Forum - View topicIn Defense of Fullmetal Alchemist 2003
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Silverstorm79
Posts: 2 |
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Er, May I contribute? I disagree on "we get war is hell." The things you listed were examples of war is hell, yes, but not so much on "good people do bad things", like with spoiler[ Mustang shooting Winry's parents, Dr. Marcoh making the stones, and the Special Ops Squad. Yeah...in 03, the child being shot is a cover story. Special Ops; Marta included, a character we know at this point, did it on orders. Hughes technically helped the genocide as well, although much more indirectly, by doing paper work and not speaking out or trying to stop it. ] That's where the moral grey comes from, plus stuff like the more sympathetic views on the homunculi, the heroes doing more questionable things (Killing Greed, Al attacking Wrath, are good examples.), and not many "clear" answers when it comes to philosophy, most notably equivalent exchange, which is sort of tossed in the air. Izumi, Dante and the Elric Brothers views are shown, all of them make sense, but it's sort of left to you to decide what is "right". It also does this with Scar, I think, particularly nearing the end of his story. You see his view, but it isn't clear what is "good". Well, maybe it's clear to you, but the narrative presents it initially as horrible, and killing is still shown as horrible, but it's balanced with Scar's view and the purpose of what he's doing, so it's more morally ambiguous. Also, for the homunculi deaths, I'm fairly sure its also stated that they need red stones to live. Lose the stones after dying too much or the use of alchemy, and your down. It's just that they don't regenerate and are slowed down when around the remains of whoever, making it way easier, which is why most circumstances have their remains around. For Pride, I suppose. But he knew Mustang was likely going to attack him somehow, and if I recall, he told Selim to go outside and Selim disobeyed and tried to help. I think he told Selim to take the skull as well? My memory is shaky, I'm sorry. But anyway, I think it's less incompetent than you think. He had no way of knowing Selim would be there, and carrying his weakness, no doubt. |
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Adv193
Posts: 188 |
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Personally even though I like Brotherhood more I still respect the 2003 anime anyhow because it still has it's ups and downs though I think I like the manga most of all as unlike Brotherhood it has no cuts down the storyline and it has a few bits of different storylines that were never in Brotherhood (the ones past the material used for FMA 2003).
Here are a few extra notes 1. FMA 2003 was meant to have their own original ending so it would not overlap with the manga's ending that would take place years later mainly due to the slow release of the manga. Personally Conquer of Shamballa's ending was a little unsatisfying and could have been better. 2. It was because of FMA 2003 that Brotherhood's early episodes had to be heavily edited including shortening the plots and removing a few within the original material to avoid too much repetition with the audience. 3. The part of Mustang burning Bradley (Pride) to death in the final episode of FMA 2003 which is based off how he killed Lust in the manga storyline, did you know that was the latest chapter released in Japan at the time before that final episode originally aired there? |
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Apollo-kun
 Posts: 1213 Location: City 7, Macross 7 |
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I wasn't aware that it even needed to be defended. As far as I knew, many critics (myself included) regarded it as somewhat of a modern classic. The only people I knew of complaining were sticklers for manga canon.
Of course, I love the source material and know that this series deviates heavily from it at around the halfway point, but it's still a fantastic series that does so, so much right. It has its own ambitious artistic and moral direction that's very distinctive and memorable and better than 80% of what was on air at that point. It's one of my favorite shows, and personally, I feel like it has more drive and artistic ambition than Brotherhood. |
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CCTakato
Posts: 514 |
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Speaking of Vic Mignonga, it's interesting he said in an recent interview he gave with the IGN Anime Club podcast that he actually prefers the original FMA over Brotherhood himself.
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SquadmemberRitsu
 Posts: 1391 |
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I have my preferences but I don't want to start a fight about it. I like 2003 more but what made the show work was what it did different to Brotherhood rather than how well it did the same things in comparison to Brotherhood. You could probably make comparisons between the first half of the original series and the first 13 or so episodes of Brotherhood (If you ask me, it's 2003 hands down) but beyond that point they're two completely different shows. I'm also glad that this article focused more on what 2003 did right rather than what one show did better than the other. |
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CCTakato
Posts: 514 |
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If I had one major complaint about the original FMA, I didn't like that they randomly decided to make Barry the Chopper a crossdresser in his first appearance. It seemed to be playing off out-dated homophobic and transphobic stereotypes of crossdressers being immoral and twisted and a dangerous threat to cisgender people. It just seemed like an unnecessary change that was only added for the sake of shock value.
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Videogamep
 Posts: 564 Location: CA |
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I don't think that was the point at all. The crossdressing was only a disguise so he could get around more easily and gather information on the investigation without being suspected, not something he did for pleasure. |
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2430 Location: Germany |
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I wonder how FMA 03 will work going forward or even now as the gecko ending suddenly turns into a post 9/11 narrative (Gundam 00 also did that but from the get go). It is thus already dated even if i disregard the weakening narrative. The manga and re-adaption though are timeless.
I actually saw the first anime twice and i only started to turn against the later original elements then as i noticed how the overly angsty tone just didn't match the firts 2/3´s of "set-up" and it became apparent that none of the character arcs quite made sense. Al became a bland clone of Ed, the original homunculi are a good idea but aren´t build up, Skar´s death and the one dimensional war are a joke, "our" Ed´s death is glossed over and all the female characters became plot point only. No thank you to all of that and the best parts of the manga aren´t the first 7 volumes on top. I can live with Conqueror of Shamballa though as it tells a compete and interesting story even it it is a giant non-ending and barely connects to the show. Changed adaptations as Kurenai, Trigun or X that improved on the source material do exist and they even have my permission to replace it but FMA 03 ain´t it. The show is worth it but i view it as a fun creative failure that should be sampled last and i blame it all on Shō Aikawa. He could never write and everyone else brought their A game. The 4:3 format will hurt it too but that was unavoidable. Will the first HxH be "defended" next as i view it as a slightly better adaptation. |
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CCTakato
Posts: 514 |
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checarlos87
 Posts: 31 |
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Meh. I never really liked FMA 2003, and haven't watched Brotherhood. I feel FMA 03 relies too heavily in shock drama and in creating the most forced heartwrenching scenes possible. The drama is so intense it just makes everything feel terribly fabricated to me.
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residentgrigo
Posts: 2430 Location: Germany |
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I forgot to mention that 03 lacks all sorts of later introduced lore that fleshed out a lot of characters (including Hawkeye) without feeling like retcons (!) and it has one of my favorite ending ever. There aren´t a lot of long form youth manga that get better over time after an already impressive opening but FMA was it. I wonder if Hiromu Arakawa can ever top herself and the Tezuka is well deserved. 03´s take on Barry is fine with me and reminded me of Monster.
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SailorTralfamadore
 Posts: 499 Location: Keep Austin Weeb |
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This is a better idea if you're committed to watching Brotherhood. 03 follows the same basic events for the first 25 or so episodes, but there are enough small changes that someone who's new to it would be horribly confused if they switched at that point. For example, spoiler[Sloth] already shows up looking like spoiler[Trisha Elric] and plays a role in spoiler[Hughes's death], and it's already hinted that homunculi are the result of spoiler[failed human transmutations]. Then, spoiler[Sloth] isn't there at all when they switch to Brotherhood, until showing up at Briggs as a completely different character. And homunculi have a completely different origin story. Also, spoiler[Hughes] uncovers the plot behind everything before spoiler[his death], but it's different in each version of FMA. Any newbie would be confused. This advice gets repeated so much, but I completely agree with you it doesn't make sense (if for different reasons perhaps). I figure people who repeat it haven't seen one or the other in a while. Pick a version of the story to experience first -- 2003 or Brotherhood/manga -- and stick to that. Don't mix and match if you're new.
I completely agree with you there. The story's still in the middle, but I can't imagine how the pay-off requires that much obsessive detail about the Greyjoys or whatever. Dude really needs a meaner editor. 
Also, I wanted to say I appreciate what you said about the Kimblee chimeras. I still don't really like those characters, but your explanation makes sense and now I get their place in the story better. Thanks! |
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Hyro_10
 Posts: 80 |
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@ Maidenoftheredhand if one had to be defended I would say it would be the 2003 version. The fact that it's an adaption that deviates from its source material already puts it at a disadvantage. Although it's all been anecdotal so far i'm one of the persons who've seen the 2003 version get dismissed for no other reason than it being unfaithful.
I mean there is a comment here that said it has no right to exist (lol). I've never been able to understand the hate towards adaptions that don't follow the source to a T. I'd love to see Ann do a piece on adaptions vs source material (thinking about it, I'm sure they might have in the past). It's a pity I didn't get to join earlier as I feel everything has been said from both sides already. Personally I think the original is far superior, I couldn't even finish brotherhood, It was just too boring. Much like it's art style, brotherhood just felt like a washed out version of the 2003 anime. |
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CCTakato
Posts: 514 |
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I just don't understand when it became cool to start bashing the 03 FMA. I remember before Brotherhood was made, even though most fans seemed to prefer the manga over the anime, most fans seem to accept that it was perfectly ok for the original anime to be different from the source material but still be a perfectly legit adaptation to enjoy, and I remember for years, anime fans universally praised the 03 FMA as the greatest thing since sliced bread. But then Brotherhood comes out and suddenly all that praise vanishes and suddenly everyone starts hating it just for being different from the manga and I just don't know why multiple versions of the story can't co-exist. For example, even though the Tenchi Muyo OVAs are by far the most popular incarnation of the Tenchi franchise, most fans don't seem to have a problem with accepting different AUs and spin-offs of Tenchi also exist. And expect for maybe the infamous In Tokyo series, even back during the height of Tenchi Muyo's popularity, I don't remember the debates over the different Tenchi canons being as heated as the debate over the different versions of FMA. It's also interesting to compare FMA fandom to Sailor Moon fandom. In the case of Sailor Moon, even though the manga is the most popular version of the story, it seems like the most popular adaptations of Sailor Moon are the ones that take the most liberties with the source material, like the original anime and the live action TV show, whereas most fans seem more critical of a more literal adaptation like Crystal.
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Maidenoftheredhand
 Posts: 2633 |
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I am not surprised you think only the 2003 needs to be defended since you admitted yourself that is the version you prefer. When we are closer to something, criticism hits us harder. As someone who likes the manga more I've seen plenty of unfair criticism leveled at it as well. But I've already accepted that there is never going to be a consensus on what the better version is. Personally I think people should experience both (and read the manga) and decide for themselves. In the end both versions of FMA are well loved even if it is by different fans. Lol Also CCTakao Winry does not just wait for Ed in Brotherhood either. She trains in Rush Valley to become a better auto-mechanic not just for Ed but she gains a lot of customers who she cares about. She also has a whole arc involving Scar and is certainly instrumental in making him change his direction based on her actions. Also crying and showing anger when you think someone you care about is shot is a human response. But yes Riza is not made of steel. As for Rose yes her part is smaller in Brotherhood/the Manga but we can see how she has grown and is moving forward from when we first meet her. |
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