Forum - View topicNEWS: Australia's Madman Ent: DBZ Kai's Buu Saga Should Come in 2014
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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This argument is beyond moot, regardless. Funimation doesn't practice music replacement anymore and they're on the outs with Bruce Faulconer. There is both zero need and zero chance that anything Faulconer-related will be on Kai discs.
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AtoMan
Posts: 161 |
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Because you seem to ignore all the other valid arguments, there's one objective reason you can't ignore - because they didn't for Kai. Why would they start doing it now?
...honestly? No. Every movie, TV series etc. for decades have been prepared with the possibility of being dubbed. Music replacement, when unnecessary... is unnecessary. Didn't they release the "TV Cut" episodes of DBZ for those, who want to feel the Faulconer-induced nostalgia? They didn't watch Kai. They didn't watch uncut Z. There's no need to insert that music where it doesn't belong. |
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Primus
 Posts: 2762 Location: Toronto |
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I believe this segment of Kai will have an original soundtrack anyways.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I know that. I very clearly said that they wouldn't do it for this release.
You missed my point, which is that automatically discounting something because it wasn't original is a bad policy. That's because if you followed your own policy you'd have to exclude stuff that you don't want to leave out. It's like making a blanket ban on wheeled vehicles to get rid of all the cars on the road, which has the undesirable side-effect of also banning vehicles you want to keep such as bicycles, buses and trains. penguintruth should have found a better reason why Faulconer's music is bad beyond "it wasn't the original music of the show".
Excuse me, but I did buy Dragonball Kai, and I know many other fans who at least watched it. Faulconer's score is the music that the initial crop of English-speaking fans watched. The music that we listened to when we avidly watched the show as kids. Do not underestimate the strength of nostalgia we have. Dragonball Kai is not just for new fans. After all, the home video release isn't going to be bought by little children, it will be bought by adult fans with disposable income. Many of these fans wanted the DBZ experience but without having to sit through all the filler, all the interminable pauses and stares and silly do-nothing scenes that don't add anything except runtime. To that end Dragonball Kai was a godsend, albeit one that never came close to living up to its potential. |
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AtoMan
Posts: 161 |
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That's irrelevant, because Kai wasn't even supposed to use Kikichi's score in the first place
 Even though fans seemed to want it from the beginning, Toei's decision was different and if they weren't forced to do so, we'd never get "original" DBZ music on Kai. Even though it's not always the same music in the same scenes.
I'm pretty sure it IS for new fans mainly. Or those who would rewatch it on TV. Or those who buy all these FUNi re-releases where they can't even do everything properly and always screw up something to justify another re-release. Faulconer's music - which i never even heard, just like majority of the fandom worldwide - was something that US dubbing (or, more precisely, localising) companies were doing at that time. It wasn't exactly something that should have been done, as 4kids' example has shown. One Piece in a form closer to original is still a phenomenon. Just like DBZ was - it became popular in all these countries that never replaced any music (well, then you have that hideous french opening, but...). Nostalgia is a very subjective thing. For some it's the replacement music, for others it would be station logo, static, certain commercials... and for some that would be all that filler that seems to be silly to majority. You can't really please everyone when you start counting all the memories you'd have from watching the original broadcast. Do they even still use the same voice cast for Kai? Even the original changed some, and those who, thank God, didn't die yet may sound noticeably older. You can't please everyone, and when on limited budget, you tend to please the majority. And the majority prefers original music, apparently. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I wasn't trying to argue over why I think it's bad, I was arguing why it shouldn't be in the show. Even if it was excellent, it's not the music intended for the show, so it shouldn't be there.
If you want to go into why I dislike the Faulconer score, that's a whole different discussion. |
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KabaKabaFruit
 Posts: 1871 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba |
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There is a difference between what shouldn't be there and what is there. The bottom line is that the Faulconer score exists and it has its fans. If the score is not on any future releases, the fans will whine, bitch, and moan. There are no two ways about it. To simply say that you don't want to see the score on any future releases is laughably unrealistic and no amount of posting on any forum is gonna change that. The needs of a few are outweighed by the needs of many.
Your best bet is to either get a set and switch the BGM to "Japanese Score" and leave it at that or just import the R2s. The market on this side of the ocean is far different and you have to adapt to it. |
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4KidsFan
Posts: 30 |
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BULL. It shouldn't matter that it's not the original music. It's music intended for the DUB and if it's good I don't see why it shouldn't be in this version of the show. You can't just reject it because it's not the original. If the music is good and fitting to the show's scenes then you can clearly deal with it and should LIKE it. It's not like the Japanese music really does the show a justice, and it doesn't as the case is with a lot of other anime shows, so it's rather a good thing that the dub replaces it to something more fitting and appealing for a new set of audiences. I'm not complaining and neither should you if you know damn well the replacement scores are good as hell and much more fitting. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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The replacement scores for the English dub were nothing more than amateurish promotional sound bed fodder used to obfuscate the fact the show was a Japanese product made in the 1980s. Toei didn't produce the show with Faulconer in mind, so therefore it has no place. It's not the real music of the program.
It certainly has no connection to Kai whatsoever, as Funimation doesn't do music replacement for anything now, so why would they bring it back? And how? On a personal note, for the quality of the music itself, I find the Faulconer is vastly inferior to the orchestral music Kikuchi and Yamamoto composed. The synthetics and pot banging in Faulconer and company's tracks lack the emotional gravity and breadth that the horns and strings bring to Kikuchi and Yamamoto's tracks. Dragon Ball/Z is essentially exaggerated wuxia, with science fiction and comedy mixed in, and feeds off the natural power of its characters, and thus the orchestral music sounds all the more fitting because it doesn't draw on crass artificiality. I'm not unaware of the nostalgic impact of the Faulconer score on the North American fans of Dragon Ball Z, but by and large, it's irrelevant. Funimation has chosen to go the more honorable, accurate route with how it handles newer DB properties, so there's no reason to fall back to old practices. This is why they have ceased altering the dialogue to the lengths they once did, allowing for the actual motivations of the characters and the mood of the scenes to shine through, without interference from silly nonsense that the dub writers felt sounded neat at the time. Last edited by penguintruth on Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:44 am; edited 5 times in total |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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You're right on the principle and I agree with you. Yet if I let my imagination run wild many an anime would need a serious score. Not the nanny like things they output in Japan. Take Macross for instance. The background music in the original is so bland, so banal for such an epic storyline. It just sounds ridiculous. Robotech had a much better bgm and only that. Keeping a score on the basis of artistic integrity even if it is objectively shit is one thing. Saying that it's impossible to rescore and anime to have a better music is just as ridiculous. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Well, first of all, I disagree that SDF Macross had banal background music. In fact, I can't even recall Robotech's soundtrack at all. But it's true that SDF Macross doesn't exactly the most memorable soundtrack as far as BGM. The SDF Macross music was mostly noteworthy for Mari Ijima's cute little (if shallow) ditties and not incidental tunes.
Second, no anime should ever be rescored by a dub studio/licensor, even if they could improve on it. If you don't like the music the show was made with, that's fine, then say the music is bad. But it's not the place of the dub studio to replace it with their own. Call me naïve, but even understanding that they're a business looking to make a profit, I still feel hey have a certain responsibility toward the work not to drastically alter its content. In the case of DBZ, I don't care for the practice of replacement music OR the music they used. |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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You certainly realise that artistic integrity doesn't even play a role in how western licensors deal with anime. Right ? Right ? It's the Japenese that decide wether you can or cannot change the anime. So the fault lies squarely in the land of the rising sun. Except if you believe that local licensors can do what they want without any approval of the Japanese. Pay enough money and the Japanese won't care a iota about artistic integrity. It works this way in anime and in manga. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Just because it's legally permissible, doesn't necessarily mean that it's right. And I don't see anybody arguing for replacement music for any other show. I doubt it's because everybody thinks that the Japanese music is just that bad to warrant an exception. Funimation's altering DBZ just gets a pass because of nostalgia. If any studio did today what Funimation did with DBZ those years ago, there would practically be riots.
Like I said, it's a moot point, besides. There is zero chance of Faulconer music in the DBZ Kai dub. I don't think they even have the rights to reuse it like that, even if they wanted to. It certainly wouldn't jibe with Funimation's more faithful treatment of this version of DBZ. |
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4KidsFan
Posts: 30 |
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I don't care what they had in mind. Their scores was not fitting at all and lots of people over here in the Western world would have seen that and criticized the music being very unfitting and a total turn off. The makers of the DBZ dub got it right when it came to changing the music. Now you have the nerve to talk crap about Faulkner's scores being inferior? Oh hell no. The Japanese music at times were very video game like and cheesy. The Japanese score people ought to be ashamed of themselves for making such scores and don't you get carried away just because it's the original. It may be the original, but it was not good. Faulkner got it right when it came to the music and thank God did he give the show the best damn music scores that freaking said Dragonball Z and let audiences know exactly know what the tone here was all about.
I don't really care about this. My main concern was just you hating on dub music in general and I just wanted to talk to you on that since I ever so strongly disagree with you and you really need to appreciate them if you know they're good and not need to let the fact that it's not the original cloud your appreciation on them. But to give my opinion on them incorporating Faulkner music into the Kai show since you brought it up, I don't mind if they did that. They can do whatever they want so it's not like they have to keep the trend going where they change music, and their decision to do so is not going to kill anyone, especially you. As long as the scores are good, there should be no complaints from anyone. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Hey, just for a laugh, explain how Faulconer's techno-factory/WWE entry music is superior for the show. Please explain in detail, examining the themes, the instrument sounds, and the use in scenes.
I'd sure like to know how, in the decade before Funimation added Faulconer's music to DBZ, all the fans of the show worldwide had it all wrong and were missing out on the real music, the Faulconer music. Quick, write a petition demanding that Toei bring the Faulconer soundtrack to the Japanese releases! Save those poor Japanese fans who thought the show was a wuxia martial arts series instead of a Summer Slam event that for some reason invited the Eurythmics to play! But then, with a screen name like "4KidsFan", I'm not entirely certain you aren't a troll. |
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