Forum - View topicFruits Basket (see 2nd post for thread info)
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Tortoiseshell Tabby Girl
 Posts: 153 |
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Wait, so you're not even going to talk about her grandfather? I like Tohru's grandfather because I believe that he loves Tohru very much, even if he thinks she's Kyoko. The problem is that he has lost authority and become powerless in his family due to his old age, etc. I don't think that one should hold a grudge against him for staying with his daughter's family despite what they do to Tohru. In Vol. 16, spoiler[when Katsuya was talking to Kyoko about his father, it sounded like his father might have used to be more like the rest of the Honda family. But he was changed by the death of his wife, just as many of the characters in Fruits Basket have been changed by the loss of a loved one. And this change seems to point to the fact that he loved his wife very deeply, and as a result I do not think that he could so easily abandon the family of the daughter that they created and raised together.] I believe that Tohru's grandfather may have become more like Tohru than some people might imagine--he appears to love and accept his family and seems to accept how monstrous they can be (I mean, his family is way more cursed, if you think about it, than the zodiac members and Akito. So is Kyo's dad, and some other characters I don't particularly like). Yet, at the same time, he will not back down from his love for his granddaughter, daughter-in-law, and Katsuya, either. I don't think that he can look at it as an "either/or" situation. It's just not possible for him. As for Tohru, I'm pretty sure she loves her grandfather, too. I don't know if she has forgiven the other members of the Honda family, but knowing Tohru, I don't think that it's too hard to believe that she would be able to find that type of forgiveness. spoiler[Plus, that moment when Katsuya gives baby Tohru to his father is just so sweet. You can tell that Grandpa Honda loves Tohru and it's almost like foreshadowing--"Here, Dad, take care of Tohru as best you can when I cannot."] And what better thing could her grandfather have done than give her the advice, support, and chance to leave his family of "evil people" (heh, heh) and go to a family that will help her to live and grow? Ah, I suppose I'll try to say more stuff that is specifically about Tohru later, but I've gotta talk about Kyo if I'm going to talk about Tohru. spoiler[The thing that I love about Tohru and Kyo is that they seem to be like soul mates, or something. Their personalities may be very different, but somehow they just fit together as two people who can love eachother and support eachother.] When one gets knocked down, the other holds them up, and when that other gets knocked down, the one is able to hold them up. It is the sweetest thing. Kyo is the first character, in my opinion, to truly be Tohru's protector and listener. He will do things for her he won't do for anyone else and he will be the shoulder she needs to cry on. He helps her to understand that she can let her pain out too, which is ever so important for Tohru's character, because just as Kyo is able to get in touch with his lighter side by being around Tohru, Tohru is able to get in touch with her darker side by being around Kyo. It's like this lovely yin and yang thing. And what are so very interesting are their similarities that help to explain why they may be drawn to eachother. spoiler[They have both lost their birth parents to tragedy. Kyo lost his mother to suicide and his father basically abandoned him for this reason and because of Kyo himself, while Tohru lost her father to sickness and her mother to a car accident. And they both lost a parent at a young age. And they both had to find families outside their immediate families. Kyo found his true father in Kazuma] and Tohru found her fruits basket family in Hana, Uo, and in the zodiac members of the Sohma family. Perhaps the most important similarity that Tohru and Kyo share are the fact that they were both outsiders. Kyo was born possessed by the spirit of the cat, so he was the outcast among the zodiac members. He was also later abandoned by his father, so he was cast out from his own blood family. In a way, being the cat made him rather like an onigiri in a fruits basket. Tohru was born into an extended family that did not want her (save for her grandfather). In (elementary?) school, she was also an outcast amongst her classmates because they shut her out from participating in their fruits basket game by making her an onigiri. So, an onigiri trying to fit into a fruits basket is rather like the cat trying to fit in with the rest of the zodiac. spoiler[But an onigiri and the cat seem to fit together quite well.] 
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Knowing Lydia, I don't think it was ever her intention not to talk about Tohru's grandfather, because of his characteristics.
As you were saying though, it would be spoiler[hard to forgive a family who doesn't even like you in the first place, but with Tohru, forgiveness may be in hand. Tohru was even forgiving of Akito after all the things that she said to her, on top of all the things she tried to do to her.] It's just sad to see spoiler[how her father died at such a young age, I'm sure she and her father would have gotten along very well. But the seeds of destiny pointed his soul in another direction, and Tohru on her way to meeting the Sohma's and eventually finding Kyo.] |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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No, I like Tohru's grandfather, he's pretty cool. Even though spoiler[he did let the other family members treat Tohru the way that they did. I think that fighterholic was right when he said that Grandfather was powerless these days. The rest of them are just hateful.] |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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They spoiler[don't like Tohru because she's the daughter of the outcast woman that Katsuya decided to marry. They probably hated Kyoko even more when Katsuya died, so far to the extent that they imply that Kyoko slept with another man, that Tohru wasn't his child. ]Such complete BS
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Ningensei
 Posts: 333 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I haven't posted here for awhile.
 I guess I should continue the Tohru discussion!
I really love Tohru's relationships with the spoiler[female members of the Zodiac, Rin and Kisa specifically.] You don't ge to see much interaction between Kagura and Tohru, it seems Kagura's prescence has disappeared. (At least where they are in the English releases). I really loved spoiler[Kisa and Tohur's "Big Sister-Little Sister" relationship, it is just too cute!  Tohru was there for Kisa and seemed to be able to somewhat break through that defensive wall she was putting up around herself. And then afterwards how she became almost like a cute litte kitty following Tohru around. I love how Takaya-sensei draws Kisa with her cat ears and tail sometimes (also the other zodiac members as well) when she is still in her human form.]
spoiler[As for Rin, their relationship got off to a rocky start. She would threaten and demand Tohru to get out of the Sohma's house and business and leave everyone and the curse alone. She was trying to bear the burden of undoing the curse all by herself and couldn't bring herself to go to Tohru, because she knew that she is a mother figure and didn't want to have to rely on another "nice person." But in the end she couldn't help herself and broke down, and Tohru was there to comfort her. I am looking forward to seeing how their relationship progresses!  ]
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Once there was spoiler[that thing that happened between Kagura and Kyo, Kagura didn't impede on Kyo and Tohru's relationship. She knew it would be useless to because Kyo told her the truth. But then Tohru was questioning herself on whether she should pursue the relationship with Kyo, which ended up getting her knocked unconcious by Kagura, which then brought about a fight between Kagura and Rin.]
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Tortoiseshell Tabby Girl
Posts: 153 |
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Ah, I see. Please forgive me if I seemed too presumptuous.  I just really like Tohru's grandfather, especially after reading vol. 16.
spoiler[I agree very much with you about Katsuya. It's incredibly heartbreaking to see how deeply he loved Tohru, how fatherly and gentle he was with her. It just makes my heart ache to know how utterly alone he felt, just as Kyoko did, and then to see the smile on his face when he is holding Tohru and to know that he is going to die. It makes it even more bittersweet to know that even before she was born he was ready to love her (I absolutely adore the conversation he has with Kyoko to let her know that they both can do their best to bring a new life into the world. His words were...wow, how do you describe that? "Saturated" with love?). I also agree that Tohru and Katsuya would have had a great daughter and father relationship. It makes me sad that Katsuya wasn't able to live to see what type of person his daughter became and it makes me sad that Tohru didn't really get to know her father. But for some reason I feel that through her love for Kyo she may be able to understand what the love between her parents was like, perhaps because they were both outsiders just as Kyo and Tohru were outsiders, outsiders yearning for what I think most humans yearn for, though in their cases I think their yearning was legitimately much stronger.. ] You know, I find it really hard to understand people who don't like Tohru, who either call her a doormat or think she's unrealistically cheerful or annoyingly cheerful. There must be reasons for people not digging very deep into her character. I wonder what percentage of the people who say these types of things are still reading Fruits Basket and which ones stopped at the first or second volume. I also can't help but think that maybe they are the type of people who would have tricked Tohru into not being able to play the Fruits Basket game. But maybe I just think those things because Tohru is one of my most favorite female manga/anime characters ever! Tohru is sweet, kind, thoughtful, emotionally intelligent, inquistive, curious (do I dare say as curious as a cat? ), hard-working, selfless, optimistic, a great cook, an awesome cleaner (if only I enjoyed cleaning so much...), helpful, polite, formal, stubborn, accepting/open-hearted, etc. She also seems to have difficulty understanding certain situations because she's either innocent, naive, not paying attention, or she just sees things differently than most people do. She spaces out (which is a characteristic that my friend--who is like my version of Hana or Uo, though she's not specifically like those characters--and I like because we both kind of space out, too. I space out a lot when I'm thinking about my stories or an anime or manga, etc.). Tohru has a right to space out because she works so hard at her paying job, her job as a student, taking care of the cooking and cleaning at Shigure's house and dealing with the Sohmas' problems. I mean, the best time to space out is when you're really tired--it gives your brain a breather. And, actually, since Takaya-sensei wrote about her lack of sleep in one of her first columns in volume 1, I can only wonder if maybe she made Tohru space-out because she was supposed to be tired. It's so nice to have a hero who spaces out!
Tohru is also her own worst enemy in a way. She can take her selflessness to such an extreme that she kind of "walks all over herself." With her optimistic thinking she tries to convince herself that she shouldn't be miserable staying with her aunt's family because she's so lucky. She doesn't easily acknowledge or understand her desire to want to go back to Shigure's house--back home. She's been so busy trying to keep her sprits up that she's forgotten that it's okay to be sad...and that is why Tohru staying with the Sohma's is good not only for them, but good for Tohru, too, because she can connect to the part of herself that really isn't cheerful at all. Anyways, I've been re-reading from the first volume to refresh my memory and write down notes that I can keep with me for when I read the newer American volumes as they come out (I'm waiting for you #17!). spoiler[ I can't believe I never noticed that Tohru's mother had been dead for four months and that Kyo had been off training for four months. Oh My God! How in the heck did I miss such an important detail? Wow, such a connection between them so early in the story...And I loved reading the first volume again after the sixteenth volume because I just realized what I think Kyo meant by saying that Tohru was the same as a child as she is now--I think he was referring to when he accidentally hit Tohru in the forehead with a piece of wood and it made her bleed--very remincent of Kyoko accidentally hitting Tohru with the cupboard door and making her nose bleed--Tohru wasn't even aware of the fact that she was bleeding both times! Ah, just thinking that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy and really strengthens the connections between Kyoko and Kyo and Tohru.] So, here are some of my notes, which are basically centered around Tohru. Quotes are from the English language translation of Takaya-sensei's work by Tokyopop. And these are only from the beginning of the first chapter.
Fruits Basket Notes Vol. 1 Ch. 1 Tohru—“I can’t say my life is easy, but I make out okay. No matter what happens in life, I never let it get me down. That’s me—ever the optimist!” This is Tohru’s strength and sometimes her weakness. Sometimes, by being such an extreme optimist, she is unable to allow herself to connect to her grief and sadness, to acknowledge what she really wants, etc. But most of the time her optimism is what helps her to survive. It would be worse if she wasn’t so cheerful, because then she would probably get sucked into her grief and fall into depression. In the beginning of the story, it is better for her happiness and survival to ignore her deep sadness. After all, people who are truly optimistic, as Tohru is, are able to cause great change to happen. They are able to see the world very differently from the majority of people who suffer from cynicism and pessimism. Tohru’s optimism not only buoys herself, but also her friends and eventually many members of the Sohma family. Tohru reminds people that horrible and tragic things can happen to you, but that life will still be full of wonders and possibilities if you believe that life is a precious gift and are able to find other people who want to believe, too. Shigure—“I thought you young people were bored by old-fashioned superstitions like the Chinese zodiac.” Does this point to the fact that Tohru is different from other people her age? She seems interested and amazed by things that other people her age either don’t care about, or take for granted. Tohru—“Poor thing! Poor, poor, poor cat…I know! I’ll stop being a dog and be a cat! That’s how much I like the cat.” spoiler[ Not only does this link Tohru to Kyo right away, it also shows that Tohru is drawn to someone who is an outsider.] She seems to have identified with the cat when she was a child. Her empathy and sympathy probably stems from her own experience as an outsider. The cat was tricked into not attending the banquet, and Tohru was tricked into not being able to participate in the Fruits Basket game. A. Tohru doesn’t back down from “pigtail” girl, but neither does she get tough with her either. She just states her truth and stands her ground until Uo and Hana can bail her out. Tohru has a very peaceful nature and seems to avoid conflict with her extremely polite attitude. At first she even tries to stop Kyo and Yuki’s fights, but she eventually learns to sort of accept their fights as she learns more about what makes them tick. Tohru—“After I graduate, I want to be able to pay my own way. That’s why I have to start saving up now!” Tohru’s a hard worker. Uo calls her selfless. She appears to not want to have to be a burden on anyone and is willing to work for her own survival. This is probably something else that separates her from many other people her own age. Tohru—“Er…I was eccentric when I was little.” This is Tohru’s explanation to Yuki as to why she wanted to be born in the Year of the Cat. Yet later in the first volume, she tells Kyo how much she still loves the cat. It is possible that Tohru’s explanation to Yuki was her way of making her seem less strange to him (she is probably easily afraid of people not accepting her due to how people have treated her in the past). It may be a response that she used to protect herself, though how consciously she did so is up to debate. She probably learned that saying such things allowed her to be accepted a little more, just as being overly polite allows her to avoid unnecessary conflict. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Umm, wow. I think that is probably the longest post I've seen in this thread yet  I think about spoiler[the fact of the love between Katsuya and Tohru, how it never got into full bloom. I wonder how Katsuya would have felt if he knew that his daughter hated him for the longest time. How sad  Here's how you can tell someone has lost a relative, they usually keep a portrait of that person close to them, like Tohru.]
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aya_honda
 Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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Ok, I missed this week and I'm terribly sorry but there are still many things to be said about Tohru and so nothing will stop me to say them (except the internet connection if it's going to fail me yet again).
Now, about her family first cause there are many things to be said here. I would have something to say about her grandfather though most of the times I like him very much and I think that he has been a terrific replacement for her parents. I think I have mentioned this before but then again I shall repeat myself for it was a long time ago and not included in the character discussion: her grandfather missed something important in Tohru's life. I mean, for crying out loud, spoiler[the girl was sleeping in a tent and she was forced to wash herself into a river, living in a zone rather dangerous cause we all remember what happens in the first volume and how Tohru gets in the Sohma home. I mean, he never wondered himself just what the hell was his grand-daugther doing? I now that Tohru never lied and that her grandpa had no precend to base his thoughts on but on the other hand three months have passed since this girl was living in a tent - the horrible conditions make me even now howl at someone. He never questioned her about how she is, he never asked for a phone number to just check her every once in a while. This girl was on her own for three whole months and her grandpa never knew a thing. I can understand how the girls didn't know, but her grandpa? No, that is unforgivable for me. Children should be ckecked up every now and then, I don't care how mature they might seem. And especially Tohru. ] Then I must say that though I love Tohru's character I can understand why some people just don't like her character. It's just that her kindness and her way of dealing with people seem to be sometimes like rather a product of imagination than a reality but I have met people like her and I must say this: they really exist and they can really transform other people's lives like she does. I think that had Tohru been different in any way, they way she transformed all the people around her wouldn't have been credible anymore. Especially when talking about Kyo . |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Hmm, in a way, Tohru spoiler[gave lots of time and things to her grandfather, but got nothing in return. I guess that's just how things were working. He was living under the luxury of having the rest of the family taking care of him, while Tohru was the exile.]
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Tortoiseshell Tabby Girl
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I've only actually seen and read Fruits Basket up to vol. 16, but I have read about some of the things that happen in volumes 17-23 (which doesn't really bother me because "spoilers"--especially Fruits Basket spoilers--only make me want to read it more. I actually like being able to prepare for the more emotionally painful parts spoiler[and I made sure I knew what the ending was so it would be a bit easier to get through those parts.] spoiler[Plus, I just could not stand the thought of Kyo being locked up and separated from Tohru forever.). Anyways, I just wanted it to be known that I know that Tohru hated her father, but I don't know all the details about it, yet, other than the little bit of foreshadowing from when Hiro asks her why she doesn't speak about her father. However, even though I don't know the details, I think that it's safe for me to say that I think that Katsuya would be beyond heartbroken to know how his daughter hated him. I think it would have been unbearably painful for him to know that.] Do you know people who carry portraits of their lost loved ones like Tohru does? I'm sure many must carry such pictures in their wallets. Actually, it sort of reminds me how I have pictures of my lost loved ones where I can see them everyday. It even reminds me more of a picture of one of my cats (who was one of my bestest friends ever!) that is in a little heart-shaped frame beside my bed. I take that little picture with me when I spend nights at places other than home, too, partly because I was always used to seeing her when I woke up and partly because I want to make sure that I can always keep an eye on one picture of her in case the others are lost or destroyed somehow. Of course, I don't take her picture in the hotsprings with me like Tohru does with her picture of her mom.  I do sort of internally talk to these pictures, though (meaning I keep the words inside instead of speaking them aloud as Tohru sometimes does). Yeah, when I look at these pictures, I always think how lucky I am to live during a time when there are photographs--it does help with the grieving process. And with remembrance. I wonder how much little painted pictures helped back in the day?
Speaking of photographs--one of the first really emotionally intense parts dealing with Tohru was when she started trying to dig through the mess left by the avalanche on her tent and was yelling about how her mother was in pain--that was the first real sign that Tohru is more than just a cheerful, happy-go-lucky girl. That part's just really real and raw and terribly sad. It's made me cry before because it really reminds me of the horrible pain of grief and how much you want the person or pet back even though you know they can't come back. And it also led to a point where the reader was able to read Tohru's thoughts and learn that she has some really deep fears and anxieties--especially the fear of dying alone, which has got to be one of the most terrifying of fears, especially for a sixteen-year-old to have. Tohru needs her own Tohru at that point. Luckily, as she helps the Sohma's, she helps to bring out parts of themselves that are more optimistic like Tohru and so they're able to offer her support and advice, too.
Hmm. That's an interesting thing to point out about Tohru's grandfather. Of course, I personally can't understand how Uo and Hana didn't know, unless there was something that led them to assume that they wouldn't be welcomed by Tohru's father's family or that her father's family wouldn't like them to call Tohru. This is because when they find out that Tohru is staying in Shigure's house, right off the bat they want to go over there to do an inspection of the premises to make sure it's good enough for their Tohru.  I would think that they would have tried to do the same thing when they thought Tohru was staying with her father's family, especially since, looking at the kind of questions they ask her, they didn't seem to trust her father's family. I mean, my Uo-Hana friend, as I shall call her (I think I'll call her that next time I see her) always kept in touch with me and we went over to each other's houses when we were in high school. Tohru must've been really good at coming up with excuses as to why they couldn't come over.
As for Tohru's grandfather, the first thing I got to say is that I think he's suffering from the effects of old age. It's not entirely clear as to how clear his mind is, but he does seem to think that Tohru is Kyoko and he seems to say stuff and then forget what he said. Second, as readers we're not really given all the facts about what went on during the months that Tohru stayed in the tent (personally, I'm surprised that it took so long for her to discover Shigure's house and for her to be discovered. Perhaps her tent was on an area of the property that is rarely traveled?). It may be that Tohru was the one who visited and/or called her grandfather so that he wouldn't worry. I can totally imagine Tohru doing that. Third, who the heck knows what kind of restrictions Katsuya's sister puts on her father? They might not even let the poor guy use the phone, knowing how "generous" they are.  If none of these things were something that could possibly have impeded his efforts to make sure that Tohru was okay, then I totally would agree that it was wrong for him to just ignore her circumstances like that.
I think that maybe there are two types of people who don't like her: people who don't like her because she doesn't seem like someone who could really exist and people who don't like her because all they can see is her cheerfulness and that aspect of her personality annoys them. As for the people who don't like her because they feel she's "fake," I would also like to say that I've known people who are like Tohru. Plus, Tohru is one of the Fruits Basket characters that I think I'm most like, along with Kyo (see if you can wrap your head around that). (After those two characters, there are other FB characters that I identify with, but the percentages of likeness are lower, in my opinion). I think it's a little sad that there are people who haven't met someone like Tohru, but that can't be helped. It also can't be helped that we bring our own experiences and reality to a story and that these things will reflect how we view the story. However, it's possible that there are people who will always not believe that a person like Tohru can exist, and I think these types of people might be too weighed down with pessimism, cynicism, and/or skepticism, and that's unfortunate. I also think that it may be these types of people who find cheerfulness and optimism, and therefore, Tohru, annoying. As I am re-reading Fruits Basket, I keep thinking that I should never stop re-reading it, that maybe I ought to try to read at least a chapter a day and just keep cycling through the series because I feel really energized and creatively-charged after I read it. I don't know if that will happen, though, because I'm rarely able to only read one chapter.  My current reading of Fruits Basket is quite slow and quite thoughtful because I'm really trying to absorb and observe as much as I can. I'm finding that I'm even more impressed with Tohru's character during my current reading. Takaya-sensei not only drew a character that could space out at times, she also drew one that could be genuinely careful at observing others. Tohru is often drawn with a face that is entirely concentrated on trying to understand one of the Sohmas, whichever one it may be at the time. Tohru is different from many of her peers because she seems to not have this almost innate need to stereotype people in order to make sense of the people in her world. She even checks out library books to learn more about Kyo and Yuki's passions (martial arts and gardening, respectively). At first she does call Yuki a prince, but only because others already have. As she learns more about Yuki, she still calls him a prince but her version is based upon actually interacting with more of the real Yuki. And at first she misunderstands Kyo and thinks that he hates her, but Tohru is quite smart and quick when it comes to learning and moving past her preconceptions. She quickly realizes that Yuki and Kyo are more than they appear and she works very hard at trying to see the "real them" and not make assumptions about them spoiler[(which kind of makes me think about what I recently learned about Kakeru...]). I think that Tohru doesn't have to work very hard at not making assumptions and not casting stereotypes on people because I think she naturally knows that people are complex. She talks about her mom's past as a yankee with a smile on her face, so she obviously accepted all of her mother. She accepted Uo and saw more than just a yankee as many would have seen, and she accepted Hana and saw more than some goth girl as others would have seen. Tohru really seems to know that people are more like a stained glass window made up of many different pieces of glass than just a plain, one panel, one color window of glass. She's very intelligent that way. spoiler[The only time she seems not to be able to see someone for who they are is her father, and I think there's probably a lot of reasons for that.]
I really love Tohru's ability to shy away from stereotypes, especially because I try to see people as they really are, too (I really don't like it when people carelessly throw stereotypes around). I just really, really love that about her. I also think that the way Tohru thinks really hard about the different Sohmas reminds me of how as a writer I think about my different characters and what makes them tick (perhaps Takaya-sensei put a bit of herself in Tohru). I guess this makes it a bit ironic that people try to stereotype Tohru's character. I know there are some people who feel like she's this manga/anime stereotype of the happy, cheerful girl who's able to magically solve everybody's problems. Perhaps that is why I think that the way Takaya-sensei handled Tohru's character is absolutely brilliant. She subtly shows Tohru's darker side from the beginning and then brings it out more in the second half of the series. To give someone who seems so cheerful and cute as Tohru some darkness is utter brilliance and totally goes against any stereotype some people might put on her. In high school people would call me cute and adorable and would write in my yearbook that I was so very sweet and should always stay that way, and in high school and college people would comment on my laughter as if I couldn't possibly ever be sad or tired or furious or grief-stricken, etc. People made assumptions about me, a real person, as they do about Tohru, a fictional character. They never even seemed to think that I could have darkness in me or be suffering from sadness or that I could actually be a very grumpy person. And if they never did think those things, that would amaze me since everyone has at least some darkness, some sadness, some grumpiness in them. And I suppose that's why I really marvel at how Takaya-sensei constructed Tohru's character. Perhaps Tohru's character will cause some people to realize that there is always more to know and learn about everyone you meet and know. spoiler[One of the things that I really loved about vol. 16 was learning that Katsuya was the one who named Tohru and that he had his own very special, quirky reason for choosing her name. He said that it brings out her hidden flavor, like adding salt to something sweet to make it better. I absolutely adore that he put so much thought into her name. And Tohru does end up being an unexpected ingredient that makes the lives of the Sohma family better. Though it's more like she added sugar to something bitter to make it better.]
Oh, and I just love how philosophical Tohru can be. She really is very smart, she just doesn't have the type of smarts that you apply to schoolwork or tests. I love how she passes on her mother's ideas about life and formulates her own, such as the one about umeboshi on our onigiri backs. 
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Torhu_San
 Posts: 133 Location: Upstate Ny |
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I think that Tohru's grandfather gave her something important. He gave her the freedom to leave her family and go live with the people who would make her happy and help her spread her wings. He admitted that his relatives were really evil people. In front of them no less. As the legal guardian of Tohru, he could have insisted that she stay with the family, but he didn't. He knew that she would wither and eventually be broken by the people in that household.
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Ningensei
Posts: 333 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Wow, I haven't been on since Friday, there's a lot to read and catch up to. Tortoiseshell Tabby Girl, I am impressed with your posts! They are very long and insightful! I can tell that you love Tohru's character very much, as do I.
I am glad that you have joined the FB discussion.
I will probably be MIA this week, I have a 25 page research paper due next week so I will have to limit my forum time, which includes browsing and posting.  Oh well, once I get this over with and finish my finals, I will finally graduate from the University of Washington next Saturday! Yay!
I think I will try to re read the series as well, it will give me a refresher and perhaps help me be more insightful like Tortoiseshell Tabby Girl and aya_honda. (BTW, welcome back, aya_honda!) Both of you always have such unique and interesting things to say. Oh, and I didn't forget about you either, fighterholic. 
This post seems very sentimental and sappy, haha. Sorry. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Tomorrow and Thursday. Tomorrow and Thursday. Tomorrow and Thursday. And then school's out for the summer!!
I have a lot planned not only for what's going on here in the FB thread, but also for the manga discussions thread and then whatever else is going on in my life.
I think what may be the reason behind certain people not liking Tohru is that they haven't seen her true colors yet. Volume 16 is out, but from volume 17 is where things start to pick up in bringing out the really serious side of Tohru. She's been portrayed as a person who's happy, and seemingly cannot be hurt in any way, physically spoiler[(not true cause Kyo made her bleed)], and mentally. I had thought for a while that Tohru is always a happy person, but then it goes from there, her true colors come towards the end of the series. |
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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Thank you, Ningensei, for the welcoming back, the exams kept me away from the obsession that I have. Just like in your case. Good luck with the exams and hope will talk with us next week being a really proud graduate.
Then I couldn't leave you all alone with the obsession, could I?
Tortoiseshell Tabby Girl, I was so happy that it seemed odd to you too the fact that Tohru's grandpa doesn't realise the situation in which his grand-daughter seemed to be. By the way, as you mentioned the fact that we might not know what would be his state of mind: I have somthing to argue here. I think that unfortunately Tohru's grandpa has got a little comfortable in the position that he was put in the first place. I think that in a way he was very pleased with the fact that he has been the "kind relative" if I can call it like this and the fact that he has been the only one to accept Tohru like his true grand-daughter. I mean, you know how we people are: when we do something really kind and from the bottom of our hearts, no matter how sincere the gesture is, we always get to have an unconscious opinion that we are really kind and nice people, and this is what I think happened to Tohru's grandpa and I shall bring two arguments to sustain my ideas: one would be the fact that spoiler[when his other grand-son implies that something might have happened to Tohru in a house full of men - stupid &%$#&*^$@ - it is her grandpa who slaps him on the face and tells him that every person who will say something bad about his grand-daughter will suffer. ]I think that this shows a man who has a strong will when it comes to defend something and that he is capable of grand gestures like the one I have mentioned before. Even more, the fact that he has an intuition about the importance of the Sohma boys in Tohru's life is really insightful, not to mention extraordinary, and I think that by far this shows a man who doesn't lack any strong will and smart ways of dealing with life. Therefore I would say that he is just very comfortable with his position: he has done all that he could. In his view at least...
The other instances that I wanted to remind you were the ones in which spoiler[for example at the cemetery when he meets Kyo and he tells him about Tohru's way of speaking - that it resembles very much to Katsuya's only because she wanted it so to attract Kyoko's attention upon her - and the she has to stop that. And he even points to the fact that only Kyo can make her understand that. The other scene is the one towards the end of the manga so I won't mention it just not to spoil big time Ningensei - who would kill me if I do such a thing - again it proves that he has a very clear picture of reality in his head and that unfortunately he has just reserved the right to take care of Tohru from the shadows - If I might say something like this. ] So I really don't think we must doubt of his state of mind and perhaps we might have to search for the reasons of his behaviour in other parts. Or he might have just proven himself to be quite very very sloppy and forgetful of things.
I agree on the other hand with you, Tortoiseshell Tabby Girl, on how Tohru's character has been created. I think that she was one of the most briliantly built characters in this manga. I think that actually Takaya-san succeeds in clearly playing with stereotypes. I mean, many people have certain expectations from the characters: for instance Kyo is the simple rebellious character, Yuki is the girly dude, Momiji is the always happy guy, Hatori is the difficult and cold character etc. In fact they prove to be far away from these mere stereotypes, because they are constructed to be much more profound. It is one of the few manga in which I actually attended to a real development of the characters and I have seen how many facets of the same character have been unraveled to me. And Tohru is by far one of the most complex characters in the manga (I would say she is very much on the same level with Shigure - the Machiavellic character in this manga and by far the master-pupeteer) She seems to be happy all the time, she seems to be undefeated and always so wise about her life and lives of the others and yet she has her own demons to fight against spoiler[she doesn't believe in her sometimes, she feels like she has been a replacement for her father and on the other hand she has been rejected because she didn't resembled enough to him, she lies to herself quite on many occasions] I also believe that one of her greatest fears would be that of being rejected. On many occasions we can see this fear of her, probably due to her "nice relatives"
Now I really must stop here. I just have to add here: Tortoiseshell Tabby Girl, can't wait for your next post! It seems that this thread just won't die!
PS. I promise I will check my post for all the spelling faults later! I have to learn for an exam now.
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