Forum - View topicReading Between the Lines
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minakichan
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Yes, Zac didn't explicitly say that "ALL sub-fans dload fansubs and have excuses." But there were implications of it. I'm not saying that he said so--I would think that he implied this accidentally. But as a journalist/editor of sorts, I think (as much as I love the guy) he needs to learn to think before he inadvertently pisses people off.
And why does ANN need an editorial to defend itself? I mean, the only news services that do that are independent political extremist news mags. And the editorial wasn't even professional. Zac's column is often purely subjective, and everyone knows it. I think the whole ordeal really has been repetetive cases of bad journalism--and only that. |
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Aristophanes
Posts: 6 |
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Hi,
First time poster, long time reader. 
First off I'd like to congratulate Zac on reinvigorating the answer column; I found Beccy a tad boring and lost interest. Zac obviously has a lot of talent and his Journalistic ethics shouldn't be called into question. But (there's always a but) I did take issue with some of his comments. Despite Ann's 'explanation' of Zac's column, it still seemed like a full blown attack on the fansubing community as a whole. I have been reading Ann for quite some time and I think, no I know that Zac's comments should have been qualified. Not because I'm against him or I have a different opinion but because I respect Ann and hold it in high regard as the online anime community's highest and most refined source of information. Now if ANN was similar to Maddox online, which is funny but isn't exactly fair and balanced then sure I'd be the first one in line supporting Zac. But as I said earlier ANN is Fair and balanced and not some bi-partisan hackery-fest. I think that's why most people took offense. Anyway I still love Zac's column, especially the kitty's .
And please stop with the whole semi-communist argument about how "all art should be free" and how "the anime companies are ripping you off". I mean come on guys, there are thousands of people starving in Africa and you're arguing about merits of free anime? 
Jesus Christ, shouldn't we be thinking about giving little Gupta some wheat before we even consider free anime? 
The whole anime corp beef is old news mate, episode counts(on dvds) are well up and releases are coming quicker than ever!! And if you live in the States then STFU. I'd(Im in NZ) kill for some of the prices and availability you guys have, and so would the UK, OZ and most of Europe. Sure in a perfect world the Anime companies would release boxsets from the get-go, but hey they're a company and they do have a responsibility to their shareholders first and foremost. Anyway that's my 2 cents. |
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ACDragonMaster
 Posts: 405 |
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The thing *I* find funny, though, is that the people who were apparently offended weren't the people who admitted to regularly downloading and watching, or even making, fansubs. The people who openly admitted to that, seemed to all agree with the column. Those who were offended, however, generally have not come out and said that they download fansubs, but rather have been just defensive in general. Hm...
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voodoomage
Posts: 14 |
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I really don't give a rat's arse what anyone thinks about fansubbing.... I will alway support it for this simple reason. Try watching 4Kids "One Piece" and then watch KF and Gerusama's "One Piece" and tell me I should support 4Kids for what they have done... Not in this lifetime or any other.... when that kind of thing stop I won't need fansubbing... I have hundred of legit purchased anime... but there are some I would not give a cent in support of... Now FMA has my money...
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Proman
 Posts: 947 Location: USA |
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There's just one thing I don't understand - why wasn't this editorial written (at least partially) by Zac himself?
As for what was wirtten in the editorial itself, I agree with most of it. |
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biliano
Posts: 956 Location: Cleveland, OH |
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If that's the case, then the problem wasn't what Zac wrote in his column - the problem is that those that were offended simply just don't like Zac Bertschy, and rather see Rebecca Bundy return to writing the column instead of Zac. There's probably still readers out there that are still holding grudges against Zac for his Ghost Stories preview. |
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Aaron White
Old Regular
Posts: 1365 Location: Birmingham, Alabama |
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I did challenge your assertions, but left it up to you to do the basic research into how to construct a valid analogy (which you have yet to do,) why your business model for free anime is, shall we say, naive to the point of dumb, and why basic morals and ethics neccesitate that just because you can dream up a pie-in-the-sky business model in which anime could be free doesn't give you the right to behave as if it is actually free (just as my ability to imagine a world in which candy is free doesn't give me the right to shoplift candy.)
You think anime's a folk art? Guess again. It takes tons of talent and resources to get this stuff off the ground; currently anime has hit a sales slump in Japan, and if the downward trend continues the bad news won't be less anime; it'll be less risk-taking anime, more derivative commercial rubbish. Bootlegging makes the anime companies stay away from the risks they can afford in boom times, making anime more commercial in the wrong ways.
Wait, are you an actual shut-in, or just a guy who won't go out? Of course I'm not saying actual shut-ins should be despised for not doing something they are unable to do, but even so it's no excuse for stealing.
Another boneheaded analogy. Bicycling to work is analogous to, say, reading a library book. Downloading licensed anime is analogous to, say, stealing a car. And here's the nub of the matter: every person I've ever dealt with who blithely claimed that there's no wrong whatsoever in any bootlegging practice has always been someone who used anime as a compensatory pleasure; in other words, anime wasn't the dessert in their lives, it was the whole meal. I'm sure there are people who eat nothing but Oreos and claim they're happy. They don't know what happiness is. And neither do people who base their whole lives on passive entertainment. I love me some anime, but it's dessert. |
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shenlongmizuno
 Posts: 51 |
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I cannot speak for other but the reason why I reacted so negatively is simply because his comments about fansubs reminded me of teachers/professors who use the classroom to preach their political ideology and politicians who will use any opportunity as weapons to attack their opponents and further their political goals. I hate people who constantly bash others over the head with their private agendas in situations where they are unecessary and unwanted.
Read the Answerman article, it was just the tired old sub vs dub debate and instead of answering the question zac went on his little fansub rant. Even thought I generally agree with what he is saying, people who act in that manner rub me the wrong way. gg |
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Kazuki-san
 Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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True, however you PAY to go to school (well, ok some people don't), and therefore do not expect to be saddled with such things, even though you are. This site, however, is free, but, as with school, you have the option of not reading his columns (or dropping a class with a prof you don't agree with). The other problem is Zac isn't making some sort of outrageous statement or an unfounded opinion. Obviously he was not painting everyone who downloads fansubs with one broad stroke of the brush, but rather a specific sect. The excuses they use are just as he described, and his arguments have a basis in law (for quite a few more countries then just the US in fact) and economics. Couple that with the fact that although he's the Answerman, Zac's column is also an opinion column (have you read some of the trash the print in Op-Eds in the paper?), and it really does not dawn on me why anyone outside of the specific group he was referring to would be upset. |
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shenlongmizuno
Posts: 51 |
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The professor will at least give me an education so I will deal with his/her unecessary opinions. Zac on the other hand failed to answer the person's questions about subs vs dubs. That cannot be overlooked.
Like I already said, personally I generally agree with him. My problem is with his going off on a tangent with his editorializing and not answering the person's question.
I bet everyone has met people who can turn a simple question such as "How is the weather?" into a platform for them to get onto their soapbox and preach about their favorite cause be it environmentalism, globalism, the opposite political party or whatever. Zac's column is the same and I find people like that damn annoying. I am not saying he should be censored, Zac should be able to write his articles however he wants as long as ANN supports him. And I will continue to voice my annoyance when he ignores questions to step into his pulpit and start preaching about fansubs. |
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Jerseymilk
 Posts: 157 Location: Wouldn't YOU like to know. |
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I'm finding all this huffing and puffing about how people were treated in the column amusing. Not because of this particular issue itself, but the fact that people are just NOW complaining about his conduct is laughable. News flash: Answerman has always been a jerk in his columns, and Ms. Answerman wasn't much better, though she was more snobby than rude. Everyone was content before to just read it and not complain. To laugh at whatever poor chump happened to write in with the wrong question that would piss the author off for that week, but now that he's "seemingly insulted" a larger protion of fans, you're all crying foul. Kind of late in the game if you ask me. I suppose Zac's mistake was that he went too far this time eh? I mean just a little bit of obnoxious snobbery is allowed, as long as he doesn't group "us" in there?
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Professor Genius
 Posts: 57 |
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People having a grudge against Zac because of the Ghost Stories preview?
If that's the case, they can cram it with walnuts! God forbid Zac should enjoy the dub of said program or argue why its dub is superior than the original version! Believe you me, if ADV made a straight-up dub of Ghost Stories, they would be lucky to break even. Those purists of you out there should be grateful that the original language and subtitles will be there for your enjoyment. Thank the heavens for Steven Foster! He may not hit the mark all the time, but his dubs have made many a mediocre program into gut-busting laugh-fests. |
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RodimusBen
Posts: 25 Location: Harrisonburg, VA |
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Just one more person throwing in his two cents here...
Personally I am glad there are people in the anime community like the Answerman who will stand up for what is right and not kow-tow to a bunch of spoiled brats with entitlement complexes by either endorsing or ignoring the downloading of fansubs. In a world where millions die from hunger yearly and over half of the world's population regularly goes without the basic necessities of life, complaints about the cost or availability of anime are nothing short of pathetic. Personally, I don't think Zac was strong enough with his words. Anyone who downloads permanent copies of anime fansubs in place of buying legal DVDs or viewing it through other legal means should be ashamed of themselves. They are a disgrace to the anime community and an embarrassment to legitimate fans of the medium. |
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MarxLuver
Posts: 2 |
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And now for a somewhat serious post.
[quote="RodimusBen"] Personally I am glad there are people in the anime community like the Answerman who will stand up for what is right and not kow-tow to a bunch of spoiled brats with entitlement complexes by either endorsing or ignoring the downloading of fansubs. In a world where millions die from hunger yearly and over half of the world's population regularly goes without the basic necessities of life, complaints about the cost or availability of anime are nothing short of pathetic. Alright. Yes. Millions of children are dying. But...you know, when you consider THAT fact...why is this anime fansub vs DVD thing even an issue? We could all download fansubs and use the money we would have spent on DVDs to feed starving children. Honestly, I think anime fandom has a bit of a big head. It's not THAT important. There are other, more important things in life than anime. While it's true that people who complain that they are "too poor to afford anime" are not looking at the bigger picture and the fact that they are fortunate to have what they do, the people who spend thousands of dollars on DVDs about big-titted women who kick things aren't doing much better at looking at reality. In other words: get over yourself, anime fandom. The world is full of starving, dying people. That alone should make this debate useless. |
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ACDragonMaster
Posts: 405 |
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You get over yourself. Bringing up sob stories like that has NOTHING to do with the discussion at hand. And besides, if people can't handle the little problems, such as the ethics of fansubbing, then they sure as heck will never be able to take care of the big ones. Bringing in such charged topics like "there's starving children in India" or references to Nazi Germany or anything of that sort is NOT a good debate, it's just trying to shock and control people and generally manipulate things away from the actual topic at hand. There's a time and a place to discuss the big issues, and this is not it. |
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