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MarshalBanana
Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5344
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:14 am
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Godmatsu was really good, the mahjong was a bit dull.
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John Thacker
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 1006
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:25 pm
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Quote: | Throughout the match, viewers are shown each of the Matsuno's individual play-styles, which range from the wildly impractical (Todomatsu) to the downright confusing (Karamatsu, who also serves as this segment's narrator) |
Karamatsu's play-style wasn't "downright confusing." Mahjong is all about the scoring (and betting). While you want to go out by forming various rummy-like hands, certain hands are worth more than others. Generally the high scoring ones are extremely improbable. In Japanese mahjong there's a scoring limit for hands, yakuman, and that term is also used to refer to hands that score that maximum limit. Karamatsu's play-style is to try to play for only yakuman maximum scoring hands, and not try to win or go out with easier hands. (Imagine say someone who always tries to shoot the moon in hearts.) This results in him waiting around forever and always losing, since someone will of course win long before he manages to achieve a ridiculous hand.
It fits with his character, because he's going for the most outrageous and cool scoring hands, even though it turns out painfully bad for him since it's unrealistic.
From what I recall of the strategies shown:
Osomatsu-kun: Declare "riichi" at every opportunity, which declares to everyone that you're one tile away from a winning hand. (I believe it's a Japanese-specific rule.) It also prevents you from rearranging your hand for the most part except trying to draw those one or two tiles you need to win. You end up raising your bet by doing so, so if you declare "riichi" and someone else goes out first, you lose more. That's what happens to him, of course. Arrogant but losing.
Todomatsu-kun: I believe his strategy was to grab lots of tiles discarded by other people and makes matches (runs or melds) placed face up. This enables you to go out quickly, but winning in this way results in very minimally scoring hands. Safe but little gain.
Choromatsu-kun: Makes good logical plays and the "best" mathematical strategy at any point, but as a result is way too predictable, so everyone knows what tiles he's waiting on to win, and avoids discarding them to him, so he never wins. Too logical and straightforward for his own good.
Jyushimatsu-kun: Plays unpredictably. So unpredictably, that he's commonly in a position of having previously discarded a tile that if he had held onto it, he would have won (furiten.) So unpredictability that goes into stupidity.
Ichimatsu-kun: Bad player, gets angry and flips the table.
Last edited by John Thacker on Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rederoin
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1427
Location: Europa
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:32 pm
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John Thacker wrote: |
Quote: | Throughout the match, viewers are shown each of the Matsuno's individual play-styles, which range from the wildly impractical (Todomatsu) to the downright confusing (Karamatsu, who also serves as this segment's narrator) |
Karamatsu's play-style wasn't "downright confusing." Mahjong is all about the scoring (and betting). While you want to go out by forming various rummy-like hands, certain hands are worth more than others. Generally the high scoring ones are extremely improbable. In Japanese mahjong there's a scoring limit for hands, yakuman, and that term is also used to refer to hands that score that maximum limit. Karamatsu's play-style is to try to play for only yakuman maximum scoring hands, and not try to win or go out with easier hands. (Imagine say someone who always tries to shoot the moon in hearts.) This results in him waiting around forever and always losing, since someone will of course win long before he manages to achieve a ridiculous hand.
It fits with his character, because he's going for the most outrageous and cool scoring hands, even though it turns out painfully bad for him since it's unrealistic. |
Depends on the rules, sometimes games are played with double-triple-and higher(7x yakuman is the highest achievable, I think?), such as in the Ten/Akagi manga. But the tournament in Saki disallows double-yakumans.
And then ofcourse you have Legend of Koizumi which plays without a score limit altogether in the Putin vs Koizumi game. But thats a very impractical rule.
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John Thacker
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 1006
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:37 pm
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Rederoin wrote: | Depends on the rules, sometimes games are played with double-triple-and higher(7x yakuman is the highest achievable, I think?), such as in the Ten/Akagi manga. But the tournament in Saki disallows double-yakumans.
And then of course you have Legend of Koizumi which plays without a score limit altogether in the Putin vs Koizumi game. But thats a very impractical rule. |
Yes, certainly you're right. I'm not an expert. The basic point is that each character's play-style was reflective of their personality as shown in the other episodes. Viewers have to be somewhat familiar with mahjong to get the jokes.
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JaggedAuthor
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Posts: 981
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:54 pm
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I'm not sure the reviewer's point was that Karamatsu's approach to the game was inconsistent with his personality. My takeaway was that his play-style was confusing in a general sense, regardless of whether or not it suited his character.
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John Thacker
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:37 pm
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JaggedAuthor wrote: | I'm not sure the reviewer's point was that Karamatsu's approach to the game was inconsistent with his personality. My takeaway was that his play-style was confusing in a general sense, regardless of whether or not it suited his character. |
Hmm, perhaps. Certainly confusing if you're not familiar with mahjong (especially Japanese rules and scoring), but if you are, it's pretty simple. It's certainly a case where a lot of the audience will be confused, especially non-Japanese.
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Rederoin
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1427
Location: Europa
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:07 pm
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John Thacker wrote: |
Rederoin wrote: | Depends on the rules, sometimes games are played with double-triple-and higher(7x yakuman is the highest achievable, I think?), such as in the Ten/Akagi manga. But the tournament in Saki disallows double-yakumans.
And then of course you have Legend of Koizumi which plays without a score limit altogether in the Putin vs Koizumi game. But thats a very impractical rule. |
Yes, certainly you're right. I'm not an expert. The basic point is that each character's play-style was reflective of their personality as shown in the other episodes. Viewers have to be somewhat familiar with mahjong to get the jokes. |
I agree. Just felt like making it clear, I play too much mah jong lol.
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RestLessone
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
Posts: 1426
Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:06 pm
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Episode 21
I have a limited familiarity with mahjong, but I think the writers did a good enough job at getting the emotion and meaning across. Karamatsu's narration helped. Gotta say, I hate when people lose investment in a game or activity and start screwing around. It's especially annoying when you're winning. I feel ya, Osomatsu.
I really liked the Godmatsu sketch. It's great how episodes range from heartfelt bonding to murder plots. A real reminder that the Matsu bros are all terrible people. In any case, they still stick together. On a tangential note, I wonder who the "friends" the brothers sans Ichimatsu are purported to have are. Outside of Todomatsu's dates and going to Chibita's oden stand, do they really hang out with anyone besides each other?
Next episode could be wonky~ Looking forward to it.
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Rederoin
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1427
Location: Europa
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:23 pm
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With the 50.000 bonus rounds, I wonder how long they played mahjong.
Because that is one hell of a marathon.
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irfanf
Joined: 14 Aug 2015
Posts: 22
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:41 am
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i laughed SO HARD when Choromatsu used a pen on the mahjong tiles
Also, Jyushimatsu was surprisingly kinda calm at the beginning on the Mahjong part
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RestLessone
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
Posts: 1426
Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:15 pm
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Episode 22
Surprised they brought back that Dayon-Iyami gag from--how many episodes ago? It seemed like a one off thing, but I like when creators keep those little details. Overall, fun episode. Iyami (and Chibita) seems to be the most versatile of the side characters.
I'm curious to see how the season will end. Even largely episodic comedies can turn serious. The writers have handled serious episodes well in the past--namely, by not totally removing the humor--so it's not worrisome. Serious final eps can also add a punch to the finale, and potentially a segue to a new season. Whether it's kept comedic or not, though, I have to imagine the Osomatsu team has something exuberant planned.
Side tangent: I wonder if those scruffier (old? stranded island?) versions will be integrated eventually. The first PV had Todomatsu looking like that. I assumed it was all early animation or from scrapped storylines, since that PV's content was never included in any episode to date. Plus some designs were slightly different (ex, Osomatsu having no ahoge/cowlicks). It's just been niggling at the back of my mind for a bit, since they were in the OP and the series is winding to a close.
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JaggedAuthor
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Posts: 981
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:30 pm
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I wouldn't be surprised if they worked in another serious story before the finale, but at the moment, my money's on the last episode being something akin to the series premiere or the battle-race episode. However, given how consistently unpredictable this series has been, I'm probably way off-base.
ALSO: Chill, Iyami. Bankbooks and insurance cards are very replaceable.
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RestLessone
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
Posts: 1426
Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:28 pm
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JaggedAuthor wrote: | I wouldn't be surprised if they worked in another serious story before the finale, but at the moment, my money's on the last episode being something akin to the series premiere or the battle-race episode. However, given how consistently unpredictable this series has been, I'm probably way off-base. |
Nah, I'm with you: I think a full-length wacky episode is more likely. Maybe involving the multiple universes or something. It's possible they have been dropping hints about how the series will culminate, too. With this series, it'd be difficult to tell if something is a joke or foreshadowing. (Say...like Dayon's looming presence in the OPs.)
It also might depend on a potential second season. If they originally planned this to be a single season, the end might feel more definitive. If they rushed to rework it after the series' success, it might be more open-ended. Sometimes series, even episodic stuff, ends with the introduction of a new conflict for the next season's opener to resolve. Not sure how likely that is here, though, since they haven't done it before.
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Chrysostomus
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 335
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:04 am
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Quote: | However, the idea that a pretty face is all Iyami needs (after being kidnapped no less) to agree to enter the tournament is a tired trope, especially when he assumes she'll be his “reward” if he wins. |
If the reviewer is going to cherry-pick tired tropes, I hope she would point out that the borderline-racist Chinese martial-arts-land is also a very cliched trope.
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MarshalBanana
Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5344
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:35 pm
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JaggedAuthor wrote: | I wouldn't be surprised if they worked in another serious story before the finale, but at the moment, my money's on the last episode being something akin to the series premiere or the battle-race episode. However, given how consistently unpredictable this series has been, I'm probably way off-base. |
I don't recall this ever having a "serious" story, are you thinking more of having a full length episode, as opposed to splitting it into sections, like they did with Iyami's Counterttack.
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