Forum - View topicStarting to take care of duplicate staff tasks
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Devil Doll
 Posts: 656 Location: Germany |
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When I credit a staff person for "原画" this is automatically translated to "Key Animation".
When I credit a company for "原画" the task remains untranslated (example). Would there be any problem with both mechanisms sharing the same translation table? |
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Devil Doll
Posts: 656 Location: Germany |
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If I remember Dan42's explanations correctly he once said that translating the tasks would be a static replacement operation, i. e. impossible to undo because the knowledge about the previous condition would get lost in the process.
With this in mind it would be the best strategy to think very thoroughly before starting to replace anything, and this thread is the direct consequence. But several observations about discrepancies between the display of translated tasks at various places in ANN give me the impression that Dan42 actually implemented a replacement on the fly, i. e. running the stored string through a translation matrix every time it is about to be used for anything (display within a HTML page, string comparison etc.). If that's actually the case it would mean no loss of data and "errors", i. e. suboptimal mappings in the translation table, were easy to fix without - just edit the translation table. This way the dynamic translation gives an additional degree of flexibility (at the expense of additional CPU load on the server). Why do I mention this? Because if this observation were correct than it could (and should) change the whole strategy of this project. Having in mind that all translations can be undone without any significant effort the creation of this translation matrix could be done incrementally without causing any (significant amount of) additional work. The translation table could be filled line by line with translations of kanji/kana strings into roumaji strings, and if someone happens to come up with a better notion for an translation result the only thing to do would be to replace this string with in the "translation result" column of the translation matrix (i. e. one SQL statement). As such I would like to encourage the encyclopedists to start translating at least some strings. For example, start with all the katakana strings where translation appears to be unambiguous as far as the mere sound pattern is concerned (it could still be the case that the term used by the original source is suboptimal, such as "スタジオ" (studio) when they meant "sound studio"). With the ability to incrementally improve the translation without additional effort the different goals (allowing kanji input vs. choosing the best possible English technical term for a particular task) can easily be separated. The sheer number of kanji-only tasks that have been contributed so far may appear frightening. I'm all for starting where investing time would be the most rewarding. Dan42 could easily create a list of all kanji/kana task types together with the number of entries in the database for each of them, and sort the list by this number; what about tackling the 10 most frequently used task specifications first? This way of handling things would significantly decrease the number of kanji entries visible to the normal visitor and as such reduce the impression that the task type display at ANN might be something like a construction site. If anything, this would the encyclopedists buy time to think more thoroughly about the really tough cases (such as the "episode director" for movies). Another way of tackling things might be to focus on one field of tasks. Let's say, Color/Paint and Finishing. ANN may now have a number of task descriptions in this field that should a) be translated to roumaji and b) normalized to the best possible wording. How can you get the superset of these strings? Possibly by selecting all persons who have at least one credit named "Color", "Paint" or "Finishing", and then create the superset of all task names of all these persons. This will miss a few very rare cases (such as a person with just one task and a typo in its specification) and also contain some task specifications too many (think of split request cases!) but it would still come close to the expected result. A specialist for the topic could inspect these terms, specify how many different tasks they describe, and create a translation matrix for the "Color"/"Finish" segment alone which Dan42 could then add to the existing list of translations. No need to understand every other task of the animation production process. And if some terms were translated wrongly, no problem - just fix the corresponding translation lines later. There are many ways to actually start filling this translation table. Waiting for the perfect solution would not be the way I would suggest doing it. The "divide and conquer" approach to filling the translation matrix might allow to get 80% of the intended result by investing 20% of the total effort. There might be a "political" aspect to the issue: I'm not sure whether some visitors would be confused to observe the display of the task they specified to change due to the translation process, and in some cases even more than once. I would not have a problem with this, and with an appropriate external presentation of the project (as incremental process instead of a "big bang" change) most other visitors shouldn't have one either. (How many visitors have complained about the kanji strings so far?) A short "Letter From The Encyclopedist" could be the way of announcing this strategy (and even the way of asking for additional input, high-quality sources etc. about cases where even the encyclopedists aren't absolutely sure). By the way, how are American anime licensors/releasers doing their task of translating these strings? Does ANN have enough contact to these companies to ask (some of) them to join forces in this particular field? (Or would ANN consider these sources inherently unreliable?  )
And my previous question in this thread still stands: Is there any reason why a kanji task specification should be translated differently for persons than for companies? Because apparently it was implemented this way as we can see with "原画" as the most obvious example (which is being translated for persons but kept unchanged for companies). Using the translation table for tasks of persons for the tasks of companies would again significantly decrease the number of tasks displayed as kanji/kana strings (most notably the "In-Between Animation" entries for companies happen to be quite a few for some longer anime series). |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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Is it possible to get a decision made on this, or at least a preferred translation to use? Due to confusion over what term to use I've taken to using the Kanji as-is since at least that can be converted afterwards. To autoconvert this one a term would have to be relevant to both digital and cel animation since it is used for both, so Digital Paint, Cel Painting and Computer Coloring are all out, which basically leaves Finish Animation, Clean-up animation, Coloring and possible Ink & Paint (if you take this to include digital paint). |
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
 Posts: 3782 Location: Montreal |
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So far I haven't received many suggestions for how to translate the tasks, so I guess if I don't do it then no one ever will. So I've translated a bunch of tasks. Here is the current list of kanji -> english associations
Last edited by Dan42 on Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:52 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
Posts: 3782 Location: Montreal |
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And here is a list of possible translations (based on this translation table), including the task names yet to be translated.
Last edited by Dan42 on Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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braves
 Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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EmperorBrandon
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 2209 Location: Springfield, MO |
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I agree with braves completely on this. Also, regardless of what it is translated as, it needs to appear in nearly the same position as "Episode Director" is in the staff order, since it's the same task. |
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
Posts: 3782 Location: Montreal |
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Ok, I've changed the various 演出 tasks to Unit Director. Originally I chose Technical Director because this page translates the task as either animation director or technical director, but animation director is already associated with 作画監督
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EmperorBrandon
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 2209 Location: Springfield, MO |
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Technical Director could also clash with the rare but sometimes used テクニカルディレクター, which may be a different kind of task. So in addition to keeping it separate from that, I'm more inclined to support Unit Director since it shows up in official R1 anime credits more often and can be better associated with both series and movies. It just needs to be in the upper tier of staff credits along with Episode Director and it can be used the same as it. |
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Devil Doll
Posts: 656 Location: Germany |
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Let's sort (most of) these tasks a bit (I left out some where I didn't really have a clue). This doesn't claim to be a perfect translation of course, I just try to locate semantic groups resp. equivalents. Beware, some guesswork ahead.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- オープニングアニメーション = "Opening Animation" (i. e. "Key Animation (OP)") エンディング演出 = "Ending Direction" (probably "Animation Director of the ED sequence") エンディングアニメーション = "Ending Animation" (i. e. "Key Animation (ED)") --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 検査 = "inspection" (underspecified, may be animation check) セル検査 = "Cell Inspection" 検査補佐 = "Inspection Assistant" 検査補佐 = "Inspection Assistant" 動画チェック補佐 = "In-Between Check Assistant" セル検 = "Cell Examination", may be Finish/Check 仕上進行 = "Finishing Advance" 仕上検査補佐 = "Finish Inspection Assistant" 動画仕上げ進行 = "In-Between Finishing Advance" (?) 動画仕上進行 = "In-Between Finishing Advance" (?) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- デジタル彩色 = "Digital Paint" 色彩指定 = "Color Specification" 色彩設定 = "Color Creation" 色指定・検査 = "Color Designation & Inspection" (two tasks: Color Specification and Color Check; I split these and contribute both separately) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 撮影協力 = "Photography Collaboration" (used by companies Studio Wood and Azuhata Production) パソコン画面作成 = "PC Screenshots creating" (used by photographer Masaru TAKASE in Alien Nine where PC screenshots with personal data of the squad members are part of the story) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 美術 = "Art", i. e. Background Art (used by Youji TAKESHIGE, background artist) 美術設定 = "Art Creation" 美術設定補 = "Art Creation Assistant" 美術進行 = "Art Advance" 美術アイディア = "Art Idea", may be the same as previous one 美術監修 = "Art Supervision" (leader of the Art team?) 美術担当 = "Art in-charge" 编成担当 = "Art in-charge" 技術協力 = "Art Collaboration" 背景スキャン = "Background Scan" 背景デジタル処理 = "Background Digital Processing" 背景擔當制作 = ??? (used by Kentaro TAKAHASHI and Yoshihide TAKENOBU in Haibane Renmei, credited as "background" by the U.S release) プロップデザイン = "Prop Design" 小物設定 = "small articles creation", i. e. "Prop Design" 小物デザイン = "small articles design", i. e. "Prop Design" メカニックデザイン = "Mechanic Design" メカ設定補佐 = "Mecha Creation Assistance" 予告イラスト = "Preliminary Announcement Illustration", i. e. picture/art for a series/episode preview/promo 予告CG制作協力 = "Preliminary Announcement CG work collaboration" エンディングイラスト = "Ending Illust"(ration) サブタイトルイラスト = "Subtitle Illust"(ration) アイキャッチ = "Eye Catch", apparently the illustration for some eye catch before a commercial break? アイキャッチ原画 = "Eye Catch Animation" タイトルデザイン = "Title Design" タイトルロゴデザイン = "Title Logo Design" ロゴデザイン = "Logo Design" 同人誌イラスト = "Fanzine Illustration" ビジュアルアート = "Visual Art" エアブラシ・ワーク = "Airbrush Work" ブラシアート = "Brush Art" (same as above?) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ゲストデザイン = "Guest Design" (?, used by Utano TAKADA in Silent Möbius) ゲストキャラクター = "Guest Character" (?, used by Seiki TANAKA in Silent Möbius; might then refer to the appearance of Assembler, a guest character from another anime by Asamiya Kia, in a flashback scene) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ビデオ編集 = "Video Edit"(ing), as opposed to Audio Editing ビデオワークス = "Video Works" HD編集 = "HD edit"(ing) VTRワーク = "VTR Work" (?, used by video editors such as Koutaro MURANAKA and Daisuke UDAKA) 編集助手 = "Editing Assistant" (unclear whether video or audio editing, I would guess video) ネガ編集 = "Nega Editing", i.e. Negative Edit オペレーター = "Operator" (underspecified? used by Kozo YONEYAMA, a video editor) オンライン編集 = "Online Editing" オンライン編集担当 = "Online Editing in-charge" オンライン編集スタジオデスク = "Online Editing Studio Desk" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ２Dワークス = "2D Works" 3DCGワーク = "3D CG Work" 3Dワーク = "3D Work", may be the same as above コンポジット協力 = "Composite Cooperation" (2D video effects?) コンポジットディレクター = "Composite Director" CGディレクター = "CG Director" CGプロデューサー = "CG Producer" CGエフェクト = "CG Effect" "デジタル特効" = "Digital Efficacy", i. e. "Digital (special) Effects" 特効 = "of particular efficacy", usually translated as "Special Effects" 効果 = "effects", same as above 特撮監督 = "Special Effects Supervisor/Director" エフェクト担当 = "Effect(s) in-charge" デジタルワーク = "Digital Work/Production" (?, used by Koji KAJITA, Hiro YOSHIOKA and Koujirou HAYASHI) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 音楽制作 = "Music Production" 音楽プロデュース = "Music Producer" 選曲 = "Chosen Song"; my guess would be "Song Selection" 主題歌 = "Theme Song" (underspecified, may be composition, arrangement or both? used by Takashi MIKI and Takashi YANASE) オープニングテーマ = "Opuning Theme" (sic! underspecified like previous one; used by Katsuhisa HATTORI) 原曲 = "Original Song" (used by Shinji ORITO for Kanon, thus probably indicating the music of the original game) 作 = "Production" (extremely underspecified, therefore this must have context in the kanji credits; my guess would be the production of an OP/ED song; used by Tamiya TERASHIMA in Hanaukyo Maids); 曲 = "Composition" (of a song, same context dependency as the previous one; I've seen it used there) 演奏 = "Musical Performance" (person Tokyo Symphonic Orchestra) 整音 = "Intonation" (may be the same as the previous one? Used by Shuji INOUE, a Ghibli sound engineer] 作詩 = "Verse Making" (could this be "song lyrics"? Used by Naoko SUTANI, a song lyrics writer for To Heart) キーボード・プレーヤー = "Keyboard Player" シンセサイザー・マニュピュレーター = "Synthesizer Manipulator" (configurator? fine-tuner?) 音楽制作協力 = "Music Production Collaboration" 製作 = "Production" (used by [url]Naoki SATO[/url] who got credited for "Music", so this may be "Music Production") --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 調整 = regulation, adjustment, tuning (underspecified, probably sound editing; used by Yasunori EBINA, a recording engineer) 音響調整 = "Sound Adjustment" サウンドミキサー = "Sound Mixer" ミクサー = "Mixer" ミックス = "Mix"(er) 音響担当 = "Sound in-charge" 録音エンジニア = "Recording Engineer" アシスタントエンジニア = "Assistant Engineer" (underspecified? used by Fumiaki TANAKA, sound recording assistant) アシスタント・エンジニア = "Assistant Engineer" アフレコスタジオ = "Afu-Reko Studio", i. e. After Recording Studio ダビングスタジオ = "Dubbing Studio" スタジオスタッフ = "Studio Staff" (underspecified, audio/art studio? Check anime where this is used) 音響制作 = "Sound Production" 音響制作協力 = "Sound Production Cooperation" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "キャラクター原案" = "Character Draft", apparently "Original Character Design" (used by Tatsuki AMAZUYU in To Heart 2 who created characters for games which turned anime later) オリジナルデザイン = "Original Design" (used by mecha designer Yutaka IZUBUCHI, and by Art Designer Takashi WATABE in Silent Möbius which has no mecha) サブキャラクターデザイン = "Sub-character Design" (used by Makoto KANEKO in Triangle Hearts, another game-based anime) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ディレクター = "Director" (?; reference not found) 総作画監督補佐 = "Chief Animation Director Assistant" (?, used by Kumi HORII, animator / animation director) メカ作画監督 = "Mecha Animation Director" コンテ = "conte", i. e. "Storyboard"? (used by Yasunori IDE for the storyboard of the ED section of "Familiar of Zero") 画コンテ = "Picture Continuity" (another variant of "Storyboard"? Used by Hisashi SAITO for the storyboard of the OP section of To Heart ~Remember my memories~) プロットデザイン補佐 = "Plot Design Assistant" (used by Hiroshi OGAWA for Lamune, a game-based anime series) コンセプトデザイン = "Concept Design" シナリオ監修 = "Scenario Supervision" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- アシスタント・プロデューサー = "Assistant Producer" プロデューサー補 = "Producer Assistant" チーフプロデューサー = "Chief Producer" プロダクションマネージャー = "Production Manager" アニメーション制作担当 = "Animation Production in-charge" 製作担当 = "Production in-charge" 制作プロデューサー = "Work Producer", may be the same as above 製作プロデューサー = "Work Producer", may be the same as above プロダクションマネージャ = "Production Manager" エグゼクティブ・プロデューサー = "Executive Producer" ラインプロデューサー = "Line Producer" プロヂューサー = "Producer" プロデュース = "Produce"(r) 共同プロデューサー = "Collaboration Producer" (?; used by Taro MAKI in Alien Nine; Yuki_Kun45 filed an error flag indicating this is "co-producer") プロデュース協力 = "Produce Collaboration" プロダクション協力 = "Production Collaboration" 製作協力 = "Work/Production Collaboration" 制作協力 = "Work/Production Collaboration" 設定協力 = "Creation Collaboration" 特別協力 = "Special Collaboration" (underspecified; may be "Special thanks to"; used by Ryousuke TAKAHASHI and Toyoaki MATSUZAKA) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 配給担当 = "Distribution in-charge" (used by Shokichi ARAI, a Ghibli Production Committee member, in The Yamadas) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- プロモーション = "Promotion", has been translated as "Publicity" 広報 = "Publicity" 宣伝担当 = "Publicity in-charge", may be the same as above 広報担当 = "Publicity in-charge", may be the same as above 広報協力 = "Publicity Collaboration" 宣伝協力 = "Publicity Collaboration" 海外プロモート担当 = "Overseas Promotion in-charge" 番組宣伝 = "(TV) Program Publicity", i. e. publicity for the TV airing? 番組担当 = "(TV) Program in-charge" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 文芸 = literature (i. e. recherches of literature for story background etc.) 文芸担当 = "Literature in-charge" 文芸進行 = "Literature advance" 文芸設定 = "Literature creation" (?, used by screenwriter Tatsuhiko URAHATA) フランス語担当 = "French (language) in-charge" フランス語訳協力 = "French (language) collaboration" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- キャスティング協力 = "Casting Collaboration" キャラクター・ヴォイス = "Character Voice" (used by Yasuko TOMITA and Akira NAGOYA, both seiyuu) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- タイミング = "Timing" (of subtitles, used by Hiroaki HIRABAYASHI) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- WEBデザイン = "Web Design" (of the anime's website?) ホームページデザイン = "Home Page Design" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- グラフィックスオーサリング = "Graphics Authoring" (?, reference not found) グラフィックオーサリング = "Graphic Authoring" (?, used by Koji TANAKA (cinematographer), a photography director) レイアウト監修 = "Layout Supervision" (?, used by animator Akitoshi MAEDA in Love Hina) エンジニア = "Engineer" (underspecified? used by Toshiyuki FUKUI as his only credit) /people.php?id=22126]Masaru TAKASE[/url], a photography director, in Alien Nine where screenshots with data of the anti alien squad members are part of the story) アバンテロップ = "aban telop"??? (only used in Petite Cossette by this person who does video edit / logo design) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- EDIT: Lots of links added. Last edited by Devil Doll on Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:29 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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Need to look through the whole list, but probably not while I'm on holiday using unreliable 3G.
You often see non-credit openings referred to as "ノンテロップ" so I suspect this is something to do with the credit sequence. It's actually in EDICT: "(orig) television opaque projector (telop), used for subtitles and captions, now used for the subtitles and captions themselves". There's also an entry for アバンタイトル: "material before the title and credits in anime, etc. (wasei: avant title)". I think one would have to watch the episode in question to figure out exactly what they were referring to here. |
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braves
Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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I'll comment on a few others later. Gotta catch a bus. |
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Devil Doll
Posts: 656 Location: Germany |
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Lots of links to persons inserted into my previous posting.
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braves
Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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Ah, this one. I've used these on both Birdy and Casshern. In most cases there's also another set of people credited with being the Layout Animation Director, so I guess they used this to differentiate the two tasks. I think Key Animation Director and Assistant Key Animation Director should do. Key Animation Animation Director is too redundant.
Isn't this just straight up "Animation"? I've seen this plenty of times and I believe they want to emphasize the fact that there aren't any in-betweens, but that's just my guess.
I added this one for Yoshimichi Kameda. I asked about this to someone more familiar with the Japanese animation process than myself. In this specific episode, there's one person credited with being the "Mechanic Teacher" and a set of people credited with being the "Mechanic Student". This pretty much means that those people worked on the key animation for the mecha and possibly FX and the Mechanic Teacher was the Mechanical Animation Director. So...perhaps "Key Animation (Mecha)" should be the translation? It's such a idiosyncratic way of crediting that task that I don't think it'll pop up anywhere else. |
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Devil Doll
Posts: 656 Location: Germany |
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The anime title is shown no sooner than about 03:15 min into the first episode. The OP credits follow soon after: A movement sequence (the lead character walking through a crowd) is interrupted several times by stills of abstract paintings which the credit kanji are written over (similarly to Elfen Lied - is this already "superimposing"?), toggling between these two elements for about 45 seconds. So episode 1 of this anime has no specific OP sequence, instead these stills are inserted into the normal story as if they were flashback images or something like that. |
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