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Shelf Life - QB of the Year


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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:41 am Reply with quote
Aylinn wrote:

A mascot that turns out to be evil is not that original either. I remember something similar in Kamikaze Kaito Jeanne. There is also Bokurano, which is not a magical girl, but there is an evil mascot there.


I don't think it matters too much how original it is. It was one of the main reasons Madoka has gotten so much praise. Without it Madoka becomes a much more conventional magical girl show.
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ChocoBar1



Joined: 09 Nov 2011
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:43 am Reply with quote
SquadmemberRitsu wrote:
See? It works both ways

Also being all passive aggressive and spamming that eyeroll emoticon doesn't make you look smart. Just saying.


Actually it doesn't. Your lack of a rebuttal is enough proof I need

Polycell wrote:
@ ChocoBar1:

How does pointing out they recycled animation prove anything? Each instance you point out has redone coloring and slots into the show the same way new animation would've. Even if we were talking about time-filling transformation sequences*, that's still would say nothing about quality.



*I couldn't find the full version on YouTube.


It proves that the animation was not fluid or polish and that they had to resort to cheap methods to make ends meet. Ypu have no idea what you're talking about, they didn't re animate it they just used the same scene and added a color filter on it which is just lazy.

[EDIT: Personal insult removed. -TK]
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:17 am Reply with quote
ChocoBar1 wrote:
t proves that the animation was not fluid or polish and that they had to resort to cheap methods to make ends meet.

Again, reused animation isn't the same as stiff or rough animation; if they drew it fluid the first time, it'll be fluid every time they "resort to cheap methods" and repeat it.

Quote:
Ypu have no idea what you're talking about, they didn't re animate it they just used the same scene and added a color filter on it which is just lazy

I never said it wasn't "lazy"(given their lack of manpower it'd probably count as a smart move), nor did I say they reanimated it - I merely said that they redid the coloring, whether by filter or repainting it, so they could use the same line art in another context(again, they had a severe lack of animators, so this kind of niggardliness would've just been replaced with another had they not done it - would you prefer Hanna-Barbera style?).

I just commented on the images you posted; I never said a thing about the series outside the technical merits being discussed. As for me "criticizing other series for using the same method", A) transformation sequences are just the same footage shown over and over, possibly edited for time*, which isn't even remotely the same thing as what you show in your images and B) I was only bringing up a more blatant use of recycled footage to illustrate that reuse doesn't have a damn thing to do with the quality of the animation - you just get fifty-two chances to see any mistakes.



*The full version of Futari wa Pretty Cure's transformation sequence is nearly two minutes long.
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GVman



Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 729
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:21 am Reply with quote
After I finished Madoka, I realized that neither the character drama nor the plot ever interested me. The only stuff that kept me watching was all the silly shock value stuff, and there wasn't near enough to make the show worth a rewatch. The characters were all fairly bland, and the plot isn't much of anything. Interestingly enough, the same can be said for most every other Gen Urobuchi anime. Plus, the art sucks.
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2394
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:52 am Reply with quote
To those who don't think Madoka is a "deconstruction" of the Magical Girl genre because it's more sci-fi, why can't it be a sci-fi Magical Girl series? I mean, Nanoha had sci-fi elements, too. The key point is that Madoka subverts expectations of the genre it's a part of. Antagonistic mascot, no plot armor, the Witch twist, etc. By doing so, it raises questions of the legitimacy of the usual popular tropes in the genre, and I'd call that a deconstruction. The neat thing, though, is that this respects the genre regardless and it has many purposes outside subverting expectations.
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sunflower



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1080
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:55 am Reply with quote
GVman wrote:
After I finished Madoka, I realized that neither the character drama nor the plot ever interested me. The only stuff that kept me watching was all the silly shock value stuff, and there wasn't near enough to make the show worth a rewatch. The characters were all fairly bland, and the plot isn't much of anything. Interestingly enough, the same can be said for most every other Gen Urobuchi anime. Plus, the art sucks.



I have to say I somewhat agree with this. While I appreciated what the show was doing, I was bored the entire time I watched it and couldn't wait for it to end. I stuck with it only because it had received so much praise. And once the full scope of the show had been revealed I understood why people loved it. I, however, was not one of them.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:53 am Reply with quote
The more of the hyperbollox I see surounding Attack On Titan the less I want to see it.
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GVman



Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 729
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:03 pm Reply with quote
Juno016 wrote:
To those who don't think Madoka is a "deconstruction" of the Magical Girl genre because it's more sci-fi, why can't it be a sci-fi Magical Girl series? I mean, Nanoha had sci-fi elements, too. The key point is that Madoka subverts expectations of the genre it's a part of. Antagonistic mascot, no plot armor, the Witch twist, etc. By doing so, it raises questions of the legitimacy of the usual popular tropes in the genre, and I'd call that a deconstruction. The neat thing, though, is that this respects the genre regardless and it has many purposes outside subverting expectations.


Madoka's definitely a magical girl show, but I felt like most of what it did was pretty typical magical girl stuff. I wouldn't say it does much more of the deconstructing than what I've seen in other shows.

Mohawk52 wrote:
The more of the hyperbollox I see surounding Attack On Titan the less I want to see it.


It starts out with a lot of umph, and then completely loses it as it continues onward. I'd say the anime covers the best part of the manga; everything afterwards has been terribly watered down so Isayama can keep this going as long as possible.
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ChocoBar1



Joined: 09 Nov 2011
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:35 pm Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
Again, reused animation isn't the same as stiff or rough animation;

What the hell qualifies as stiff and rough? They're all cheap processes when it comes to presentation because it looks poor in presentation to the overall product, it doesn't matter if it was fluid the first time if they re-used it again and again it diminishes it entirely.



Quote:

I never said it wasn't "lazy"(given their lack of manpower it'd probably count as a smart move)

anime#14950
Typical Titan fanboy doesn't know what he's talking about
AoT had more key animators working on the show then any other anime that aired that season, the problem is that they were frequently behind schedule and turned in their product late leaving different versions for different stations leaving in color mistakes and bad art. It's less lack of manpower and more lack of competency. Kyo Ani was able to produce anime with much more consistently fluid animation with half of the staff but you wouldn't know that at all would you fanboy?

Quote:
I just commented on the images you posted; I never said a thing about the series outside the technical merits being discussed. As for me "criticizing other series for using the same method", A) transformation sequences are just the same footage shown over and over, possibly edited for time*, which isn't even remotely the same thing as what you show in your images

Transformation sequences are entirely different from copy and pasting a select scene from a previous episode and adding on to another, it's more jarring and more lazy because it's apparent that not time was done to properly animate a new sequence so they had to be lazy about it

Quote:
and B) I was only bringing up a more blatant use of recycled footage to illustrate that reuse doesn't have a damn thing to do with the quality of the animation - you just get fifty-two chances to see any mistakes.


They have everything to do with quality animation
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EnigmaticSky



Joined: 06 Aug 2011
Posts: 750
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:04 pm Reply with quote
invalidname wrote:
Quote:
Like it, love it, or hate it, Madoka Magica is one of…

Wait, there are people who hate Madoka Magica? They're not allowed to vote or drive cars, are they?

"How dare someone have a different opinion than I do! They must be idiots."
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SquadmemberRitsu



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1391
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:16 pm Reply with quote
ChocoBar1 wrote:
SquadmemberRitsu wrote:
See? It works both ways

Also being all passive aggressive and spamming that eyeroll emoticon doesn't make you look smart. Just saying.


Actually it doesn't. Your lack of a rebuttal is enough proof I need
The only thing it proves is that you don't deserve a response

If you stopped parading around with that false sense of superiority you feel because you weren't a fan of some god damn cartoon series that other people liked and make a point actually worth rebutting then I'll gladly rebut it. But as of right now that point has not been made.

I'm not exactly what you'd call a 'Titan fanboy' (In fact I openly dislike many people in its fanbase) but it was a well made, if heavily flawed, shonen action series with some great themes and a good balance of dark and light content. Which is a lot more than I can say for other gore fests like Future Diary or Akame ga Kill.

Those aforementioned flaws? You've basically covered none of them. All you've done is talk about animation. Well, that and lots and lots of ad hominem (Including heavy use of the word 'fanboy', quite possibly the most irritating buzzword in existence).
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EnigmaticSky



Joined: 06 Aug 2011
Posts: 750
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:18 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
The more of the hyperbollox I see surounding Attack On Titan the less I want to see it.


In all honesty it's a very good show. Everyone seems to talk about it like it's the greatest thing ever or mindless trash only enjoyed by idiots. In actuality it's a pretty well plotted action show with good characters. It's not mindless just because it isn't Serial Experiments Lain.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:21 pm Reply with quote
EnigmaticSky wrote:
. It's not mindless just because it isn't Serial Experiments Lain.
How I miss thoses days.
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ChocoBar1



Joined: 09 Nov 2011
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:45 pm Reply with quote
SquadmemberRitsu wrote:


If you stopped parading around with that false sense of superiority you feel because you weren't a fan of some god damn cartoon series that other people liked and make a point actually worth rebutting then I'll gladly rebut it. But as of right now that point has not been made.


But I have made a point, all you've done was prowl around not proving anything other than being upset that you can't make a good rebuttal.

Quote:
I'm not exactly what you'd call a 'Titan fanboy' (In fact I openly dislike many people in its fanbase) but it was a well made, if heavily flawed, shonen action series with some great themes and a good balance of dark and light content. Which is a lot more than I can say for other gore fests like Future Diary or Akame ga Kill.


But it wasn't well made and the only way you can possibly be impressed with it's "themes" is if you're 13 or you've never read a book in your life.

[/quote]
Those aforementioned flaws? You've basically covered none of them. All you've done is talk about animation. Well, that and lots and lots of ad hominem (Including heavy use of the word 'fanboy', quite possibly the most irritating buzzword in existence).[/quote]

Actually i have I brought up it's very bad pacing and it's poor animation (which neither you or the other fanboy had brought points up for it) an fanboy isn't a buzzword kid, if you don't like being called a fanboy tone down the bias will ya?
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ChocoBar1



Joined: 09 Nov 2011
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:51 pm Reply with quote
EnigmaticSky wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
The more of the hyperbollox I see surounding Attack On Titan the less I want to see it.


In all honesty it's a very good show. Everyone seems to talk about it like it's the greatest thing ever or mindless trash only enjoyed by idiots. In actuality it's a pretty well plotted action show with good characters. It's not mindless just because it isn't Serial Experiments Lain.


None of this is true. It truly is the Walking Dead of anime, only good for watercooler moments and to just fit in with the crowd.
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