Forum - View topicThe List - 7 Brother-Sister Romances That Went Too Far
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Agent355
Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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I don't want to get into religious debates here, but the story of Lot was definitely not presented in a positive light, as far as I can remember.
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fencer_x
Posts: 278 |
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IMHO the Crispino twins from Yuri!!! on Ice may give this list a run for its money, though to be fair, Michele is the only one who seems to have a boner for his sister, while Sara wants more space and to be free to see whoever she likes without her overprotective brother scaring suitors off.
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jr240483
Posts: 4382 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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that there is incorrect. its not mainstream. its actually become quite rare for this genre now. the latest series were infected wixoss, spread wixoss and hand shakers. every other sibling based series whether its ero (oni chichi) or non ero (eromanga sensei ) have them as non blood related or as cousins. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18214 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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In my case, simple gut reaction. I have two younger full-blood-related sisters who were raised in the same household as me, and to my best recollection I've never - not even in the prime of my horniest teen years - felt the slightest bit of sexual interest in either of them. In fact, the very thought of it is repugnant to me, and I project that onto incestuous relationships elsewhere. Frankly, I don't see why this kind of reaction is so hard to understand for avid incest advocates like you. No, it's not based on reason at all, although there is established psychological research which supports why that develops. So let's just drop this angle, okay? Nothing that you or others say is going to change my mind on this, so think whatever you like about me for not seeing it as a cool thing. I will not engage further on this line of discussion. Now, that doesn't mean that I won't tolerate stories with incest if they're done well enough, like Koi Kaze. (Simoun is another case where an incestuous relationship is handled well, although it's also a relatively minor plot point that isn't dwelt on much.) However, I don't tolerate it when it's just used as a tease or cheap tactic. Oreimo kinda did that, though my issue with that series was at least as much how the two spoiler[deliberately went around ruining their relationships with just about everyone just so they could play like they were a couple]. It was stupid. |
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Slashman
Posts: 253 |
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spoiler[ Kirino had formed an unrealistically lofty vision of her brother at a young age that saw him as a kind of superhero in her eyes. He was someone who could do anything because she was young and smaller and didn't really know any better. Kyosuke's childhood friend Manami kind of gets in the way of all this by butting heads with Kirino and telling her that she and Kyosuke cannot be together or get get married. Kirino gets even more stubborn about her feelings and especially hostile toward Manami. But eventually she gets cold toward her brother who she starts to see as more ordinary afterall due to Manami's influence. So the two of them drift apart and don't speak until the events of the first season. Manami is herself in love with Kyosuke and actually does some rather underhanded things to interfere with his relationship prospects. Kyosuke doesn't share her feelings. Kirino likes eroge based on bro-sis relationships but loves magical girl stuff just as much if not more. Kyosuke discovering this is what eventually makes them start talking again. ] That's pretty much what the deal is from what I recall. |
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zarzam
Posts: 19 |
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I agree with you completely, but Lot's daughters drunk-raping him, and not being punished for it, was quite a strong statement. Especially when they just fled from a city that was destroyed due to the perversions of their citizens. |
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Hellsoldier
Posts: 761 Location: Porto,Portugal,Europe,Earth,Sol |
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Look, lets even imagine for one second that only 2.000 such pairings or less exist around the world. Hell, throughout history even... If they are the niche mentioned above, and strictly the niche, nothing more than that niche, then they don't deserve the same treatment as abusive relationships. Their small number is no excuse. I couldn't care less. And yes, the Harm principle and the burden of proof are basic tenets of the Liberal Democracy. Meaning, unless its a self-evident case, the burden of proof lies in the accuser (lets imagine, you) who has to prove that there was abuse. If there was abuse, your view is correct. If there wasn't, though, then what? Mind you, I think of this as a delicate topic, not a clear-cut easy topic (unlike, say, being LGBT, which is 100% A-okay, awesome, harmless, and that's a no-brainer, no matter what religion or tradition have to say). But because I view it as a complex issue, I don't accept absolutist answers, not without deep thought to it, at least.
There's more where that came from. Also, I don't take the Bible as a moral guide. I prefer to be humane.
At least on my side, I apologize. I should clarify what I meant with all of this. I am not saying that people should be confortable with it. I am saying that consented acts between people of an apropriate age should be legal, and to put ourselves in others' shoes. I don't even see my cousin, whom I spent part of my childhood with, that way. So its A-Okay to have that gut reaction. Its not Okay to view all people in that circumstance as bad people. I guess that's it. I am more okay with it, and you are not. Now to keep it all on the topic of anime, I am still on episode 2 of Simoun, and I still feel rather cold about it. I love complex and layered work, so I have to ask: How long until I feel more excited about Simoun, in your opinion? Also I've been postponing Key the Metal Idol for a while. I love Serial Experiments Lain, and such. So is it a good match for me? I'd like your thoughts. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18214 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Simoun is a very slow starter. The scene in ep 2 (I think?) where the main girl escorts her friend to The Spring gives the first taste of what the series can do, and there's a sequence in ep 3 or 4 (forget which) where a couple of the priestesses encounter a soldier from one of the kingdoms trying to attack them that, IMO, is quite loaded with deeper implications. I didn't fully warm to the series myself until episode 6, which I think is the turning point (it's where Sybilla Aurea finally climbs out of her funk), and found it consistently great from that point out. Its last 3-4 episodes I'd stack up against just about any anime series ever made in terms of quality. However, this is not by any means a fast-moving series. It's a work of elegance, grace, and multilayered meaning, one which says a lot but rarely says it bluntly. The one incest element in it doesn't come up until past the halfway point IIRC, and again, its mostly contained within one episode even though its impact can be seen well before that point if you watch the series a second time and know what to look for. And big trivia point: it's a series where all the male roles - even the adult ones! - are voiced by female seiyuu, and that was done intentionally.
I'd suggest reading my relatively recent review on it. There's really nothing else like Lain out there, and the same can be said for Key. |
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CrimsonDX
Posts: 171 |
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Incest is wincest though, so these endings were just fine
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Jonny Mendes
Posts: 997 Location: Europe |
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Thank you Key. This is probably the best phrase i read, that describe my feelings of Simoun. Not only that, but also the characters and the World Construction and also the art, all this make me fell like Simoun is poetry. |
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Hellsoldier
Posts: 761 Location: Porto,Portugal,Europe,Earth,Sol |
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I don't mind slow burners, and from your words, it shouldn't take long for me to warm up to the show. I prefer slow-burns over neck-breaking pace. I find the seiyuu detail interesting. I guess one of the main themes of the show is gender identity, right off from the start (which reminds me I need to watch Hourou Musuko/Wandering Son). By your words, I'll soon have to put Simoun next to Utena, Cowboy Bebop, et al, as one of my favorites. I think I read that same review on Key. But I'll check again. I have Key in the backpack for a few years now. Thank you for your advice and information. |
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Agent355
Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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Are people so ignorant about child sexual abuse that they don't realize that real-life incest almost always falls into that category, or does otaku wish fulfillment "incest" stories that don't reflect reality in the slightest really make people think incest is usually between two consenting emotionally mature people in real life? I have much more sympathy for the "don't confuse fantasy with reality" argument than the "it's not that bad, even in real life" argument. Read a book about child abuse survivors and the long term affects of severe trauma before making that claim. It's an impossible to prove devil's advocate argument that any kind of real life incest is based on a healthy relationship, when there is so much evidence to the contrary.
(I personally recommend Judith Herman's Trauma and Recovery, which is often used as a psychology textbook and draws parallels between all different types of trauma, as a starting point on the topic of trauma in general.) |
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Kadmos1
Posts: 13566 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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Another anime that skirts around the incest taboo is "World Break". Satsuki lusts after the lead guy Moreha but those too were romantic siblings in a past life.
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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I see so as long as procreation doesn't come into play incest is all good and dandy eh ? Sisters banging brothers, sons banging mothers, daughters banging fathers. What a happy world. People who accept and condone incest wether it's real or fiction are sick. |
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Hellsoldier
Posts: 761 Location: Porto,Portugal,Europe,Earth,Sol |
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In all of the thread I don't remember reading anyone saying ''most incest is consensual''. So, back to the point please, since I was only talking about consenting adults. This is kinda non-sequitur. (Though I guess I have a new book to check out). I forgot to state for the record that I find almost all anime on this topic, of flushable quality. To each their, but... |
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