Forum - View topic[done] Sekirei Pure Engagement Episode Titles
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mo-chan
 Posts: 38 Location: San Francisco, CA |
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I am a wee bit perturbed at the way I am being scolded on the Episode Title page for providing the official Funimation episode titles as they come out. I guess I can understand since my corrections to the titles were shot down once before, but as it turns out, I was right all along. BOTH the official website in Japanese AND the official Funimation titles prove that the existing titles here on ANN were never the complete titles for any episode.
In Japanese, there are three more kanji that precede the kanji - for every episode - that were listed on ANN as the title. They translate as "Feather One," "Feather Two," "Third Wing," "Fourth Wing," and so on. Please see: http://www.sekirei-tv.com/episode/index.html for the titles I am referring to. When I tried to post the translations from the subbed videos, they were removed for being incorrect. This happened even though I pointed out the deficiencies in the kanji that were posted as the complete titles on ANN. You see, I only did this having noticed that the titles the animators themselves put up on the title screens, in kanji, did not match what ANN had as the kanji titles. This is further proven by the fact that Funimation has now begun streaming Sekirei PE; they have the first two episodes available, and lo & behold, the titles are: ep1, "Feather One: Silent Omen", and ep2, "Feather Two: The Wind Blows". Please see: http://www4.funimation.com/video/?page=show&b=331 for these titles I am referring to. How else can I prove this? I emailed the Encyclopedist after my first corrections were rejected with a request for a reason for the rejection of the actual Japanese type graphics from the episodes (not the subtitles provided by God-only-knows-who, but the actual typographics put there by the animators, but I never received a reply (I didn't really expect one, I know you all are extremely busy, and you had already made one ruling on it). But it was legit. So what's my point? This: my resubmission of the official Funimation episode title has been marked as erroneous by someone. If anyone actually clicks the link I provided as a source they would see I was providing a solid source since the episode titles are right there plain as day, here is the reason the official Funimation episode title was marked errorneous: "Your previous entries on this page have already been deemed incorrect by the encyclopedia checkers. I don't think you should re-post the exact same erroneous entries even if you are trying to make a point. Anyway, the link seems to point to nothing but the main page of fumination." FIRST: CORRECT, my previous entries were rejected. INCORRECT, it is not the same information. SECOND: I would never have posted anything "just to make a point." THIRD: As it says in my response to this felonious slight on my character, people really shouldn't go around scolding people with only "seems to" being as far as their powers of observation go. The "main page" (I assume this person means home page) of Funimation is: http://www.funimation.com/ by the way. Lastly, what I really want to know is if these new corrections I have made are also going to get shot down without being reviewed properly yet again. This experience has been very disheartening for me as I frequently put in long stretches of time inputting official titles and whatnot to ANN. But if my efforts are not wanted, I will withdraw them. |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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For the record, here is the error report that was made against one of your episode titles:
I can see the reasoning - this isn't the first series to use a novel way to number episodes, although actual examples aren't coming to mind at the moment and I don't have many DVDs to hand right now. While I can't access FUNi's video site, on Youtube the first episode is simply titled "Sekirei: Pure Engagement (SUB) - 1 - Silent Omen" |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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The post is too long and Shiroi Hane beats me...
Don't be so sure, mate. If you look closely you'd notice that only the second character in each "three more kanji" is different, and if you have some basic knowledge of kanji you'd know they are just (cardinal) numbers. The first character (第 dai) changes the number from cardinal to ordinal, and the third character (羽 u or hane; I haven't watched it and am not sure if it uses onyomi or kunyomi of that kanji) means "feather," which matches the theme of females as "birds." Therefore, "第X羽" is nothing more than "episode X" with a little twist, using "feather" to represent each episode. They are now similar to "eiga" or "gekijōban" in front of meaningful movie titles. Furthermore, I have no idea why you started using "wing" from the third episode; did you use a translator engine or something?
And the first two episode titles you recently added stay as we speak, right? I think there's something more you have to know: only North Americans can access FUNimation's websites i.e. anything ends up with "*.funimation.com". Those who live outside NA would be redirected to http://www.navarre.com/funimation/ automatically. It happens that the person who reported your re-submission as erroneous doesn't live in NA -- just like most Encyclopedists. Ironically, EmperorBrandon and DokoMadeMo are the only two active (visit the site daily) who live in NA; Dan in Japan, abunai and Nader in continental Europe, Shiroi Hane in Wales, and I live in Taiwan. In order to check out the FUNi website you provided we have to use a proxy server.
May I ask which email address you sent your letter to? It would be far more efficient if you use PM of this forum.
It was marked by the user I mentioned above. The user is a seasoned veteran submitter but is not a staff member or an Encyclopedist. I've removed the error mark.
As I said, the website is not accessible outside NA.
Am I not reviewing them now? And your new submissions have never been "shot down." |
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黒鍵
Posts: 24 Location: Sapporo |
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Ok, I didn't realize there is an on-going thread about this here. Since I was the one who made all those error submissions, I think I should make some clarifications here.
This disagreement actually began very early back in the very first episode and I presented the same argument in an earlier error report on mo-chan's entries then. mo-chan's entries appears to have been deleted after a few weeks so I presumed that an Encyclopedist might have looked up on the issue and more or less agreed with my point of view. And then this. I felt that the way mo-chan used in showing his/her point was inappropriate. If he/she disagrees with the Encyclopedist's decision, he/she should simply file another error report or PM an Encyclopedist, and not forcefully re-enter the deleted entries and making a terrible mess of the entire page. In fact, I am seeing that a good number of the encyclopedia contributors are doing this as well, some without even bothering to make error reports and just post what they think is right. Like this page. The ending themes section is a complete mess. I disagree with mo-chan's point about including "Feather One", "Feather Two", etc into the episode title because they are essentially not the episode titles at all. All this boils down to a little wordplay. Simply put: '第一話' (dai-ichi-wa) = '第一羽' (dai-ichi-wa) = 'episode one' '第二話' (dai-ni-wa) = '第二羽' (dai-ni-wa) = 'episode two' ...and so on. The producers styled the episode number by replacing the last character '話' with a homophonic '羽' (read as wa, all kun-yomi here) in the exact same manner as the mangaka playfully styled the chapter numbers in the manga. Probably most of the people here will know that this wordplay on episode numbers or chapter numbers is something we can see quite frequently as well. The recent Shiki is probably a very glaring (if not extreme) example of this. Since '第一羽', '第二羽', etc essentially means 'episode one', 'episode two' etc, I see no purpose in translating them as 'Feather One', 'Feather Two' all the way to 'Feather Twelve' or 'Feather Thirteen' via this logic. In fact, translating '羽' as 'feather' here might be a bit problematic because it is morphologically functioning as a counter here (for birds, Sekirei is a species of bird). In conclusion, they are just episode counters, not episode titles. This is the argument I am trying to present here. To refute mo-chan's claim further, I point to the exact same website he used as a source, the official episode titles page. http://www.sekirei-tv.com/episode/index.html You can easily tell which are the less important episode counters and which are the more important episode titles from the font size. The ANN endorsed source Syoboi Calendar also supports my point. http://cal.syoboi.jp/tid/1958/subtitle mo-chan's inconsistent translations was also a contributing factor. The translation was changed from 'feather' to 'wing' all of a sudden. I am guessing that this was due to the fact that it conflicted with episode four's episode title. And yes, I don't live in NA, so the link mo-chan gave me simply redirects me to the main page. I apologise to mo-chan for the cynical remarks I've made in the error reports in the heat of the moment. I've leave the decision-making to you guys on this matter. Sorry for the lengthy post. Last edited by 黒鍵 on Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Ahh, I didn't even think about the third pronunciation (wa). Thanks a lot. |
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
 Posts: 3783 Location: Montreal |
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Yeah, sorry for not replying sooner to your email. The only thing I can say in my defense is that, as you know, I'm extremely busy. m(_ _)m That being said, I have to agree with all the others who can read Japanese here: the episode number should not be included in the episode title, even if it contains a fancy qualifier such as "feather 1" instead of "episode 1". The way the episode list is formatted is that the episode number is displayed in bold, in a different column than the episode title. |
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mo-chan
Posts: 38 Location: San Francisco, CA |
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So - I guess you all decided to go with the abbreviated titles once again, although I thought I had a pretty good case here - Funimation continues to post videos on their with the complete title for each episode, as indicated in the episode index on the Sekirei Pure Engagement main website in Japanese, and also on the title screens of episodes as they come out. You guys can say whatever you like - but you are now definitely contradicting yourselves. You say the official titles are the ones you'll go with, yet when I provide them, they are taken down.
The titles, as shown on http://www4.funimation.com/video/?page=show&b=331 - Sekirei: Pure Engagement - Ep 1 - Feather One: Silent Omen (SUB) Sekirei: Pure Engagement - Ep 2 - Feather Two: The Wind Blows (SUB) Sekirei: Pure Engagement - Ep 3 - Feather Three: The Wind's Answer (SUB) Sekirei: Pure Engagement - Ep 4 - Feather Four: The Final Feather (SUB) Sekirei: Pure Engagement - Ep 5 - Feather Five: The Sekirei of Flame (SUB) And the titles, as shown in the episode index on the Sekirei: Pure Engagement main website in Japanese (http://www.sekirei-tv.com/episode/index.html): The unaired BD/DVD bonus episode, or episode 0: 第零羽: 閑話弐題（未放送エピソード） Part 1: 「鶺鴒診断」 Part 2: 「鶺鴒余暇(りぞーと)」 Ep 1: 第壱羽: 静ナル予兆 Ep 2: 第弐羽: 風立チヌ Ep 3: 第参羽: 風ノ答エ Ep 4: 第四羽: 最後ノ一羽 Ep 5: 第五羽: 炎ノ鶺鴒 Ep 6: 第六羽: 婚グ言葉 Ep 7: 第七羽: 遠イ物語 Ep 8: 第八羽: 草ノ遊戯 Ep 9: 第九羽: 数多ノ絆 Ep 10: 第十羽: 果ツル空 羽 = hane = feather - and as you can see, it is the third character from the left for every episode title. Now I could see if the titles did not have that character just dismissing it as episode 1, episode 2, etc., but seeing as it is there, it is obviously intended to be a part of the complete title, and not just markers. This will be all you'll hear from me on this subject, and I thank you for your time. |
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Dessa
 Posts: 4438 |
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I asked separately on this specific issue here (since there are many series that use "creative" episode markers), and it was decided by the encyclopedists that it just adds to the clutter on the episode titles page. Add it as trivia, just like I'm going to be doing with the series I follow that do that.
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mo-chan
Posts: 38 Location: San Francisco, CA |
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I guess I should be very specific about why exactly this issue seems so confusing to me; I was going on the information I read in the FAQ thread stickied near the top of the Encyclopedia forum:
I think the rather logical question I should ask then is: so what defines "...the official english title of the episode" or "...the official translation"? I was under the impression that it should be the title given to the episode by the company that licenses it (in whatever English-speaking country they may be in), but now after all this, I am unsure that is correct. |
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
Posts: 3783 Location: Montreal |
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This is a different issue. For example, episode 2 current has the title "When the Wind Begins to Blow" which was probably a self-translation or a fansubber's translation. But the Funimation website has "The Wind Blows". So the official title is the latter, and the list should be fixed to reflect that. The issue you're confused about has to do with episode NUMBERS vs episode TITLES. Let me try to illustrate by examples.
This particular situation is a little unique due to Funimation listing the episode number twice for their videos. It's a weird choice, like writing "Ep 1 - Episode One: Silent Omen". But I think that only a little bit of judgement is necessary to realize that "Feather One" indicates the episode NUMBER and is not part of the episode TITLE per se. Finally, a last point that needs to be made: those titles should DEFINITELY NOT have the "EDITED:" tag. Did you really think that rejected titles would magically become acceptable if you stuck "EDITED:" onto them even though these episodes are not edited at all? :-/ |
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mo-chan
Posts: 38 Location: San Francisco, CA |
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I would like to point out that the titles on Funimation's site are listed as such:
Sekirei: Pure Engagement - Ep 1 - Feather One: Silent Omen (SUB) so "Feather One" isn't just the episode marker - that would be where it says "Ep 1" - correct? And they are all listed like this on Funimation's site. I could see your point if they said: Sekirei: Pure Engagement - Feather One: Silent Omen (SUB) This would mean the episode marker was indeed "Feather One" - and if these titles aren't edited as you say, then what are they? |
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
Posts: 3783 Location: Montreal |
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I'd be more inclined to help you if you had only read what I wrote
The bottom line is this: you are WRONG. MISTAKEN. CONFUSED. This issue is closed. If you bring it up again you'll be asking for a ban. |
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