Forum - View topicREVIEW: Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion DVD 1-2
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krelyan
Posts: 173 Location: Utah |
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Sounds like a perfectly excusable reason to me. My dislike for Lelouch is probably the main beef I have with the show from what I've seen so far (ep 9). I keep getting the feeling that the writers tried to construct a confident, cool, standoff-ish character but nearly all I took from it was he comes across as a bit of a prick; hardly a noir-like, conflicted anti-hero. He, like Light, becomes incredibly unrelatable as he seems to suffer from being a "perfect" character by excelling in just about everything. However, I never got the impression that Death Note wanted its audience to view Light as a sympathetic character, so it didn't really bother me in the way that it has with Code Geass. Also, Zero's schemes so far seem to rely on convenience so much that they often contradict his so-called brilliance that the series seems to so blatantly put out there.
I hate to bring attention to this... but could you possibly use a spoiler tag for this? It doesn't take much common sense to read between the lines there, so thanks buddy. 
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prime_pm
 Posts: 2337 Location: Your Mother's Bedroom |
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Huh. Thought I made it as vague as possible. Sorry.
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babbo
Posts: 274 |
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I questioned his talent/ability not his character <.<
You know, I really, really wish it was that way. But the entire crowd that was watching the game in that scene bought it. Lelouch bought it too. The reason why they all got surprised is because they thought schneizzel was forfeiting the game by allowing lelouch to take is king... By um... Moving his king into check. |
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Haruhiist
Posts: 1 |
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I can't stop thinking about Tachikomas whenever Nunnally talks. |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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I'd say Lelouch does have a few flaws, personal and otherwise, some of which should be apparent but they may become clearer as time goes on. Now that you mention it, being a bit of a prick counts as one of them, I'd say. I wouldn't say he's incredibly deep or too complex as a character, not at all...but I distinctly see him as more of a human being than Light, precisely because there are things that do conflict him every so often. Which is what drew my attention to your post, curiously enough.
Convenience is right, but also some planning, even if it's not always treated appropriately or may not apply. Still, I understand why you would be bothered, since that's definitely a big part of those schemes. I have no problems with that myself, but then again I've gotten used to it, so I try to have a high suspension of disbelief. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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I disagree. Someone can have good range and not be the best actor. Similarly, someone can have poor range in terms of vocal highs and lows and still have the capability of appropriately conveying emotion. They just have to do it differently than a person who does have those abilities. It doesn't make it less effective necessarily. Some could find the extreme highs and lows to be melodramatic (which I know people make the claim Zero needs to be more melodramatic, but I disagree with this). Anyway, I think this whole question comes down to whether you are comfortable with dubs being a different performance from the original Japanese or whether you expect an attempt to emulate Japanese every time. I never have expected this, and so I don't get a sense of disappointment. The biggest reason I don't expect this is that I started out watching dubs (and liked them) instead of the other way around, so I don't carry the expectations here.
"The right kind of attitude" is really another matter of opinion. Sure you could say "the author of the story prefers it in japanese" or somesuch, but as we should all know by now if someone writes a book the readers are going to imagine different things about character mannerisms and tone of voice. This is not a cut and dry matter. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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But you'll find it's different when animation or live action occurs first. It is much harder to reconstruct a personality or a landscape when we have seen it on screen than when we have read it in a book. And besides, we are only talking about the dub here, not a alternative-universe story, a prequel or a sequel. The dub, if it's doing its job, will try to be as faithful to the original material as possible, not only in translation terms, but performance-wise as well. The dub for Code Geass simply fails on the second count. If the main character (among others) is horrible, with a brand new personality (and an inferior one at that), the dub fails. Though it might be acceptable to those who never listened to the original, I find it repulsive and barely tolerable. The fact that Bosch's Lelouch sounds like Ichigo (someone with an almost completely different personality) just confirms it for me that my stance is correct. |
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Top Gun
 Posts: 4577 |
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Lelouch only sounds like Ichigo because JYB's playing both of them and they're both teenage boys. He's been giving Lelouch a harder, arrogant, more self-assured edge that he's never come close to using with Ichigo. And personally, I'd rather have an English voice actor who gives their own performance of how they interpret the character, rather than slavishly trying (and failing) to emulate an actor half a world away speaking a completely different language. Wanting the Japanese and English performances to sound as close to identical as possible would be like expecting every Shakespearean actor who plays Hamlet or Macbeth to portray the character in the same way. That's just not how acting works. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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I just flatly disagree with this set of statements. A dub "doing it's job" does it's best to convey to it's own audience the same story that the Japanese dub conveyed to it's audience. It has absolutely nothing to do with being faithful to the intonation or pitch of the original VA. As far as "personality" goes, I'd disagree that JYB "acts like" Ichigo when he's playing Lelouch. He sounds the same, because that is his voice, but he does not act the same. He may not act like the original guy, but he does act appropriate to the mannerisms/look of the character in my opinion. Maybe you disagree, but that is purely a matter of personal opinion. If the fundamental purpose of a dub is to do it's best to emulate the original, then a dub can never exceed the original. The only way to do this is for an actor to make his own performance that stands on it's merits. I'm not saying JYB has done that here, but he certainly hasn't done a bad job either. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Well, you are entitled to your opinion. Of course, that doesn't make your opinion any less wrong. A dub is not supposed to be so different that the character's personality is changed. Lelouch has gone from a cast-off prince itching for vengeance to some sort of emo wannabe villain. Let's face it: Bosch has too soft a voice to play a rough, gruff "gangster" (which is what Ichigo was shown to be in flashbacks of him), or a bitter ex-Prince of the most powerful nation on Earth. There's no edge and no authority to his voice. Lelouch's big moment in episode one, where he spoiler[commands the soldiers to die,] was shambolic in the dub. It was disgusting, an insult to the character and the show as a whole. Voice Actors are welcome to exceed the original performances. I never claimed that they had to be worse (or no better) than the Seiyuu. All I said was that the VAs had to be faithful. Now, there may be times where the original performances were bad, and the dub decides to forge its own route. That's acceptable, and even commendable. But when you are talking about an above-par performance from Fukuyama whose character gets slaughtered by a miscast Voice Actor unable to vary his performances, that's what gets me so infuriated. The fact that A: people are defending this dribble and B: the dub for one of the "hottest" shows around got this inane treatment just confirms for me that the world is one screwed-up place. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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It'd make so much more sense for me to go on and on hating on a performance I actually liked, or to be insulted because one actor isn't quite as good as another...
Considering...
Now lets say that the original isn't "bad" but it's not "as good as it could be." Wouldn't the "forge its own route" be just as plausible then? And once we go the direction of recognizing that the original isn't perfect, it kind of calls into question what we mean when we throw around terms like "faithful." Either by faithful you mean "I expect them to emulate the original VAs performance as closely as humanly possible" or you don't. I'm inclined to believe this is your view, but that even you recognize being faithful isn't always appropriate. But saying it's only appropriate when the original is bad is a real stretch, considering VAs aren't robots designed to imitate other people. I really do think if your standard is such that you expect very close emulation as a rule, that you probably should avoid dubs in general. This was not a bad dub. It might not be a perfect one, but it's miles away from being bad. (Considering that I've hardly been defending the dub as being the most awesome out there, I don't really understand your overreaction). |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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What I'm so angry about, is that this dub was billed as "the who's who of American VA's". And yet, I get dub that does not do the series (and the characters) justice. Speaking of justice, the dub for Death Note was tolerable, but Light's voice was abysmal.
You may not think it matters, but when you are dealing with main characters who are anti-heroes/villains, how they are portrayed makes a huge difference. Originally, Light came across as highly intelligent, arrogant, confident, but also cool. As in, he's the guy the audience wants to be. Brad Swaille's performance made him seem less smart, but more arrogant. He just wasn't cool, but came across as a giant prick. No wonder he got the bad press he did from the dub-watchers. It's the same with Lelouch. Code Geass got unfairly marked down because of Lelouch, but how much of that stems from his awful portrayal in the dub? Those people who dislike him from only watching the dub, who says he's selfish and a psychopath, are missing so much. Not only the commanding delivery, but also Lelouch/Zero's strong sense of justice, and most importantly his totally unselfish love for his sister. They never get to see a whole side of him that isn't a magnificent bastard. Anyway, I'm done with this thread. I can only express my hope that Mister Kimlinger is kept well away from reviewing the rest of this title. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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Ok, you just insulted Brad Swaile as Light and now I know we are hundreds of miles away from each other. I'm not even close to agreeing with you. I really do think you are looking for "dub bots" who have no opinions of their own and only want to emulate the Japanese.
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braves
 Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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Who's to say that your opinion isn't the one that's wrong?
Oh, yeah. He's a truly lovable personspoiler[ who kills his own brother and sacrifices his own allies. ] 
Are you seriously trying to say that if I watched the Japanese version of Death Note first, I would be cheering for Light even though spoiler[he drove his father to his death, killed many innocent people and got rid of his own lover? ] That somehow everything that he's done is somehow "cool"? 
Yes, because hearing different perspectives on a show is so totally wrong. 
Anyways, I agree with this review. The first 8 episodes were a pretty much a "B" for me. Though, it's has gotten better as of late, but I don't think it's a masterpiece as some have described it. |
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teferi
 Posts: 400 |
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No offense to the reviewer, but I agree. After his preview on the second season, this was more or less exactly what I was expecting if he got it.l I agree, it's a B show. He just seems to be writing as if the series is below him or something.
Doesn't anyone love how Machiavellian Lelocuhe is? I mean god, the director set the concept of the series on Lelocuhe (a character for which the ends justify the means) vs Suzaku (goody two-shoes values the process by which things are achieved). It may not make him loveable, but he's pretty easy to like as a character.
She has a line where some kids are beating her and she says something along the lines of "You can beat me, but you'll never hurt my heart!". In the Tachikoma voice. On that note the Audio drama was pretty good in English. Suzaku's English VA managed to sound convincingly gay in "Ticket of Dreams". Too bad he couldn't turn it off in the rest of the eps. "Brown Agony" is probably the best work the English cast did though. Ougi's and Tamaki's VA's nailed the performance, and even JBY was amusing as Zero. If anything it showed that they act well enough ... it just doesn't seem to come together when they throw it in with the animation. Also kind of disappointed to see nothing about how poorly translated the booklets were (pretty sure they came with all the DVDs). It's like Bandai threw the job at some random Japanese guy and told him, "translate it--but don't bother fixing any mistakes." There's a line in a section on Britannian Airplanes that goes: "It was a great aircraft that was steady at sound speed, but the construction of it was canceled when a general asked "where the Knightmare was going to be put?"." (and I got my copy at Best Buy in case anyone thinks it's a bootleg). |
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