Forum - View topicFruits Basket (see 2nd post for thread info)
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aya_honda
 Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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Yes, absolutely Kyoko's friendship meant for Arisa moving up to a whole new level. I think that it said a lot the fact that spoiler[Kyoko went back there for Arisa and took her out of the battle for good. Not to mention the way Tohru was waiting for them. In that scene one can actually see that a new family has been born. I loved the way it showed that Arisa changed under Kyoko's guidance because there was no one better who could have understood her, not even Tohru. On the one side we have Kyoko who understood best what it means to be part of that gang and what loneliness can be felt and on the other hand there was Tohru with her unconditional love. This is what made Arisa changed forever and then latter accept whatever changes love brought into her life as well. ]
Not that it isn't true.... By far spoiler[Rin's parents are the worse and they are perhaps on the same spot with Kyo's parents followed by Kyoko's parents, Machi's parents and let's not forget Momiji's mom, whom I personally think is one of the worse too. And Yuki's parents as well... There are some s***y parents in this manga, as I definetly agree with LydiaDianne. ] And it seems that this topic usually appears when we talk about a character. But it is almost unavoidable. Almost every character had some trouble with the parents and they do some nasty things due to them. Most of the times, the parents affect the way the characters relate to the other characters and the way they perceive the world. And Kyoko's parents are unquestionably one of the worst. Now, Kyoko has also met (Big Spoiler)spoiler[Yuki when this guy finds Tohru and unfortunately this also meant the final break up between Kyoko and Kyo. Seeing that Kyoko starts to like Yuki as well, actually praising him for what he has done hurts Kyo the most because all his life has been told that he can't be compared with the rat, who is superior to him. And when Kyoko praises Yuki and Kyo found himself unable to fnd Tohru the relationship between these two is broken forever. I mean, there's also that scene, later on when she is dying and she wants to tell him that she won't forgive him if he doesn't take care of Tohru. Unfortunately, Kyo thinks that she said that she won't forgive him because he didn't save her. It was a really sad thing. ] |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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As usual, I've cheated. What volume is that in so that I can have LOTS AND LOTS of tissue handy. I know I'm going to need it. 
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Ningensei
 Posts: 333 Location: Seattle, WA |
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When I see "Big Spoiler," I decide not to click on it, because I know that it is something way ahead and I don't want to ruin it for myself! I get so tempted but I must muster all my self restraint in order to keep me from reading it! As for Arisa and Kyoko, I think that they are really quite spoiler[similar, except since Kyoko had been in her position before, she was able to help guide and support Arisa during her troubling times, while Kyoko did not have anyone to care for her until she met Katsuya.] Now a question for everyone: What would Kyoko think of spoiler[Kyo? Would she approve of his feelings for Tohru? She is a very protective mother I don't think she would give away her beloved daughter to any man.  Though I think in one of the earlier volumes when Arisa is teasing Kyo mercilessly, she mentions that she has to pick on him because that is what Kyoko would do because of his orange hair or something like that. I can't remember exactly but Arisa is carrying on the spirit of Kyoko's good natured teasing and the like.] 
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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I'm sorry, it's my fault.  I can't help myself putting big spoilers..... Anyways, this occurs in volume 20, chapter 119 (I had to go and see the entire collection ) By the way, Ningensei, here it starts also to say spoiler[how Kyo is meeting Kyoko and the rest of the story]
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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aya_honda don't worry. I have absolutly no self-control! That's why I'm sort of surprised I'm managed to stay on my diet...sort of...
Ningensei, I truly admire your self-control. I'm jealous. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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My take on things. I think Kyo spoiler[took the wrong end of things when he got upset that Kyoko was thinking well of Yuki. But he was young, only six or seven, but how was she supposed to know that Yuki was the cause of all his troubles. She only knew that Kyo was a lonely person and she helped him out by meeting him and talking to him. And then he finally stopped seeing her after confronting her about Yuki.]
Then spoiler[that fateful day happened, where Kyoko would leave the world. And Kyo had to see it. They both recognized each other, not knowing they both knew together. Kyoko in her heart as she was dying knew from her time with Kyo that he was the only one who could possibly take care of her daughter, because of the heart that he had.] I've had a couple ideas for what to do after we finish all of our characters for the series. And I think that this time I should ask the fans what would be a good choice to keep our thread going, your opinions would be appreciated. 1. We can do a poll here in the thread about certain issues, such as worst parents (hint, hint) 2. We can discuss the events of each individual volume in the weekly system we have been using. 3. If you might have a suggestion, feel free to post, pm me or drop me an e-mail, which my address is available through my profile. |
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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After reading the final chapters on Kyoko's story, unquestionably that Kyo spoiler[took the wrong side of the words she muttered as she was dying. I mean, the way she has sounded was just like she was going to incrimante him for something; in fact all she wanted was to say that she won't forgive him if he doesn't take care of Tohru. But back then for Kyo things have been getting really tough and it took really much time for him to heal. The fact that Shishou has taken him to the mountains was the best thing to do under circumstances. I mean, if this haven't occured, probably the things would have been getting really tough on Kyo. ]
A particular funny thing about Kyoko: I loved when she finally understood Katsuya's feelings for her and spoiler[he kissed her, she said something like "Katsuya, are you a pedophile?" and that he isn't made for the teaching thing. ]Still I can't remember exactly which is the difference age between these two. 
Yes, fighterholic, your ideas aren't bad at all . In fact parents should be a topic of its own cause, damn, there are far too many bad parents in this manga. There are plenty to be discussed here.
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Ningensei
Posts: 333 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Ah, it looks like there is more to the Kyo-Kyoko relationship than just that one meeting between them that they shared in Volume 16. I guess I will just wait until that comes along in the English releases even though that seems like a long ways away.
I really like your ideas as well fighterholic. I think we spend a predetermined amount of time on the parent issue and then when that is completely fleshed out we can go onto the weekly volume system. Although when we get caught up to the English releases, a few of us won't be able to contribute. But that wouldn't be for awhile, so I still think it's a good idea.
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Feedback. The most effective way to let one know whether his or her ideas are good or bad. And I'm appreciating the type of feedback I'm getting from you all
 aya_honda, the age difference between Katsuya and Kyoko was spoiler[8] years. I guess the thing that would really bring that out into the open is what time in their lifetimes that their marriage occurred, because spoiler[Kyoko was 15 when it happened.]
A note to you all, after we finish our last character I am going to take a break from bringing in discussions and finish the gauntlet of finals, which is coming up right at the end of the month. I hope you don't mind. |
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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Go right on ahead! School is definitely more important! |
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Ningensei
Posts: 333 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I agree! Plus at the end of this month, I will also be trudging through finals and research papers so I don't know how often I can come on but I definitely will try! |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Yeah, I'm tired as it is having to go to morning classes four days out of the week, on top of that working and then taking evening classes as well. Time to catch up on sleep during the summer.
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murph76
 Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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Is there really enough material to discuss FB parents? Some spoiler[aren't developed as characters beyond the point of showing how terrible they are to their children. Others only appear for a chapter or two, and while we know why they behave good or bad toward their child, they're still rather one-diminsional.] I'm not trying to throw cold water on the idea, but I wonder how fruitful a discussion like that would be.
I do like the idea of discussing individual volumes. We could branch into locations in the manga, specific scenes, character interactions, how certain characters grow from Vol. 1 to Vol. 10. It has a great deal of potential, in my view. Anyhow, back to Kyoko. I'm curious about Kyoko's relationship with Hanajima. To me, it seems spoiler[Hanajima didn't need a "mother" the way Uotani did. Hana already had decent, respectable parents who accepted her, her gifts and only wanted the best for her. (One of the few good parenting examples in the manga.) I think Hana needed Tohru's love, friendship and acceptance as a peer, an equal, more than she needed Kyoko's friendship.] However, Hana spoiler[is affect by Kyoko's death just as much as Tohru and Uo. So, how to we describe Hana and Kyoko's relationship? Kyoko was more than just the mother of Hana's best friend to Hana, but less than a mother figure.] Any thoughts? -Murph |
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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I think for Hana, Kyoko was spoiler[a friend who, like Arisa and Tohru, accepted her for who she was. Not that she was the "witch," the "vibe," or the "poison wave girl." She was Hana. Pure and Simple. And Hana needed, indeed craved, that sort of acceptance.] |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Unfortunately for us, spoiler[certain parents are shown in the manga acting their way towards their kids because that's the way that they felt, and we can't change that. Though I'm sure there was a good side to everybody, they let themselves turn to the dark side (bad parents) when their children were born or events happened that changed them forever.]
I think Kyoko and Saki spoiler[were in a different kind of relationship than Kyoko and Arisa. They were friends, Kyoko like Tohru and Arisa accepted Saki for what she was, a normal human being (with a few special powers). Kyoko's standing towards Arisa was more like sister type because they both went through the same kind of thing.] |
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