this kid answered that he doesn't have any, that his mother is dead and that he wished his father was dead to, because his dad also wanted him dead. I think that it was that very moment when the lady realized that this kid was just like her, namely a lonely soul. I think that you have guessed by now that the lady was Kyoko and that Kyo talked about his father, who blamed him for his mother's death. I think that they instantly connected because in a way Kyoko was just like him. I mean, let's face it, Kyoko's parents, Rin's parents and Kyo's parents hardly deserve this name. Bringining one child in this world only to torment him or her doesn't mean parenthood. Anyway, I'm divagating here. From that day Kyoko and Kyo met many times until something else happened. But I won't spoil you with that. ] Oh, and there's even one nice small image where spoiler[Kyo talks to Kazuma about Kyoko and he tells him how cool he thinks she is. I think that she would have liked very much to know Kyo as Tohru's soul mate. ]
For me the most sensational scenes with Kyoko were those in the final chapters. BIG SPOILER AHEAD!!!!spoiler[ When Takaya-san decided to say how Kyoko dies I think that I was a little sceptic but then when seeing those beautiful and emotional scenes, to see Kyoko taken by Katsuya in heaven - now, these were scenes which I found to be heart-breaking.  I mean, we discover how much Kyoko has loved Katsuya and the possibility of meeting him, even if this occured in death, was one of the most briliant depicted moments in the manga. I think that it was a beautiful ending to Kyoko's story because she had loved Katsuya very much and it was only natural that they would be together. You know, people say I will love you until death, but no one says and beyond. ]I think this is why I love their story even more. I'm too romantic.
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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aya_honda...thank you. Sincerely, most appreciated.
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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We've gotten to see flashbacks of everybody's stories, their dark secrets, or something that changed them to become what they are. I'm very glad that Takaya sensei was able to bring about the story of Kyoko, because it is a very moving story and at the same time it came me the bumps. To see her spoiler[as the vulnerable, lost child, not loved by her parents not even willing to sit down and talk to her, and for her to meet Katsuya, who saved her from what could have been her demise to society. ]
It was a really sad thing to see spoiler[that Katsuya had to leave the world at such a young, because of pneumonia, and it totally devestated Kyoko to the state that she contemplated suicide. And it didn't help that she had her idiot dad call her up and say what he said to her, but I'm glad she hung up on his ass, because he deserved it. If they didn't like her so much, why'd they even get her phone number?  And, on top of that, her relatives on Katsuya's QUESTIONED whether Tohru was really Katsuya's child, RIGHT IN FRONT OF TOHRU. How dumb and insensitive are you going to be?]
She spoiler[couldn't correct her past faults, she only had the future to look to, and that was Tohru. In a sense, Katsuya's death told her that she had to be strong, not for herself, but for Tohru, and I'm sorry that even Kyoko had to leave the world at such an age where she didn't even get to see her daughter get out of the first grade, much less graduate from high school.] |
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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Oh, yes, fighterholic, you just reminded me of those stupid people: spoiler[how could they say such a horrible thing about Tohru and Kyoko at the same time?!
Geez, some people are just unable to understand what love is and other people just like to criticize others without knowing what is really happening there. The horrible things mentioned by those people only made us understand better what a difficult life Kyoko had. ]
Kyoko had alo had problems with accepting that spoiler[she is pregnant. She was afraid that just like her parents she will be uncapable of making a child happy and feel love. She needed Katsuya's courage and also to understand that actually she has never been guilty of how her parents treated her. She was terribly afraid of repeatting the same mistakes and this is by far all our fears. We usually say: oh, I shall never do like my mother or my father did to me. We try to respect them though they might have hurt us at some point and we try to protect our child from this sort of feelings; too bad that in the end some of us repeat the same mistakes. It wasn't the point here, though after Katsuya's death Kyoko was very affected by it and it took Tohru's disappearence to wake her up and understand that she is alive and that she really needs to take care of her daughter. ] 
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Ningensei
Posts: 333 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Yes, I remember and loved the moment when spoiler[Kyoko realized that she still had Tohru. Although Kyoko was depressed about Katsuya, she still had a daughter to raise, though she neglected Tohru at first just out of her depressive and detached state, she soon realized that she was a mother as well and that she needed to give her love and affection to her child. Like how her parents didn't do for her. I was really touched when she realized she had just been leaving Tohru at home and ran quickly and hugged her after Tohru says "Welcome home," and Kyoko is apologizing saying how she is so stupid and she always needs to mess things up once before she learns her lesson.]
On another note, I have resisted your spoilers aya_honda about hspoiler[ow Kyo met Kyoko], because I do want to find out later on my own. It was very difficult and I really was tempted  , but could you perhaps tell me what volume it will be revealed in? Just so I can know how long of a wait I should be expecting?
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I think spoiler[Kyo meeting Kyoko ]comes up in either volume 20 or 21, quite a long ways off by US standards.
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pixiebell
 Posts: 102 |
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Hmmm, I am not sure that I agree that Kyoko's parents were spoiler[some of the worst. True they were terrible and insensitive and just plain hateful, but (now correct me if I am wrong here) didn't Yuki's parents basically sell him to Akito to gain favor? Sure Kyoko's parents were awful to her and kicked her out but at least they didn't profit from it. Not that I am excusing their actions at ALL, I was just thinking out loud.]
I love it when spoiler[various characters stand up to the bad parents in the story. It makes me want to cheer!  ]
Something else I enjoyed about volume 16 was when spoiler[Kyoko accidentally bonked Tohru with the cabinet, freaked out and then fainted at the sight of her little bit of blood. That was so adorable!] |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I think some of us have been labeling spoiler[Rin's parents ]as the worst in the series. In the scene where Kyoko spoiler[accidentally hit Tohru with the door, Kyoko was making sure that Tohru wouldn't be unhappy or anything like that, it certainly proved she was trying to be a parent.]
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murph76
Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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Personally, I'd label spoiler[Rin's parents and Kyo's father ]as the worst in the manga. Luckily, spoiler[Kyo was able to have a somewhat normal childhood after Shishou adopted him, anger issues aside.]
I loved the scene where Tohru spoiler[bumped her head. It was funny and touching to see Kyoko react to it. To me, it showed how much Kyoko had grown through Katsuya's love. I mean, this is a former gang member, a little bit of blood shouldn't bother her and probably didn't in the past. But, when it's her child, the girl she loves and wants to protect, she panics and faints]. I think Uotani summed up Kyoko's changes best: spoiler["To think the Red Butterfly turned out to be a ... a housewife ... and a friendly hostess ... and a goddamn doting frickin' mother!!" To which Kyoko says: "What can I say? It was time to move on." (Chapter 40) I think Kyoko doted on Uotoni a lot, too. She helped her escape from her gang, accepted her for who she was, helped heal her wounds, physical and emotional. I think Kyoko became the mother Uotani never had. ] -Murph |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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It was really easy spoiler[for Kyoko to connect to Arisa because they were in the exact same position. How they ended up that way and how they got out and just certain details are different though. Kyoko's parents were a-holes, Arisa's parents were never around. Kyoko met Katsuya who taught her how to be human again, Arisa met Tohru and Kyoko. Arisa got out of her gang with a few bumps and bruises, Kyoko got out with a broken arm. Kyoko never spoke to her parents after her incident and marriage, Arisa started taking care of her father and making sure he wasn't drinking too much.]
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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I think that if Arisa hadn't met Kyoko spoiler[and absorbed her good influence, Arisa might have ended up the exact same why. Arisa's family life was a little different but, in the end, it would have ending badly for Arisa]
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