Forum - View topicWhat? Tokyopop exclusive Website Manga Sales?
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Abarenbo Shogun
 Posts: 1573 |
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http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/9229.html
Bad....very bad. Oh, wait: http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/9244.html |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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OH...MY...GOD!!!
This has "such a really bad idea" written all over it. Or, "Corporate Goons trying to fix something that ain't broke." The opinion writer was correct. This move is going to alienate their consumer base. We want the books in our hands (shrink-wrapped or not), we want to feel the weight of the book, we want to see the cover art up close, we want to flip it over and closely read the description on the back. And I, for one, will be most extremely pissed if a title I've been collecting suddenly becomes "web only." |
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The Naked Beast
 Posts: 1028 Location: A Blue Planet |
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Remember, the first rule of dealing of terrorists, which is also the international standard, is to not give in to their demands. |
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Patachu
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 1325 Location: San Diego |
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uh...
animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27523 Also: ICv2 interview with TP's Mike Kiley, plus more retailer reactions http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/9231.html http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/9232.html http://www.icv2.com/articles/talkback/9234.html http://www.icv2.com/articles/talkback/9245.html A bunch of people with thoughts and opinions http://www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/more_reaction_to_tokyopops_exclusives/ http://www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/theyre_still_talking_about_tokyopop/ http://tcj.com/journalista/?p=168 http://www.mangablog.net/?p=622 http://www.mangablog.net/?p=623 http://www.mangablog.net/?p=626 http://www.mangablog.net/?p=629 http://www.lovemanga.co.uk/2006/08/1062/ http://www.lovemanga.co.uk/2006/08/1066/ http://www.lovemanga.co.uk/2006/09/1069/ http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/30/more-tokyopop-reaction/ http://translationdojo.com/blog/2006/08/costs_of_manga.html http://www.icaruscomics.com/wp_web/?p=67 http://www.icaruscomics.com/wp_web/?p=83 http://comics.212.net/2006_08_01_archive.html#115686758645349049 http://www.postmodernbarney.com/2006/08/manga-headaches.html http://sporadicsequential.blogspot.com/2006/08/dragon-rears-its-ugly-head.html http://sporadicsequential.blogspot.com/2006/08/cut-one-head-off-and-two-more-sprout.html http://sporadicsequential.blogspot.com/2006/08/stealing-page-from-mark-millar.html (Full list of TP Web Exclusives, is probably actually useful) http://www.minaidehazukashii.com/?p=280 http://www.crocodilecaucus.com/wordpress/2006/08/29/oh-tokyopop/ http://www.crocodilecaucus.com/wordpress/2006/08/30/this-stick-needs-a-carrot/ http://www.crocodilecaucus.com/wordpress/2006/08/31/I've-got-to-stop/ http://slithytoves.sytes.net/%7Edave/wordpress/?p=1526 http://precur.blogspot.com/2006/08/shop-around-corner.html I was trying to figure out why there was a total ANN non-reaction to this news (and the Mike Kiley interview) which was clearly momentous enough to make an entire internet puke its own guts out. Either no one on this forum reads any of the titles that are being moved to Web Exclusive (which pretty much proves the "they aren't selling" point), or everyone was silently complicitly in agreement with what TP is doing. I guess the user base around here needs a little poke in the back before they get into their usual angry ranty mode. Also I'm bemused that the news item or the Kiley interview did not make the frontpage news trawl when it obviously seems to be a big fecking deal for anyone who gives a care about manga. I mean, is it just me, or is this a more pressing issue than a Megaman anime or the Tenjho Tenge dealie (which is like A YEAR OLD and only concerns one series anyway)? |
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slickwataris
 Posts: 1334 Location: Carol Stream, Illinois |
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I wonder how this is going to affect their original English manga like Atomic King Daidogan. If they told me that they'd put my manga at my local Borders and then say "sorry we want to do something new so you can only buy it online" I would be extremely pissed. I wouldn't want to work with them again if I was him.
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Kagemusha
 Posts: 2783 Location: Boston |
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Pretty much. Let's face it, most manga fans don't care about series that don't concern them (admittingly I wasn't going to bother posting here until people actually posted opinions rather than just linking the interview). They could release a watered-down, kid friendly version of Barefoot Gen and aside from the outrage on the blogosphere and The Comics Journal no one would give a shit. Because everyone knows Gen is a kids comic, whereas Tengo Tenge is SO much more mature.
Sad to say, but we all know manga is still largely reguarded as a kind of "side interest" by the anime community. As insightful and proffesional as sites like lovemanga are, I think the community needs an actual proffesional site to be taken more seriously (and certianly not "myspace for the manga lifestyle"). From reading the interview I actually think Kiley believes all the stuff he's saying. I mean even if they can pull off the whole "manga lifestyle" thing and get viral marketing down for the exlusives, how many people are really going to be willing to pay full price plus shipping (just compare it to Netcomics' approach)? Even if they reduced prices and nail viral marketing the community they've amassed probobly isn't going to buy into it. I've heard some people defend it by saying they're finding a way to bypass Diamond for titles that only sell in comicbook stores, but is it really going to matter if the whole thing blows up in their face? I've heard some people say that they're becoming desperate and I won't go that far but they're clearly under some pressure if they're trying to grab this much of the pie. What I'd like to know is what's next for the online exclusivity? I don't know how much control they have over Blu, but yaoi seems to be a somewhat logical (emphasis on somewhat) way to milk a strong fanbase. Hopefully tommorow I'll get to talk to the people at the comic shop I go to (which is quite devoted to manga) about this to see if their opinions fall in line with Chris Butcher's. Yeah, and of course it breaks my heart to see Dragon Head, one of the few great Japanese comics they publish, on this list. I don't know who's to blame, Tokyopop's failed attempt at marketing or American fans for being stupid, but it sucks either way. |
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Seyl
Posts: 23 |
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LydiaDianne, from your comments, I take it to mean that you believe the exclusive online titles will not actually be in print, that you won't receive an actual printed copy, but from rereading the interview and going to TP's website the exclusive titles will be in print, but the only place that you will be able to purchase them is through TP. TP's website says (I dislike the new look of TP's website very much, but I wanted to determine if these titles were really going to actually be in hard copy or just digital/online.)
The interview also says that these titles will be in printed
I take this to mean that yes, these will be in print. I'm more interested in how many they will overprint, seeing as this is, for me, not a very convienent way to purchase any title I might be interested in, and with the new website design I avoid going there to determine release dates, or any new titles they are publishing. I am likely to forget that a new book in the series is coming out, and forget to order it, or just decide not to bother ordering it and see if I can find the series in Japanese, which will take me forever to read on my own, which is why I usually prefer english translations. Currently the only title I am interested in is Dragon Head, but it's well written and it was disappointing to find this title on their "exclusive" list.
Just because the bookstore near you didn't carry the books, doesn't mean others did not. I'm lucky in that there are 4 major bookstores within a 15 mile radius of where I live, so I can usually find a title, or order it, if I'm interested in it. All of these have carried, at some point, most of the titles that are not the first book in a series. The comic shop around here has also carried some of these books as well. I doubt most of them have sold very well, which was used as one of the reasons for the choice of some of the titles becoming online exclusives. As for the title being "sold eventually online or in a bookstore" it is being sold online, and only at one location, TokyoPop's website. As for how "important" of a change this really is, I'll wait and see what happens with it, talk with my friends at the comic shops to see what they think, etc. If TP starts adding more series that I'm interested in to the exclusive list, then unless it's something I'm really interested in, which Dragon Head actually is, then I'll likely just pass on them mostly because of the inconvience and the awful new web design. On the other hand, if they choose more titles that appeal to someone who isn't a teenager for their online exclusives, i.e josei or seinen, I might find myself taking another look, though I seriously doubt this will happen. |
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hanachan01
 Posts: 504 |
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I don't like this online exclusive things because I dislike their webpage. I was on it for the first time since a few months ago, way before the redesign. If you want to find info on a book they publish, good luck. I was writing an article on one of Erica Sakurazawa's titles for Wikipedia, and needed to go to the website for some more info. However, it took me 5 minutes to find the book. And how did I find it? The very small search bar. There is no links to the manga they publish anymore, I had to use the search bar. It seems like the 'community' thing is more important to them than publishing quality manga.
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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I was in a hurry when I wrote that this morning since I had to get ready for work, so I probably didn't make myself entirely clear. I do understand that they are actually going to print the manga and send them to the people who order them. But what I was trying to say is that most people, before they buy the manga, want to actually touch and feel it. I'm one of those people who WILL NOT order a book on-line because I do want to look at it: see the cover art, read the back, feel the weight of it in my hands. I hope that I've clarified my postion.  
I don't think that this venture will work for Tokyo Pop. From what's been said here, navigating their website already sucks and the indications are this new venture isn't helping. I don't know really, I guess we will all have to wait and see, but I for one am not planning on using TP's website. |
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Seyl
Posts: 23 |
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It does clarify your point, sorry for the misunderstanding. I can definately understand that feeling, I prefer to see a book in my hands before I buy it, but I am willing to buy online for continuation or if it's a sale and I'm trying a book that looked interesting, but I didn't or couldn't to pick up earlier. That and for the number of books (not just manga) that I tend to buy or read in any given month, if I didn't look online or watch for sales I'd be spending quite a bit more, or buying less. In the end, nothing beats having the book in your hands! I definately agree with you on TokyoPop's website, I don't want to go anywhere near there. First time I went there after their new design launched I wondered if I'd gone to the wrong site. To me it's an eyesore, unwieldy and frustrating. But then I doubt that I'm part of their target audience. If TP is serious about making the online exclusive work, they need to tighten up their presentation on their website regarding it at the very least. Right now it's just a list of the titles, not even linked to any information about said title. Taking a very quick glance at their forums, I didn't go very deep, it doesn't seem like they have advertised there, but I'd think they'd want to take advantage of their new.. resource. It does have a chance of working for them, but, from the little I've seen, they need to put more effort then is readily apparent into it. I'm still taking a wait and see attitude towards it, but I don't have very high expectations. Then again, TP's done some other "innovative" things and made them work to their advantage. |
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Richard J.
 Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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I must not be part of their target audience either. It took me nearly ten minutes just to find the release date for a series. Personally, I'm not going back their unless they pay me. Who designed that abomination? A chimp on PCP? Luckily none of the titles I read are on their list. Still, they're whole strategy seems off to me. Isn't the goal of a company to "expand?" If they restrict access to titles, casual fans are likely not to even be aware of their existence. Given the difficulty navigating their new site, even hardcore fans are going to have a problem. Shouldn't they be trying to get new fans rather than just hoping that the hardcores will keep buying? Isn't this the same mentality (along with Super Hero Obsession Syndrome) that's nearly killed the US comics industry? Maybe I'm a special case, but I've picked up a ton of anime and two manga series (both Tokyopop titles) solely based on fumbling across them on a shelf. If not for a wandering eye while browsing shelves, I'd never have bought quite a few of my favorite series. (In case anyone cares, the manga are Remote and Because I'm the Goddess.) |
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ShadrachAnki
 Posts: 180 Location: New England |
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I have mixed feelings about the Tokyopop site-exclusive titles, but overall it seems that it has the potential to be a good thing. All the titles they have on their list of exclusives so far are titles that either have not been selling well in the stores or that the stores were not interested in stocking.
Web-exclusive releases will allow Tokyopop to continue publishing these series. I don't think they're trying to alienate their customer base; they're trying to find a workable solution to the unfortunate issue that many of the series with a small and devoted fan base simply aren't going to appeal to the more mainstream readership, and producing them as if they are will only reduce their profit margins. It does seem to be somewhat counter-productive to limit the release to just their site, but even that makes sense from a marketing and distribution standpoint. With this limitation in place they only have to worry about stock for one distribution location--their own. They can make the print runs smaller to maximize the profit from each unit because they won't need to factor in potential unsold returns from the bookstore distributors across the USA and Canada. The biggest risk I currently see is the fact that they do have a number of first volumes in their list of web-exclusives. While I know there are people who will buy a series sight unseen, I also know plenty of people (myself included) who prefer the option of being able to hold the book in their hands, flip through it, and get a feel for the story and artwork. The most obvious workaround to this lack would be to have online previews for the titles that won't make it into stores.
The redesign of the site is hideous--targeting a demographic that most of us probably don't fall under--but they have been improving functionality. You just need to figure out how their sorting system works. Basically, the major links are all on the left-hand side. Clicking on the "Books" tab will take you to the linked list of titles they have in current release. "Exclusives" brings you to the online exclusive titles (with summaries, though not very complete ones). "Online Manga" brings you to the stuff they were releasing in online preview format. Their release schedule is located underneath the Editorials section, and clicking on the "More" link at the bottom brings you to their complete release calendar.
You aren't a special case; I'm the same way, as are plenty of other people I know. However, it seems that Tokyopop is going about this in a fairly sensible fashion; testing the waters to see if it's even a viable option. They really do need to work on tightening up their site design, though. Even if I have figured out how to navigate it fairly quickly I still really dislike it. It's too busy, and it doesn't seem to know what it really wants to be. Until they remedy that element, it's going to be less than useful for most people not of the mySpace demographic. ~Shadrach Anki |
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ParadoxCafe
Posts: 46 Location: Your Face |
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Can we ONLY get them from TP.com? If that's true it's gonna totally suck. I like to get my books from other sites like Overstock.com. Damn Tokyopop.
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Wolverine Princess
 Posts: 1100 |
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I am a part of their target audience, and I find the new website layout absolutely revolting. Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive, but I think the Myspace "manga lifestyle" thing they're going for is an insult to the intelligence their customers. I signed up for it, just to see what it was like, and in less than a day I got about fifty bulletins on my page from some dumb girl saying “.::~*LOLOL I LYK DNANGEL OKBYE*::..”. The site is overrun with rabid, socially inept children running around spamming the site with advertisements for their poorly drawn web-comics and sound clips of themselves singing karaoke to anime theme songs. If that’s what a manga lifestyle is, I want no part of it. I’m not going anywhere near the Tokyopop website unless they clean up this horrible mess and revert it back to the way it used to be.
I’m not quite sure what you’re implying here. Are you saying that today’s manga-lovin’ whippersnappers don’t give a damn about one of the greatest comics (let alone manga) ever written? Barefoot Gen is a beautiful, heart-wrenching masterpiece that everyone who considers themselves a comics fan should read. Tengo Tenge is a throw-away, run of the mil, fanservice-laden piece of drivel. |
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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I've never used the Tokyo Pop website myself. But has anyone written to TP and told them that their site sucks?
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