Forum - View topicFullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood -[adult swim] (w/index).
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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Since Hulk Cornello did not go to the gate and see the truth than no I don't think it counts as a human transmutation. It was simply a backlash from the Philosopher's Stone with the last remaining dregs of energy filling Cornello with power. Of course since Hulk Cornello is incredibly goofy who cares. Personally i have never cared much about animation, simply because while good writing can trump bad animation, good animation never trumps bad writing. Now that said episode 3 is easily the worst of the series, the humor is bad with way to much emphasis placed on running gags, and it is forced. Also the poor quality of the original material (I also consider the first two chapters the worst chapters in FMA) also sure as hell didn't help. The combative nature of Ed goes completely against the series belief in tolerance, and thankfully Arakawa doesn't try to be "Deep" ever again, and she just tells a really good story. I will also say that using an episode vs episode critique is also completely useless, since animation quality is heavily dependant on budget.
It's because while the manga is easily my favorite manga of all times, I really only rate the first anime as above average. The explanations it gives are terrible, with contradictions (it's flat out shown that Homunculi do have a soul), or not enought info (how does Red Water even work), the main villain is a complete moron, and the battles are just normal one on one fights compared to the multiple people fighting that the manga and Brotherhood uses. Also as much as Brotherhood is sped up, the first anime is slowed down. Although theirs almost no filler "episodes" their are plenty of filler subplots, and plots that take their sweet ass time. The one that I always remember is Al pretending to be a haunted suit of armor. Frankly even if every episode was given the treatment episode 3 got, I would still prefer it to the first anime. |
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SoandSo
 Posts: 204 |
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Ohh, Jesuotaku. FINALLY, someone else who really likes to raaaaant about all this rampant terribleness. Maybe this series will be fun after all.
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light_rises
 Posts: 4 |
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Fair enough. In the end, we're treading some pretty subjective waters. While I think the manga has an edge over the first anime for its tightened logical and narrative consistency, I don't consider it superior enough to be happy with an adaptation full of episode 3's. Hell, I'd be right alongside SoandSo and JesuOtaku in sharing their ire if that had been the case. I also view the first anime's tendency to "take its time" as an asset more often than not -- and, conversely, the new one's initial tendency to blast through events a significant hindrance more often than not. So to each his or her own on this point. *shrug* Moving on ... I'm pretty anxious to see the next episode dubbed. It's the first time Brotherhood starts to show the potential it realizes later on. I remember it striking a good (even impressive) balance between straight adaptation, new elements, and even pacing. Granted, though, I only saw it once around the time it first aired, so I'm hoping my impressions from then will hold up. |
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jjwitdaheydiddydiddy
 Posts: 45 |
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By the time they'd finished the original FMA, they were only up to like, volume 10 of the manga. Of course it didn't follow it perfectly! Like DNAngel with the whole Black Wings ending thing, or Bleach with their Zanpakuto arc in the anime spoiler[and the Winter War's over already], but in the manga, spoiler[everybody's still in Hueco Mundo, killing Arrancars.] Or any of the other series' that were animated and "finished" before the manga was complete. They gotta make up a storyline, and it's probably not going to be the same. (Except in the case of Bleach... I don't know where they're going with that.) |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Two things, JJ. First, I don't think people are complaining that the first FMA didn't follow the manga, they're complaining because some fans are claiming Brotherhood is better specifically because it does that annoys them.
Second, Bleach is somewhat of a different case, as it isn't diverging for the purpose of creating a new ending, but simply filling time with a plot arc that might end up not even being canonical for the anime. If memory serves, the characters themselves broke the fourth wall and simply halted the main storyline and are ignoring its continuity for the sake of the current (Japanese) filler. Presumably they will return to exactly where they left off when it's finished. |
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jjwitdaheydiddydiddy
Posts: 45 |
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But fans did complain that it didn't follow the manga enough, which is why we have Brotherhood in the first place.
I know what they're saying. My whole argument up there was that their complaints are stupid, because the first anime couldn't possibly have followed the manga, because the story didn't exist yet. So that if you're going to hate a series, hate it on the grounds that the art is bad, or the writing is awful, or something else logical. Because hating an entire series because the second half didn't follow the non-existent books perfectly... is just idiotic. Also, I know Bleach is a different case--I was just using a similar example to illustrate my point. I assume they barraged us with the filler arcs because the anime was leagues ahead of the manga and Kubo's team is trying to catch up. (Or at least, that's my take on it.) |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I think it's cute that you really believe that's why they made Brotherhood. Except it's not. The first series was immensely popular both in Japan and here, and if it was the only FMA series that ever existed, it would still be lauded for years. Brotherhood exists because Bones is wisely striking while the iron's still hot and getting another payday out of FMA. Not that I'm complaining, but this is clearly why. You act like there was some giant uproar over the first series not following the manga closely and the show did horribly. As for which series is better, there's already a thread for which version one might prefer. It's best to get back to the subject at hand, which is the Adult Swim broadcast of the dub version of Brotherhood. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Tonight's episode was ENJOYABLE, thank goodness...which, um...well, actually that's a problem isn't it? This episode isn't really supposed to be enjoyable, at least not by the typical definition.
First off, HELLO new Scar! Clearly you are not old Scar!  It was unfortunate that his first line was offscreen because for a moment I seriously thought it was Kyoya asking Basque Grand his name for an appointment at the host club. That was weird.  That aside, I think he'll make an excellent Scar, possibly better than the original but if not, at least more inherently sensitive-sounding. It's just a quality he has in his voice that Clarke possessed less of. However, that is pretty ironic because Scar in the original anime was much more sensitive than manga/Brotherhood Scar will be. Either way it's nitpicking, he sounds great. Tucker and, slightly surprisingly, Nina are the same voices, except Tucker is CREEPIER because the manga and now Brotherhood version of him was ALWAYS much slimier from panel one. Yay~ insanity!
Second, I remember being really happy with this episode the first time but still seeing it as greatly inferior to "Night of the Chimera's Cry," which is no surprise. (Tucker's introduction practically screaming "I AM EVIL" and the very overblown attempts to endear us to the girl and the dog were nice big tipoffs.) On a less smarmy note, that version had two episodes and this version has one, so that's a handicap. My opinion mostly hasn't changed, but um...something new I noticed: OVERDRAMATIC MUCH?!
Did anyone else feel that? Chuck Huber was a lot scaaaaarier to listen to this time, really uncomfortably creepy, kudos, but I'm not really sure that was a good thing for this little story. After hearing it in English it becomes more obvious to me that this scene was overblown. The first time around we had some quiet music at the revelation and then silence for the dialogue that followed. This time I think there was silence initially during the shouting match between alchemists and then a massive upswell of a female choir throughout the rest of it all that I really didn't care for. Isn't the tragic choir kind of a cliche? Putting "Requiem for a Dream" to menial things is almost a meme now, at least. Well, even if it didn't break the moment, I do think the scene was overplayed this time. ...For instance...and I KNOW this wasn't in the manga and they wouldn't have had time, blah blah, I know...but I really missed Tucker's speech about why he really did what he did, and the silence and subtlety in it that made that episode something really striking instead of just really grody. I think it's one of my favorite wee monologues in anime. It actually addresses the natural assumptions we would make about his motives, exposes them as pretty illogical, and then substitutes a much darker truth about human nature that we can trace right back to the main characters, the main theme, and continue to do so throughout the show. Not that this episode didn't get it across okay, but Tucker's complete madness was just thrown in our faces without that reminder of "This guy was a successful scientist with a wife and kid and this decision was hard, so where were his motives really?" Again, not really a facet of manga Tucker. Also, those themes and relations to the leads I mentioned aren't as relevant in the manga version either. So it's a tradeoff. Equivalent exchange. Why would I want to see the same thing twice anyway? That'd just be hypocritical. I can't really be miffed at the treatment of Tucker's character here because he was a throwaway cackling mad scientist and not the more complex villain he was in the first anime. In fact I can't be miffed by anything this episode did because it's pretty much all how the manga did it and honestly, the manga wasn't as good as the first anime at telling this particular little story. The manga and now Brotherhood's rendition is shocking and uncomfortable. The 1st anime's rendition is shocking, uncomfortable, but also subtle, thought-provoking and profoundly sad. As usual I'm a one-trick pony here...I guess I'm saying again that anything Brotherhood does in its first several episodes, the original anime did better...to be perfectly honest, anything the manga did in its first several chapters, the first anime did better. The manga is pretty great stuff now, but it had growing pains to go through to get there that lasted a good number of volumes. Initially, I nearly wrote it off as nothing special at all. (Now I'm addicted to it, hee hee.) 
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I liked this episode when I saw it first, in Japanese, so I was looking forward to seeing it again.
Well, surprisingly, episode 4's English dub wasn't too bad. Probably the best episode of the dub. Nina Tucker's voice is still horribly annoying and not cute in the slightest, but much better than in the first series when I was actually looking forward to her exit. Chuck Huber's Shou Tucker is better than before, being really menacing. Maybe he amped it up because this time he only got to be in a single episode. Anyway, great. The new Scar voice is... hm. Well, there's not a lot to it. He seems to have problems really putting energy into his performance. Even Dameon Clarke's Scar, which I thought sounded pretty generic, at least had some effort put in. This guy seems like he's not really that interested in the role. But, this was his first episode, he may improve. Willingham's new approach to Roy is beginning to work. Whatever he's doing finally settled in. It's definitely different than his Roy for the first series. Vic is... still the same Edward. I think Maxey Whitehead's Alphonse has been making strides, though, especially in the scenes where he's playing with Nina or towards the end. I noticed Maria Ross's VA has returned. I'm glad, she was a good performer in the first dub. I like how Edward and Alphonse are shocked that the guy who has all sorts of horrible abominations in cages throughout his house could do such a horrible thing. They're such fine judges of character, those boys. What? The guy with the patchwork monsters screaming for the sweet release of death as they're kept in small cages throughout his dark house has done something terrible to his daughter? SHOCKING! |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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One of the things I hated about the first anime was that god awful Shou Tucker subplot. It mad little sense considering that the reason why he transmuted is wife and daughter was the fact that he was a horrible alchemist, and frankly I wanted him off my screen. The fact that to add the guy they dumped a much more interesting character in the process was even worse.
Thank God they fixed that by killing him in one episode in this series. Personally while Arakawa is good at creepy she's much better at being awesome. So let's just continue with the awesomeness! |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15480 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I was so hoping that this subplot would not be in this series, how I hate that guy, to me he is the face of the horrible things science can do. I spent the whole episode hating the character becaus of what he will do, well at least he is dead so we hopefully wont see any creepy loli clones.
Maybe I just get it to me too much, but this story often brings tears to my eyes, and I get quite angry at the character Tucker. Personaly I think the first series did a better job at this little story, from being more attached to the girl, to the loss of saying it hurt. Also I kind of liked the first anime's Scar, especialy with respect to this part where he actualy tried to help the Chimera. |
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amarielah
 Posts: 178 |
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Yes, because it makes no sense that the government, who spoiler[had been experimenting with creating human hybrid chimearas], would want somebody that had successfully transmuted two of them. He wasn't a horrible alchemist--he had simply set the bar too high and dug his own grave. Not because he couldn't do any better, but because it's rather difficult to find victims for your ~experiments~ that people won't miss. Heck, even Tucker had trouble with that part later on. That being said, you're obviously entitled to dislike the subplot. I personally thought it worked well with the theme of the series. Re: The episode itself. I thought that this was the strongest episode out of the first fifteen, and the dub has just reaffirmed that. I do have to agree with JesuOtaku, though. A little subtlety could have gone a long way. They were definitely going the "Most Definitely Not A Villain" route with Tucker this time around. |
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drdr48
Posts: 360 |
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Episode 4's dub was much better compare to previous episodes, but still was not very good. I hate Ed's Vic. He is so annoying!
And Scar new voice felt flat 
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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Considering that Tucker's chimera form had an upside down head I can't imagine how he would have been able to create spoiler[Greed's Chimeras] even with the first anime timeline. That would be a massive amount of improvement in a short amount of time especially when you consider that spoiler[it's implied that they where made Chimeras soon after the Ishval war began] Tucker's entire point is that unlike the rest of the Alchemist shown in the series, his not an expert, his not this high level master of Alchemy, his the normal guy who tries his best but can't live up to the greatness that the rest of the cast finds so easy. Last edited by Charred Knight on Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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amarielah
Posts: 178 |
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I don't know where you get this idea that talented people can't make mistakes. More importantly, he was expendable, so it didn't matter if he made mistakes. He didn't have to be hyper-competent in order to be an asset to the government. Just competent enough. I still don't see how this doesn't make sense.
I thought the entire point was that he was performing alchemical experiments for the lulz, and the rest of his reasons were just lies. |
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