Forum - View topicBest Supporting Character Tournament: Post-Mortem
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RHachicho
 Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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You know what I just realised that in changing my vote to Balalaika I have gone against something I said to Abunai in a previous round. I figure I shouldn't really be voting to change the outcome but rather for whome I wan't to win. Therefore I will Vote Change back to Tanda.
As for the minigame I agree. If we start doubting each others motivation and making unsubsantiable accusations at each others these tournaments will quickly cease to be fun  And yes I know I may have been the one to bring up the fact that the minigame was influencing things earlier in the tournament. But I have had a chance to engage brain since then. And I have no wish to do the forum equivolent of stepping feet first into an industrial grade beef mincer.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18226 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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From this point out, RHachicho's official nickname in these tournaments shall be "Mr. Indecisive."
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Olliff
 Posts: 550 |
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No need to name call, Key, though I know you are only joking. I think there's nothing wrong with changing your vote multiple times; it just proves that they put enough thought and effort behind their vote to actually realize that may have made a mistake with their vote. Better to be that than bull-headed any day.
Well, my name has been mentioned several times, so I will answer. I have voted against my bracket several times. Nabuca is the best example in this tournament. In other tournaments, I voted against Hotel Moscow and even Section 9 even when my bracket advanced them on to the next round. Hate to admit this, but Key is right. The people who are consistently most successful at this tournament construct brackets based on who they think will win with a careful formula that weighs both merit and popularity. Personally, even though it was ruled as a void argument eventually I thought that certain characters were too main characterish to deserve to go far, but I still progressed them in my mini-game because I knew they were well written characters with a lot of support. Not getting emotionally biased when making your bracket is key, but I'm far from perfect too; heck look at how far I progressed Hosaka. I would like to suggest something that at first might seem contradictory; it can sometimes help to vote against your bracket if you feel that by building opposition against that character can help your later picks survive. I did that with Tanda and Nabuca in this tournament, and with Band of Hawk and Hotel Moscow in the last one. I also admit I'm not perfect and I sometimes over-argue, and I apologize, but I think my lack of free time has helped me greatly improve in this area. I for one enjoy a debate especially if it is thoughtful and well rationed, but I know not everyone else thinks that conflict and opposing viewpoints clashing can be healthy in moderation. Does anyone remember when I asked JesuOtaku to specifically dissect my arguments in the last round of the Most Intelligent Character contest? Last edited by Olliff on Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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That's because there is none. I hadn't really planned it that way, it's just that I found it easier to debate without having to do it as part of my reasoning in a voting post. However, I'm not going to wait until the last minute. ---------- Look, I voted for Kisuke over Tanda last round, and naturally I haven't budged on that. So it comes down to Kisuke versus Balalaika. He fulfills more roles than she does, and he does most of them better than she does hers. The two things that Balalaika has is memorability and presence. I don't put much stock in either of them really, because people have been saying for ages that Spoor had both in spades and she just . . . well . . . well, I strongly disagree with that assessment. Therefore, I don't put much stock the judgement of those people who believe that Balalaika had those two attributes, because if I disagreed with them on Spoor (it seems to be largely the same people) then it is very likely that I would have disagreed with them on Balalaika. That is, assuming I had watched Black Lagoon. Yes, I do remember saying somewhere that judging by the clips Balalaika had presence, but I never said it was anywhere near the degree that has made her the favourite to win. Additionally, Kisuke's screen presence is nothing to be scoffed at either, and I believe he at least as much in this regard as she does. Now, Balalaika does seem like she could have more memorability than Spoor, but it is telling that Kisuke got a lot of backing very fast when I nominated him. He is the supporting character whom people most remember from Bleach, a show with a cast so massive it often borders on the ridiculous. Therefore, I don't think Balalaika has the edge here either; neither character has a clear cut win. But if those two traits are her greatest strengths, then Balalaika's dead in the My choice for the winner, and one who will receive my vote: Kisuke Urahara No surprises there. |
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RHachicho
Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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Lol no worries Oliff I wouldn't take offense at something like that but I do prefer to be called Mr. Unpredictable. It sounds cooler lawl.
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Generic #757858
 Posts: 1354 |
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Was waiting to see which way the wind blows, but since the three seem to be pretty much tied at the moment I might as well just throw my vote in, go to bed and hope for the best.
I voted against Urahara in the semifinals and still remain unconvinced of his merits, so this comes down to Balalaika and Tanda for me. Like Key said, they are diatmerically opposed, the badass showstealer versus the subtle supporter. As much as I like Balalaika (easily my favorite character in Black Lagoon) I must ultimately give this one to Tanda, for his well developed character, involment with the plot, interactions with the main characters and his skills and quiet strength that he's always using to help them. He's essential to Moribito and deserves to win this tournament. Voting for: Tanda |
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bahumut75
 Posts: 65 Location: Rochester, NY |
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Having gotten even further in Black Lagoon, I can say that I think Balalaika has a number of merits in this tournament. She is important to the story and its creation. She is obviously very influential in the world as well, and definitely has a strong screen presence. However, I've been putting a lot of weight on interactions with the main characters in my previous decisions, and part of the way into the second season I can't really say Balalaika does a whole lot of that. While she is a great character, I don't think she matches up to the criteria I've been using, and falls behind Kisuke and Tanda. Tanda seems to perform well on this metric based on the other comments, but I think Kisuke fits the bill the best for me. Not only does he heavily influence the rest of the cast, but he plays so many other roles that make him vital to the series that I can't see not voting for him here. Whatever you want to attribute it to, I think Bleach falls apart without Kisuke there, so he gets my vote here.
Finals: Urahara Kisuke |
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ccdx
 Posts: 312 |
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The end draws near.
Finals Balalaika, Black Lagoon vs. Kisuke Urahara, Bleach vs. Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Well, my vote should come as no surprise to anyone, as I have made my feelings about who I think is the best supporting character quite clear. As early as the beginning of the third round I stated that I prefer an amazing and memorable scene presence over supporting of the main characters/story any day. To me, a great supporting character is someone who I remember, long after I have finished watching the series. A character who is clearly defined as not being a main character, but when it's their turn on the screen they easily out preform all others in the series. Balalaika is the epitome of this quality in a supporting character. She instantly grabs your attention and both impresses ans shocks you with her cold-heartedness and ruthless way about which she conducts her business. And when a character that can do all that also contributes in an important manner to progressing the story line, it's as good as a done deal to me. |
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farichada
 Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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Finals
Balalaika, Black Lagoon vs. Kisuke Urahara, Bleach vs. Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Oh noes I really don't know who the vote for since all three of the choices have a unique edges and their own very different weaknesses. Tanda is the most complex character and he is traditional support the mains supporting character, but he sadly lacks in the force of personality category. Urahara has plot contributions, a likable personality and his presence defines the style and mood of the story. Sadly, his influence caps out later in the series when his presence seems more focused on withholding plot information. On the plus side, he's excels as supporting character in more ways than the other two and he has considerable importance even when he's not even on the screen. Bailiakia is the presence queen, and she has more raw impact as a supporting character than any of the other choices. Sadly, her involvement with the other characters is limited, and her character seems a bit too overly perfected, and I think its lame that she's painted as a genius at gang warfare but the exact planning behind the execution of these plans remain vague or never even shown. Not to nag on the choices because I still thin they are insanely strong choices overall. Sadly, the characters that I feel are most worthy are no longer around. I suppose I must make a decision and to make matters worse this match is super close and any of the picks could win. Still think Tanda is the weakest so he's out. Between the other two, I am finding it impossible to make a pick since both characters exploit the other characters weaknesses so well. And strangely enough this can also be said about Tanda too. Hmmmmm, I really don't know; good arguments could be made for or against all of these characters to win it all. I suppose I'll cast my vote for the only character who isn't pure srs bisness which would be Urahara, and based on the fact that he's the strongest character in his series, and that can't be said for Tanda, and it would be a slight stretch to say that for the leader of Hotel Moscow. Also if there's a tie, I think we should make an exception and have a run off even if its duration is less than a week. Ties are lame sauce, and I really don't think there's a need to keep the precedent set in the Best Heroes tournament. We need a winner especially when there isn't going to be a plurality in the votes cast, and there are three picks here and not two. |
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~~EpiC~~
 Posts: 243 |
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Finals
Balalaika, Black Lagoon vs. Kisuke Urahara, Bleach vs. Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit While I dont' know if I made it in time before the stage closed... I will still throw out a vote for Balalaika. Balalaika makes Black Lagoon, and I do not feel I can say the same thing for the other two. While there have been great arguments for Tanda, I still can not bring myself to vote for such a forgettable character that has very little presence and I can't bring myself to vote for Urahara because he does not do enough over the course of Bleach to defeat her presence. I really can't say anything more without sounding redundant, everything has already been said about Balalaika. While Balalaika may not be the strongest character in Black Lagoon, she is certainly one of the top against some strong contenders. Urahara really doesn't have anyone to compete against. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18226 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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The Best Supporting Character Tournament is now complete.
And here's the deal, people. Technically ~~Epic~~'s vote came in late, but since we finish in a tie without it, I'm going to allow it as a tiebreaking 20th vote. That gives us a final margin of 8-7-5 (Tanda was the 5) in favor of. . . CHAMPION: 
Ol' Scar-Face! Kisuke put up a tremendous fight, coming back from a mid-round deficit to tie it at the end, and even Tanda was close enough to be a factor at the end; who amongst the other two was helped or hurt more by his presence is highly debatable. That all made for a pretty exciting finish, I think. And so this tournament is done. Thanks to all who participated, and thanks once again to ccdx's diligent efforts on the video clips and to Dorcas_Aurelia for running the minigame. Standard Post-Mortem discussions will follow, and I'm sure D_A will soon post the official minigame results. (Obviously, I am very interested in that.) Post-Mortem Looking forward, I'm not burnt out on the tournament stuff like I was after the last one, so I'd be ready to forge ahead in only a week or two. However, here's the issue with that. Getting started again in another week or two would run the Nominations phase of the next tournament into the first week or two of October. That's a problem, because once shows for the fall TV season start coming out, I will suspend any involvement in tournament administration so I can concentrate on the Fall 2010 Preview Guide, which will likely take me out of action for two weeks. (This is, I think, the first time one of these has hit right when we're in set-up for a tournament.) I just don't see any way around that, as the Nominations and set-up are by far the most time-consuming aspects of these tournaments. So I'm open to suggestions on how to work around this. For the Post-Mortem, I'm also open to suggestions on anything that might need to be tweaked for the tournament format. Also, I'd be very interested in hearing people respond to the following specific questions: 1) Did the tournament encourage you to check out any series that you had not already considered watching? 2) Given anime you have seen since the tournament started, would you have voted differently in any previous rounds? 3) Who, if anyone, do you feel was a major omission from participation? |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I think Kisuke claims the moral victory, for having supporters that don't put off voting until the deadline has passed. Ah well, he did far better than even I had expected; I was sure that Tanda would claim a solid second.
As for the questions: #1): Well, not really. Nabuca was a great find, but I don't really want to watch such a depressing show. #2): Nope. #3): I need to think on it. I don't believe there were any glaring omissions per se. Edit: And now that the tournament is over, it's sadly time to change my Avatar. |
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zawa113
 Posts: 7358 |
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1) Umm, well the tourney did remind me of the existence of Banner of the Stars and that I've never seen it despite having seen Crest of the Stars. Due to wanting to save up some anime for the school year, I've just started rewatching Crest since it's been so long and then I'll get onto Banner. Seeing how the person from Banner went on pretty far, I'm curious how that might've affected my votes had I seen the series beforehand, or maybe has seen Crest more recently because I totally forgot who she was. But the problem with this was that since I'd always planned to see the show, I refused to watch any of her clips or even read the descriptions for fear of spoilers. Other than Crest/Banner, which I was already interested in before the tourney started, and a few others I was already interested in before the tourney started too, this tourney didn't really encourage me to watch anything new so much as remind me that I need to rewatch some stuff and place an order on TRSI (which has been completed btw)
2) At the start of the tourney I had not yet seen Now and Then, Here and There and due to the pestering of a friend, I finished it probably by the time round 2A had begun. Had I seen it before though, I probably would have opposed Nabuca during the nominations round because I still think he is too much of a main character. While I don't think this problem would necessarily affect all tourneys, there is a problem with requirements being too vague at times and it definitely showed up during this tourney. Now, since the tourney had begun, I've seen Infinite Ryvius and Elfen Lied (though I already had plans to before the tourney even began), I would have gladly voted Neya over Nabuca had I seen it before. I'm not familiar with who Nana from Elfen Lied was up against so I'm not sure if that vote would've changed 3) Hmm, well I haven't really been following much anime these past few seasons since I've decided to play catch up on already completed things, so there's no one I could currently think of...now that I've started watching anime again more now that I'm at the dorm, I'm sure I'll think of someone in due time, I think a few good characters probably got left out during nominations though simply due to people having no idea who they were and I think far less deserving characters easily got in due to being from more well known shows at the same time, but I feel like there's no real way to ever fix that complaint. I recall having nominated Shep from Interstella 5555, but I don't think anyone else voted for him during nominations. I also think Mechazawa should have made the cut, but I'm pretty sure he was ironically dropped for being too much of a main when you ask me he wasn't (whereas I still consider Nabuca to be a main yet he got in, and as I said in #2, I wasn't familiar enough with the show at that time to oppose him). So I think some characters got shafted here due to lack of popularity and others due to different interpretations of who was and wasn't a main or not. Unfortunate. I do rather wish we don't do too many more tourneys where the qualifications for characters are so vague. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16941 |
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Wow....I honestly did not expect Ol Fry Face to beat Tanda and Kisuke. I didn't even think she'd make it to the finals. So color me surprised. Happily surprised though. Ya know, if we ever get to the Badass tournament she might even go far in that one. If so she would wind up being a top contender in 3 different tournaments. That one, the one we just had which she won, and the team/organization one via Hotel Moscow. Has any other character been a top contender in 3 different tournaments so far? She might set a record. Onto the questions for now though.
1) Did the tournament encourage you to check out any series that you had not already considered watching? Normally this is a no for me. Generally the top contenders I already know and have seen their respective shows. At least enough to know if I like or dislike them anyways. This time however the answer is a yes. In a manner of speaking anyways. I have Moribito on my "want to finish" list and this tournament has definitely placed it at the top. I've seen much of the show but it was fragmented and not complete. So I definitely want to marathon it now from start to finish in whole. 2) Given anime you have seen since the tournament started, would you have voted differently in any previous rounds? Not at all. I consider my votes carefully each and every time. 3) Who, if anyone, do you feel was a major omission from participation? Off the top of my head I can't think of anyone. I might be able to give an answer or two in a day or two given time to think about it. As for the Fall preview guide Key I say just take the time needed for it and wait until you're done before the next one starts. I don't think an extra 2 or 3 weeks will hurt anyone. I'd personally rather wait and make sure you can spear head it as you always do a good job. |
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Generic #757858
Posts: 1354 |
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Simon maybe? He did well in the Hero tournamant, fairly well in the Team one and would probably fare pretty well in the Badass one too. |
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