Forum - View topicGAME: Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite
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Razor/Edge
Posts: 607 |
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You're getting way too ahead of yourself here. Looking at Metacritic, Infinite is getting the exact same sort of scores as MvC3 did. One review or comment is not a big sample size to doom an entire game series. MvC is still one of the biggest fighting game series around and it's going to go away or "fail" because a few people don't like it compared to 3. It'll be fine. |
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Souther
Posts: 603 |
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(apologies, got your username wrong) It could be one of several things; 1) you're doing the motion too slowly, 2) you're not completing the qcf motion properly, 3) you're pressing the attack button too early or 4), you're pressing the attack button too late. Without your input display, it's difficult to point out exactly where the issue is.
I'd also be interested to know what your team was in UMVC3. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Interesting. I figured there had to be many reasons. I primarily used Random, Random, and Random. This is what I do for all video games I play where I'm given a choice of characters, civilizations, vehicles, weapons, etc. I know this is not the optimum way to do things, but I get bored easily if I have to main something. That's why I said that if it's something required to be decent at the game, then it won't be for me. I can only hear the same voice clips, sound effects, and music for so long before it drives me crazy. (I've played many other games at an above-average to expert level without a main, which is why I find it curious that 2-D fighting games alone are a brick wall, barring Smash Bros., a series I CAN play at an above-average level without a main.) |
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EnigmaticSky
Posts: 750 |
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I really feel like people waaaay overemphasize the difference between "core" and "casual" gamers, especially in regards to fighting games. I mean both are just people playing a videogame at the end of the day, and both start off bad and eventually get better, one will just play it more and possibly try to enter some tournaments. Saying things like "SFV is good if you're a core fighting game fan, only the gameplay matters" infuriates me because it acts like if you don't like it you're not a "true" fan and deflects all criticisms, even though I thing SFV's gameplay is incredibly bare and lacks a compelling reason to not just play SFIV instead. Same goes for MvC:I; why is this better than UMvC3?
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Zerreth
Posts: 207 Location: E6 |
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I'm going to go on a limb and say it's probably a better idea to play a different fighting game. Admittedly I haven't checked out Infinite yet, but outside of SFV, my experience with Capcom has been that their character balancing is skewed and all over the place, the primary issue being with HP values showing an incredibly high variance across the roster combined with equally high damage variance to "even out" the weaker but speedier characters. It might be my bias speaking but it usually feels like the performance between each tier (historically) is so massive to the point where if you pick B tiers or below, you find yourself working far too hard to match the minimal effort of learning the BnBs of an A Tier and rolling fights. The tradeoff is that other games don't quite have the large playerbase that a capcom game pulls in. Also, at some point you'd probably have to learn the Raging Storm pretzel twist.... Edit: I realized how off topic I went. The reason I say pick a different game is because there are many other games in which the effort-level to achieve the same kind of damage/effect/steamroll between a B Tier and an S tier is significantly narrower than in many of Capcom's games. |
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Souther
Posts: 603 |
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Long post coming up.
Yeah, I think you're personally better off just gathering a bunch of mates and playing offline. If you want to stand a chance against other players online at fighting games in general, not just 2-D fighting games, at the very least, you're going to have to stick with a character and become knowledgeable about the mechanics of the game. Even before, that, you have to learn how to execute basic things like special moves. Smash's execution, at a basic level, is far more accommodating than games like, say, Marvel and I guess that's why you're able to at least feel competitive (and even then, Smash is difficult to play at a proper competitive level). There are also things in 2-D fighting games that aren't present in Smash that you have to be aware of. I suppose I'll throw in what I think about this whole idea about "casual" and "hardcore" players. People who aren't serious about fighting games at least want to feel competitive (even if they aren't) and have some fun. Including a bunch of fun offline modes/single-player content for them to play and slowly get accustomed to the game's mechanics could help. Maybe in some manner, they can weave tutorials/objectives into this single-player content that teaches players as they go along. You don't really have to create an expensive story mode either, stuff like Dramatic Battle or World Tour (Alpha 3), things like Tekken 3's many modes, Quest Mode (Virtua Fighter 4/5) or the Krypt or Planets and gear collection (MK9 and Injustice 2 respectively) will do. Then, if they're feeling good, they can try online. Even if they get mollywhopped, they've got something else to come back to. But what happens is, there's only arcade/story mode to do(or mission combos that aren't useful or way too hard for the average player to complete), and after completing that, most players just hop on online without really learning anything, get killed by better players and drop the game. On the other hand, while there are a number of ways companies could give the starting player a headstart, there's only so much they can do to help people improve further in fighting games. Ultimately, it's in the player's hands to acquire the mentality and the desire to improve and gain knowledge in fighting games. That will mean going to outside resources like sites/forums or joining online/local communities for information/mentors/sparring partners, looking up videos, articles, etc., there's a lot to learn (which is why IMO it's imperative for communities, online and off, to provide a good atmosphere to play and learn). And as EnigmaticSky suggested, if you don't find a game fun, all the tutorials in the world are unlikely to help.
In Capcom's case, in my experience, I think it's more varied than given credit for, especially in newer titles like SFIV and V. EDIT: Lol, missed out the title I was contrasting Smash's execution to. Last edited by Souther on Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Naotomato
Posts: 67 |
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This means you have not mastered the fundamentals yet. Go to training mode in any air fighter or 2D fighter that is NOT Tekken or SC. Turn on annotations (which most fighting games have.) Look at them after you preform a move. Example: Try to do 41236 and whatever kick/punch/etc. Do it slowly on your d pad or stick. Look at your hands moving not the screen. After you finish doing the motion look at the screen. If the annotation isn't showing right that means you are doing it wrong. When the annotation shows it correctly by the textbook do it faster. Keep on practicing. Until you master this you can't possible master how to play online or in real time battles. You can play fighting games casually but if you don't want to do the above or can't (or anything similar,) then fighting games may not be for you (online and real time gameplay with a human opponent.)
Don't use tournament gameplay until you master the fundamentals. Use tutorial nico nico videos or YT videos that have move annotations. If you are playing something like UNIB, then look at the tutorial videos. Most tournament players practice around six hours a day and it's harder to read combos if you don't know or grasp the fundamentals.
I'm not sure what advice to give on this. Unless you are a jack of all trades, there's no way that you can use and master every single character in a fighting game in advance play. Not even pros can. Each character in a game has different methods of playing and variety. So if you use someone like say, Bedman from Guilty Gear, he would not play the same as someone like I-no or Jack-o. There's too many gameplay options, motions, etc. for the average person. That's not including memorizing frame rate data. That's why I (and some other people) suggest the whole get 2 mains at the least and a sub. This way you can cover a variety of gameplay styles and methods of attack. Sure tiers kind of matter but it all boils down to gameplay and how trained you are with said character. Even bottom tier characters can beat top tier characters if you are good enough and know how to counter them. Good luck. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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I am what Mark Rosewater would refer to as an "Uber-Johnny," at least when I've achieved a proficient skill level in a game: I'm the sort of person who wants to prove conventional wisdom wrong, to be the first to demonstrate what people say is a bad idea is not. As a result, in a game with tiers, I tend towards lower to bottom tiers or any choice that is commonly maligned by its players. This is especially so in Pokémon: I play in competitions mostly with Pokémon from NU or below (though I did get caught by surprise when I tried myself at the VGCs this year and learned it was best 2 out of 3--I'm used to best 1 out of 1 and found myself with a string of win-lose-lose matches). Of course, Pokémon is the sort of game where you can be good at it simply by doing enough research, due to its nature as a turn-based game.
Extra Credits brought that up in one of their videos, "The Fighting Game Problem," in which they point out that 2-D fighting games, uniquely among video game genres, provide everything for you right from the start, and this is the biggest hindrance to them becoming more popular as the learning curve for them is nearly vertical. They propose a possible solution being robust single-player modes and/or unlocking of moves and abilities to allow the player to get accustomed to something before moving onto the next thing. Playing locally is not an option though, as I don't know enough people who play video games (not counting mobile games) to be willing to play with me. We're talking mostly people who don't know how to hold a Wii Remote here.
Yeah, it's why I decided that this game, and possibly the entire genre of 2-D fighting games, are not for me. I am the exact opposite kind of player that these games are aimed at. If I cannot have fun playing a game, then what's the point of playing it? (Unless you mean to pick a character or two and then branch out slowly later on until it covers the entire roster.) Sorry, I've decided I won't be playing this game, and I probably won't be playing any 2-D fighting games, not counting Smash Bros., in the foreseeable future. I mentioned I watch tournament footage because I absolutely cannot stand watching most individual players' videos. Predominantly, they'll have a main or two, and it just gets so BORING after a few videos. They ignore all my requests for specific characters too (though I kind of expect that). I don't think I'm at the level of competency to really be able to watch people's videos and analyze them to improve myself though. (I ought to mention that playing against the same person with a clearly established main for too long, regardless of the kind of game it is, also will eventually bore me.) |
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Naotomato
Posts: 67 |
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@leafy sea dragon: At least you figured out what you want to do without anyone pressuring you. Your fun comes first to things like this.
If you need any advice just ask. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Thanks for the help anyway, and I'm glad you're okay with it even if it turns out 2-D fighting games aren't for me. I'll continue to watch videos, as I really like to see these games in action, but I'll simply be a spectator from here on out. |
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