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Scoot Pilgrim Vs. Tokyopop


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Aaron White
Old Regular


Joined: 23 Aug 2002
Posts: 1365
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:11 pm Reply with quote
Here is Bryan Lee ((Scott Pilgrim) O'Malley's brutal take on Tokyopop's new Manga Pilot contract. Worth a read before you consider submitting something to Tokyopop.
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Aromatic Grass



Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 2424
Location: Raleigh, NC

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:31 pm Reply with quote
I actually have a friend at Savannah College of Art & Design that was talking to me about this not too long ago. She, of course, has no plans to sign with TP, but she's told me about some friends in the sequential arts program that got screwed over by these people. I've never liked TP and hate giving them money, but unfortunately they have stuff I want to buy (like Aria).
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BellosTheMighty



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 767

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:59 pm Reply with quote
Source or it didn't happen. Yes, I read the .pdf. I question its authenticity. O'Malley himself said that the style is unusually casual, even assuming that TP is dealing with grade schoolers this would never get past legal.

And that's another thing. The writing style implies a low reading level, but why the hell would TP be dealing with grade-schoolers? Even assuming that they have the skills necessary to write, there are child labor laws that are a headache to get through. I had a hell of a time getting hired for anything better then a retail drugstore McJob in high school- as soon as people heard I wasn't 18, they showed me the door because they didn't need the aggravation.

It's my suspicion that O'Malley has been taken in by a hoax. I want to know where this was downloaded from, or how it was otherwise obtained.
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:10 pm Reply with quote
Wow, I have read through some shitty contracts in my life, but that one is right up there in the top ten.

*on a foggy dark street corner*

PSST! Hey you over there. Come here for a minute.

*Looks around, nobody but me here. Walks over to person*

What's up playa, DJ Milky here. I heard ya got a story to tell. And I wanna help you break it out. You'll own da street man.

*I don't know, seems shady*

Nothin to worry bout man, everyone knows me. You and me, we'll enter into a pact, you see. That means we'll be sort of like partners, you see. I wanna help you break out big, you see. But if you don't let me help you with this story, you see, I can't let my peoples makes it big you see. You know everyone knows me man, I know you know that, right?

*nods head*

All right my main man, let me see what you got. Aww, that looks great. Here's my pager number man, if ya really need to talk type in #666, and one of my peeps will get in touch within a month.

*purple limo pulls up*

Alright playa playa, I gots to go. This is going to be great. Now I don't wanna hear about you giving this story to anyone else, ya hear me. I am giving you this chance, don't be a bitch. See ya!

*tires peel off in a cloud of smoke*
*continues to walk down dark street*


Last edited by Dargonxtc on Tue May 27, 2008 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Hon'ya-chan



Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 973

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:17 pm Reply with quote
Wow, I didn't really think that Anime News Nina strip would be dead-on accurate....
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Aromatic Grass



Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 2424
Location: Raleigh, NC

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:21 pm Reply with quote
BellosTheMighty wrote:
Source or it didn't happen. Yes, I read the .pdf. I question its authenticity. O'Malley himself said that the style is unusually casual, even assuming that TP is dealing with grade schoolers this would never get past legal.

It did happen. Though my word isn't really 100% proof, I've already said that I know of people who have tried to work with TP. Like, real students in a sequential arts program.

Also, one of the reasons they're doing this is probably *because* they get tons of crappy work from young kids who think they can draw.
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BellosTheMighty



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 767

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:31 pm Reply with quote
Aromatic Grass wrote:
Though my word isn't really 100% proof, I've already said that I know of people who have tried to work with TP. Like, real students in a sequential arts program.


"It's all true even if it never happened" is a fine technique for literature, but in real life "Frame the Guilty Man" doesn't fly with me. I've done a quick check of the logical-seeming places on their website, and I can't find this document anywhere. I found this, and the format and salient points are different enough that I'm even MORE inclined to call shenanigans. And malicious shenanigans at that- if this is false, it's a lawsuit for libel at the least.
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Aromatic Grass



Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 2424
Location: Raleigh, NC

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:59 pm Reply with quote
BellosTheMighty wrote:
And malicious shenanigans at that- if this is false, it's a lawsuit for libel at the least.

You're very much right -- a heavy one. But I'm still more inclined to believe it (even if it does sound silly) because those people's rights to their work were toyed with.
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Swordfish_II



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 617

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:48 pm Reply with quote
BellosTheMighty wrote:

"It's all true even if it never happened" is a fine technique for literature, but in real life "Frame the Guilty Man" doesn't fly with me. I've done a quick check of the logical-seeming places on their website, and I can't find this document anywhere.


http://www.tokyopop.com/​Manga_Pilots/​gopro/​1543063.​html

Towards the bottom.
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Kagemusha



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:02 pm Reply with quote
Who is this "Scoot" Pilgrim you speak off?

Kidding aside, there's no doubt that Tokyopop's contracts are complete garbage. I find it amazing how people are all over Marvel and DCs' asses over everything they do (not that they don't deserve it most of the time) and yet no one bring up the crap that TP is doing. I believe an artist under contract with them did complain a while back, but I can't remember which one. Unfortunately, TP is the most well-known publisher among the fans who are going to be creating OEL, not to mention the most financially successful, so things probably aren't going to change anytime soon.
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BellosTheMighty



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 767

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:56 pm Reply with quote
Swordfish_II wrote:
BellosTheMighty wrote:

"It's all true even if it never happened" is a fine technique for literature, but in real life "Frame the Guilty Man" doesn't fly with me. I've done a quick check of the logical-seeming places on their website, and I can't find this document anywhere.


http://www.tokyopop.com/​Manga_Pilots/​gopro/​1543063.​html

Towards the bottom.


...

Huh. Looks like I stand corrected.

Wait a minute, you mean someone *else* around here actually bothers to check the facts instead of just spouting what he's read on blogs and made up through leaps of logic?! Sw33t! Anime smile Maybe the average IQ around here is higher than I thought...

Well... given that I now have the choice of continuing to rant in defiance of the evidence myself, or just stepping back with a little humility, I suppose I'll opt for the dignified option. I blame TokyoPop for this misunderstanding- seriously, who issues such an unprofessional-looking document and tries to make it legally binding? I admit I made a screw-up here- I didn't read the document completely before posting on it. I took a brief look at the writing style, and concluded based on it that it HAD to be a hoax. I tried to confirm by looking at the website, but it looks like I was checking the wrong place- for some reason, they put it in the social area of the site, and everything else centered around submissions redirected me to the FAQ page where I found the document above.

But after having read the document in greater detail, putting it up in the PopLife area makes perfect sense. I think people are taking this for something it isn't. If I'm reading this correctly, it isn't intended as a long-term publishing contract for an ongoing series. This is set up to give untested talents experience, exposure, and possibly some credibility. Like making a low-budget indie film to try and get a break in Hollywood. This is a "put your money where your mouth is" kind of idea.
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bahamut623



Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1392

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 12:04 am Reply with quote
I just mentioned on another forum how I keep misspelling it Scoot Pilgrim. Typo Jinx!!!

I can't get over that fact that they would call this a contract. Who puts jokes (LAME jokes) in a "contract"? How could anyone seriously accept this and sign up? Either they aren't reading it fully, or just don't give a damn about their work.
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 12:22 am Reply with quote
BellosTheMighty wrote:
Wait a minute, you mean someone *else* around here actually bothers to check the facts instead of just spouting what he's read on blogs and made up through leaps of logic?! Sw33t! Anime smile Maybe the average IQ around here is higher than I thought...


Actually, the official Tokyopop PDF is linked six lines under the cat hiss picture in the blog. Confused
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BellosTheMighty



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 767

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 2:06 am Reply with quote
Dargonxtc wrote:
BellosTheMighty wrote:
Wait a minute, you mean someone *else* around here actually bothers to check the facts instead of just spouting what he's read on blogs and made up through leaps of logic?! Sw33t! Anime smile Maybe the average IQ around here is higher than I thought...


Actually, the official Tokyopop PDF is linked six lines under the cat hiss picture in the blog. Confused


Yes, I just questioned whether or not it came from TokyoPop itself. I mean, if I knew how to make a pdf files, I could probably whip up a forged legal form in about a day. Probably much less.
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ikillchicken
Space CowboySpace Cowboy


Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7015
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 3:31 am Reply with quote
bahamut623 wrote:
I can't get over that fact that they would call this a contract. Who puts jokes (LAME jokes) in a "contract"? How could anyone seriously accept this and sign up? Either they aren't reading it fully, or just don't give a damn about their work.


It actually makes perfect sense if you have the audacity to do it. The people stupid enough to not recognize how terrible of a deal this is are also stupid enough to be put at ease by lame jokes and "friendly" casual wording whereas a proper contract would make them nervous.

It's basically a ploy to take all the various half baked crap that people try and submit to them and filter it all through a contract that pretty much gives them complete control over it without really having to give the artist anything if they don't want to. This allows them to mine it for anything that might have any potential or merit and steal it. Heck, they may even potentially stumble over something good entirely as is at which point they've already got it locked into a great contract.
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