Forum - View topicFullmetal ANNCast: Brotherhood
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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The thing is that sure Breda doesnt get a lot of dramatic scenes (he does get some like that scene with Havoc when he talks about retirement) but at least there seems to be reason why Mustang has him around. There's a bond that they share that is absent from the first anime because there only use in the 2003 version is strictly comedy. Even Riza Hawkeye is mainly used to be the straight man to Mustang and the rest of his crew her entire character is summed up by "you're useless when it rains". As for the ending of both versions: there are a ton of shonen mangas where the main character is some chosen one destined for greatness, and who at the end achieves some mystical power that makes their hair grow bright, and I am sick and tired of that. The fact that any soldier could have killed Father or Dante getting killed by a relatively minor character was really refreshing. |
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Ian K
 Posts: 250 |
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Good podcast, Hope, Mike, Zac. I've been enjoying this series of critical discussions, and look forward to more in the future!
I'm gonna comment on Hunter-X-Hunter, since I'm in the middle of watching it, while everything I have to say about FMA has already been brought up in the podcast or this thread. The differences between the old and new HxH series are eerily similar to the differences between the old and new FMA series, albeit to a far less extreme degree. -Old HxH adapted less of the manga -Old HxH is slower paced -Old HxH takes more liberities (but actually diverge with the plot) -Old HxH focuses more on the establishing a tone and exploring characters -New HxH looks newer (duh) -New HxH has fights that drag on waaayyy tooo looonnnggg in the Chimera Ant Arc -New HxH is more easily discovered In the case of HxH, though, I don't think the differences are great enough that you need to watch the same material twice. I'll go into more detail on this in the thread I started, but basically if you like new things you can just watch the new show, while if you like good things - I mean, if you prefer the style of the older show - you can watch the first series and take off from where you ended in the new one.
I disagree with this SO HARD (though I haven't read the manga, only seen most of the anime adaptations). Yes, Furuhashi characterized some characters differently, but almost always for the better. When Furuhashi saw a chance to go deeper and darker with a character, he always took it. This starts in the very beginning. In the first part of the Hunter Exam, spoiler[we learn about Leorio and Kurapika's tragic paths through hallucinations. This is WAY effective than the manga (and 2011 anime) which just has the characters say "hey we're here because we have tragic pasts"]. We see this "show-don't-tell" approach again and again with Killua on the airship, with Mito when Gon visits her, and finally in the very last scene of the last episode, which is SO GOOD. spoiler[How can your eyes stay dry when Leorio calls Kurapika on the phone in the park? HOW?] The argument that "Hunter-X-Hunter is fun adventure story and Furuhashi made it too dark" doesn't hold water for me either. This is a story with an incredible amount of murder, up to and including GENOCIDE. I would argue that these dark elements are what set HxH apart from the shonen pack, and Furuhashi was simply doubling down on the strongest aspect of the source material. In other words, he took what was good and made it better. That's what good adaptations do. I'll grant you that there are scenes, episodes, and even an entire arc (Heaven's arena) that are handled better in New Hunter, but Old Hunter hits harder where it counts for me. But that's just me 
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SailorTralfamadore
 Posts: 499 Location: Keep Austin Weeb |
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You know, I do agree with the people saying that Roy Mustang didn't need to kill Winry's parents in order to experience trauma. The stuff he did in Ishbal was traumatic enough.
The real issue is that the manga/Brotherhood doesn't do anything with either of those. Mustang is never allowed to deal with the sins of his past in a way that shows any kind of psychological complexity or realism. He talks about being broken up by it, but we never see it. The only time he actually loses his cool in any way is when he's fighting Envy and finds out Envy kills Hughes, and it's treated as a decidedly out-of-character moment for him. The 2003 anime dealt with the consequences of not just him killing Winry's parents but also what he did to the Ishbalans during the war. Along with his alcoholic bender where he considers resurrecting them with human transmutation, and Hughes has to shake him out of it, Mustang also has a traumatic flashback to killing an Ishbalan child in "Fullmetal vs. Flame" when he's about to defeat Ed in their alchemy battle. He can't snap because Ed reminds him too much of that kid, and we see him with a similar terrified expression like he had in the scene where he killed the Rockbells. He also expresses regret over all the deaths he caused, like he does in the manga/Brotherhood, but this is supported by his actions and his psychological state. The whole thing stinks of the manga/Brotherhood just not wanting to do anything to ruin the fandom's image of their pretty-boy. I realize that Arakawa likely made the decision of who killed Winry's parents before the first anime got there, but having it be Scar always smacked to me of "oh, of course we can't have any of our sympathetic Amestrians do something so unforgivable to someone we care about, gotta give it to the villainous Bad Minority!" (The fact that Scar doesn't stay a villain is a moot point here.) Regardless, Mustang's character writing is really weak there (I mean, that entire version of the story has weak character writing, but he really suffers) and he's clearly a far less complex character than he was in the 2003 anime. I can't even believe the fandom debates this, frankly.
Probably because time doesn't flow linearly inside the Gate? What I really wonder with these kinds of questions is: why does it matter? It's a reference to our world and its history regardless of the "rationale" behind it, so thematically it's sound. The worldbuilding explanation here is irrelevant to understanding what this story wants to say, so it's not really a problem that the writers left fans to draw their own conclusions. I wouldn't complain about this instance, but it's becoming a pattern in this thread and it's kinda boggling my mind. As Zac, Hope and Mike said in the ANNCast, the first FMA anime isn't all that concerned with worldbuilding like the manga/Brotherhood is. It isn't concerned with having an explanation for every little detail. Personally, I like that about it. Last edited by SailorTralfamadore on Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Covnam
 Posts: 3655 |
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Great anncast this week, really enjoyed the topic and looking forward to the next one.
The main topic at hand has too many walls of text, so I'll be skipping that this time. Personally, I prefer Brotherhood. I do agree that it did leave some good points out of the manga and the initial 13 eps went to fast through the material. Definitely would have preferred the original series being ignored and have Brotherhood extended another dozen eps or so. I'd love to see Soul Eater, Claymore & Trigun redone. Now that these series are all complete, they could be faithful, filler free adaptations. Blue Exorcist would be good, but since it's still on-going, I'd rather wait on that one. Hyper Police, Kaichou wa Maid-sama, Omamori Himari, Princess Jellyfish, Otome Youkai Zakuro & Tenjou Tenge to name a few others. |
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invalidname
 Contributor Posts: 2449 Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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As for other anime to remake, particularly in the case where they were made when the manga was incomplete, isn't Fruits Basket the howlingly obvious answer here? Hell, didn't Hope bravely try to do the job herself? The existing anime has its appeal, but of course it's dated and woefully incomplete.
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Shadowrun20XX
 Posts: 1935 Location: Vegas |
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What is there to say what hasn't already been said in the last decade +?
FMA 2003 was unfinished, It told a great story but ended with a reality shock. FMA Brotherhood is finished material. Arakawa was near finished with the manga. The actual story ended up being a generic 7 deadly sins story with a damn cop out ending. As a whole all of it is fantastic but the 2003 edition was celebrated in a way that Brotherhood will never get. There were countless DVD editions, a movie continuing the filler ending, multiple videogames, and an influx of cosplay. By 2009 the FMA ship had already sailed. Most fans were just waiting to see how the manga ended. The series was exhausted once Brotherhood came out. The tragedy of nina, the impact of Scar, the loss of focus on key components that made the 2003 series so good, were gone. Replaced was a plot that spread itself too thin with the addition of the true intention of Elric Bros father as well as the homonculi "Father" and Ling looking for the Stone. Mustang getting his eyes burned! Arakawa just went nuts towards the end. |
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Fedora-san
 Posts: 464 |
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Just because Mustang didn't become a suicidal hermit doesn't mean it didn't affect him. Depression is not the only way to deal with your troubles. People often say suicide is the cowards way of dealing with your life, so rather than do that he has Ishbal be his prime motivation to become the leader of Amestris and it's what drives his whole journey through the ranks of the military. 03 Mustang gave up on life, Brotherhood Mustang seized it and strove to make it better. Neither is the 'wrong' way to deal with tragedy because there's no right way to handle it. Given Mustang's personality though, I'd say the latter makes more sense for him.
Well that's false, because Brotherhood got a movie and a bunch of OVAs as well. And I doubt you could prove how "most fans" felt about the franchise. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Mustang becoming a hermit in Conqueror of Shamballa, forsaking his rank and working at a remote outpost was the weakest part of that movie. He seemed just fine in the finale of the TV series, being helped to recovery by Riza, and they clearly just did that part of the film so he could have a big "HE'S BACK" moment toward the end.
I think it would have been better if Roy remained a soldier but was going through a phase of feeling unempowered now that the government was no longer military-based, only to realize that even if he can't become Fuhrer, he can still help the people. I mean, what, was he just depressed because Ed wasn't around? I will defend CoS, I even really like that movie, but that Mustang would be suddenly super depressed and become a shut-in because Ed isn't around is kind of... well, it makes you wonder. |
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kanechin
Posts: 447 |
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1. I like the 2003 series more.
2. I like this podcast more than the toonami faithful podcast 3... [Edit]: Removed unnecessay reference to a staff member. Errinundra. |
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Top Gun
 Posts: 4577 |
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I don't have a real opinion on the Winry-vs.-Ed part, but I'm of the firm opinion that shifting that baby story from Rush Valley to Gracia in the flashback was a stroke of adapting genius. It ties the Elrics so much more closely to the Hughes family, to the point where they almost feel like adopted sons, and as a result what happens to Hughes just hits all the harder. Also, the life lesson Ed takes away from it works much better at his younger age in the flashback than it did when he was older. When I was watching Brotherhood for the first time, by the time the baby episode rolled around, I was left thinking, "Okay, that was kind of d'awww, but did it really mean anything?" (Oh jeez...now I'm remembering the very end of episode 25 in the 2003 series, where Ed gets that glimpse of Hughes standing on the train platform.  )
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SpeedyDonut
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If there's any manga I would like to see get a 2nd shot of a anime adaptation it would be Gunsmith Cats. That ova was fine but I would like see it get get full anime adaptation.
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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This really does emphasize my point that not everything has to revolve around Ed. It sets up Winry becoming an automail mechanic in her own right, and what it means is answered later on in the series where Ed comforts Winry by stating that Winry wasnt meant to take lives but to save them. In FMA 2003 Winry really did come off as a person that was ultimately closer to Sheska than Ed just because most of the best scenes all involved Sheska |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Another reason to love the 2003 series: More Sheska.
But then again, no Olivier Mira Armstrong. |
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Knoepfchen
 Posts: 698 |
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Still have to listen to the discussion, but absolutely agreed to this. The 2003 series also took Edward to darker places than Brotherhood did, if I recall correctly (it's been a while). And it didn't shy away from forcing people to deal with the ugly consequences of their decisions and actions, like literally having to clean up the mess they made (dead bodies included) instead of making things go poof and conveniently disappear. This goes at least for Mustang, Lust, Izumi, and Ed in the first series more than the second, and, of course, the whole idea behind the homunculi and what they embody. Brotherhood, while a lot of fun and very engaging to watch, stayed much cleaner, morally, despite the bits of graphic violence. Unfamiliar with the manga, I was hoping for things to get challenging when Mustang intended to kill Envy and Hawkeye was trying to stop him. All theory, of course, but the 2003 series might have actually given her character the permission to kill Envy for him in order to keep his hands clean enough to be able to become the future leader, taking on the guilt/blame/burden/sin/responsibility/whereeveryoucomingfrom in his place. I would have been quite interested in seeing how their relationship would have developed after something as horrible and tragic as that. But Envy went the poof way and everything stayed PG-13. I have no fond childhood memories or nostalgia for either of the two series, nor could I be called a hardcore fan, but the version I'm recommending to my friends is always the 2003 one, as I find it has more interesting themes and reflections to offer. I'd be on board for a Trigun remake any day. It's been hard to recommend the anime to friends because of the dated visuals, and while it is one of my favorite shows of all time, I would be thrilled to see the very different Maximum part of the manga on the screen. |
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Arsenette
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Loved the episode. Hope there's more of them. I hadn't watched Brotherhood (I only saw the original) and loved hearing the discussion about all the difference between them.
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