Forum - View topicMost creative, scientifically accurate, or unique technological/magical conceits?
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Ghost_Wheel
 Posts: 203 |
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Let's get right to it. I'm always looking for great science fiction and fantasy, and in my travels I've come across some really cool concepts. I get the greatest pleasure from seeing a very well made construction of ideas evolve in time throughout the setting in a natural, believable, and interesting way.
I guess the one thing I really should explain is what I mean by "scientifically accurate". By nature these are conceits which are being made by the show, assumptions about the universe that haven't already been shown to be true, so it seems like an oxymoron. What I'm talking about here is a concept that, once postulated, is treated like a science by the characters or tone of the show and behaves in a similar structural way to other natural processes of the physical world. So think Shin Sekai Yori's Power over something like Kara no Kyoukai's supernatural world. Both of these series concentrate heavily on the psyche of the characters and have settings that allow emotions and desires on different levels of consciousness to affect the physical world. In fact, there are a lot of shows like this, but I think Shin Sekai Yori's handling of it is by far the most "scientific". The Power is very well defined throughout the show, both in the sense that we understand it in the abstract and intuitive sense. We know it's strengths, limitations, general effects on society, and relationship to the individual well enough to be able to extrapolate its role in other possible situations. It also feels very biological, and it's role in the natural world is very ingrained, so intuitively we understand it on a more fundamental level. While the concept of something like this has been done over and over again, this distinguishes itself here in it's execution, which, to paraphrase Key, gives us an entirely new reality for humanity. Something like Kara no Kyoukai or Princess Mononoke, on the other hand, is not the kind of thing I'm looking for when I think of scientific. In these, most of the supernatural conceits exist simply to make the battleground of ideas and themes a physical reality. The fact that that physical reality can be beautiful, chilling, and compelling does not change the fact that it's still ultimately a metaphorical construct. That said, I still have creative and unique up here, so if you've seen something like this that distinguishes itself in some other way, share it! Noein: To Your Other Self is a great example of a show with a conceit that satisfies all three conditions. The execution of taking quantum mechanical principles to a macroscopic level is very well observed. This reflects well in the events of the show and the disposition of the characters. Quantum beings have an intuitive understanding of their role and function, some earth and extra dimensional scientists organically reveal more and more about the underlying functions, and the role of the Dragon Torc as an unfettered observer is well constructed. Key the Metal Idol is another one of my favorite examples. The Geist is an excellent physical representation of what is ultimately the abstract concept of the process of showmanship and the nature of this kind of community. From the very slow buildup to the big reveal of its physical properties, the role this process plays in the development of it's characters and setting is pivotal. This absolutely wins most unique for me, and it only helps that this was also portrayed extremely scientifically. The Vision of Escaflowne also distinguishes itself in my mind because of Isaac Netwon's role and influence. While never directly stated, the fact that Isaac Newton's alchemy was able to manifest itself in Gaea and had taken hold for much of it's history is a very real theme in the series. In my mind, this distinguishes it from many other fantasy worlds and makes Escaflowne less stock than a lot of people seem to think it is. For proof, watch the Escaflowne movie. People rag on it for being different and it almost seems like it's arbitrarily so until you realize that in this world, we have no Isaac Newton. The Escaflowne movie is the ultimate explicit comparison of the setting's event path with and without this influence, and the differences are well constructed and beautiful. I wish I had more time to elaborate at the moment, but I don't. I'm really curious to see what everyone says because this topic is really interesting to me. Last edited by Ghost_Wheel on Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:43 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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nobahn
 Subscriber Posts: 5120 |
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The first thing that popped into my mind was Fullmetal Alchemist. I was always comparing that show (FMA) with Inuyasha because (back in the mid-00s) I had access to Cartoon Network, and CN was always showing those two shows. FMA -- it seemed to me -- was always being careful to lay its action down to obey the rules as set forth; Inuyasha, on the other hand, always seemed to be coming up with new rules; or new exceptions to the rules. That's why I've always preferred Fullmetal Alchemist to Inuyasha.
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victor viper
 Posts: 630 Location: The deep south |
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It may not be exactly what you had in mind, but the first thing to occur to me was Serial Experiments Lain.
Lain's vision of the internet/Wired seemed a bit radical circa 1998, but it's proved to be eerily prescient. The show's technology for the most part is comparable to what we have today, and the concept of Accela seems perfectly reasonable in Lain's universe. After all, in our world we're creeping closer to Google Glass and various other technologies that could lead to enhanced humans. Once these "wearable" enhancements become mainstream, I have to think that Accela-like chips won't be far behind. The most interesting aspect of the show is its prediction of the rise of social media. How many of us watched Lain's father back in the day and said "no one could ever be so invested in their online life"? Well, I now see dozens of people like him on an everyday basis. The idea of people disassociating themselves from their physical bodies, preferring to live in the Wired no longer seems so far-fetched. Now, if you'll excuse me, I think I need to go put that show in the DVD player. |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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While the personal superpowers can be a bit difficult to explain, I've always been impressed by the amount of thought that went into creating the Kiddy Grade universe, in particular the transit systems involving Space Elevators and, while there may be a lot of nanotech handwaving, the nanomist which makes everything from physical shields to floating monitors and costumes does have scientific grounding.
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phia_one
Posts: 1657 Location: Pennsylvania |
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Apologies, if I'm misunderstanding OP's post, but Tweeny Witches comes to mind when I think of most creative.
In the series, the magical world is separated into two factions: witches and wizards. However, it's only witches that use magic while wizards have embraced technology. In order to perform a spell, you need a body part from a fairy/sprite/magical creature. For example, in order to fly on a broom, a witch needs a feather from a griffin. However, a witch also needs to have magical aptitude in order for the spell to work correctly. This doesn't just mean skill, it also deals with self esteem. I could go on, but then I'd be spoiling the show. |
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Ghost_Wheel
Posts: 203 |
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As far as understanding my post goes, as long as you explain what's going on like everyone's been doing, I'm happy to hear it. There are lot's of different ways for a concept to distinguish itself such that it's clear that thought was put behind it. The stuff about concepts being scientific was to fish out and see if other people looked for a similar kind of thing in a setting or concept.
I've seen a bit of Tweeny Witches, seen all of FMA: Brotherhood, and heard of everything but Kiddy Grade. I'll have to look into that because the designs and the Utility Fog concept seem cool at a glance. There were points where the equal exchange in FMA seemed more like poetic justice than scientific principle, but for the most part I thought it was very well developed, incorporating a lot of the lore and alchemical principles defined throughout history and extrapolating very well into a different society. By the end I felt I had a very complete understanding of it's machinations. Makes for an ultimately good example I hadn't really thought much about in years. |
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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What I was writing started to get kind of long and I got tired, so I'll add more tomorrow, but here's what I have so far:
Steins;Gate: Scientific discovery is a funny thing. As a scientist myself, I must say that all the best stuff you find happens unintentionally or unexpectedly. It’s a little different than most people think though. When people hear about scientific serendipity, they think of a complete accident: someone is incompetent and makes a mistake or does something they didn’t intend, or something gets noticed that wasn’t anything like what you were looking at or setting out for, and it didn’t really have anything to do with your efforts or talent. That is not how scientific serendipity occurs. What is overlooked about the whole process is the fact that scientific research occurs on the boundary of knowledge. What the undertaking of a project is is the intentional creation of situations where you don’t know what’s going to happen. Situations where you know that something weird has the potential to happen. And you’re sitting there with all your knowledge and senses, ready to notice it when it does. And what a laboratory is is the social and interpersonal environment which is conducive to engineering the possibility of those situations. While it may not be scientifically accurate in the physical sense that someone could send information back in time by connecting a cell phone to the input of a microwave, the future gadget laboratory and its members really do create the kind of environment where something like that effect could be found. Their endeavors really are posed exactly right to make some property of the universe that was always lurking in the shadows come roaring to life in a dramatic and new way. Their process rings true as well, how it takes time to figure out what’s going on, because it’s a new problem, not something where you can look the answer up to, but eventually it gets solved. Why does the banana turn to gel? Why does the microwave carousel rotate the other way? Consistent observations, but the cause, that’s the thing to figure out. I think the best part was when they eventually figured out that the reason the machine only worked intermittently up to that point was that the CRT tv downstairs had to be on. That feels like a true science story. It’s always something weird like that that’s going on: the thing you’re looking at is intermittent or poor in effect, but then you find the lurking variable, which is always something completely out of left field and bizarre, and suddenly everything is much clearer and better. The characters also were the kind of people you’d expect to discover something like timer travel. I must say that my lab is quite the cast of characters as well, and these guys really felt like a science bunch. Space Brothers Is perhaps the most scientifically accurate work of science fiction I’ve ever seen. It chronicles a series of missions to the moon establishing a permanent moon base in the 2020s, and the astronauts and candidate astronauts involved in the space program at that time. It’s a really slow paced series, multiple episode spans being devoted to specific kinds of training and the like. There’s a definite slice of life focus, but the scientific ideas are really well reasoned for the most part, and it captures very well the sense of excitement about science, engineering and space travel, while painting a picture that seems like it could be reasonably accurate as to where we could be in 10 years. Genmu Senki Leda Had an interesting idea in the being Leda’s power being manifest as information, namely a sonic pattern. The heroine composes a song on the piano that contains the pattern to the revival of Leda, and the villain reads this off the magnetic tape in her tape recorder to gain the power as well. I say this one fits because the power was in the actual information content of the pattern rather than being described so much as some mystical thing. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4093 |
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It's hard to figure out if typos are intentional or not. I like it but doesn't that just raise the question of having a dial operated microwave? Well, I suppose it worked in Seven of Nana and it made more sense there as well... being older and less tech savvy. Steins;gate, I figured out its methodology just based on hearing its time travel system. Unfortunately, the series itself never worked out its own implications and it fully played out as I figured, as an ego trip centered around the main character. Sad series, had potential. Here's one of the problems: All worlds exist in that premise and he's looking for the one that best suits himself. Will he find it? What price will he have to pay for it? No need to answer that, really. Sure, you can add in "divergence points", "main character immunity" and ... digitizing personality data so it can fit as an email attachment and download into a new vessel? Science, you magnificent bastard! I re... Wait, huh? Speaking of discoveries, doesn't that kind of outperform multiversal time travel which is about as meaningful as dreaming about the past or future? See, there's this thing, you may have heard of it, called "immortality" and here it is being used as a tool so one guy can be a jerk, I mean a "scientist". Steins;Gate is to science as religion is to science. Noein is a lot more interesting because, and this may shock you, the universe is actually amoral. Neither good or bad, it doesn't care about drama. And it gets worse as someone invents spoiler[actual physical time travel] and I have to admit I never understood that part. To put it simply, what happened to the other guy? I expected the guy with the memories/experiences to spoiler[actually die] but he took the place of... Look, if a science fiction story only works as long as you don't think about it, it's actually called "fantasy". |
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Galap
Moderator
Posts: 2354 |
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^ I actually agree with you on almost all of that. I was debating whether to include my issues with Steins Gate in the post and decided against it, because I figured that if I did that would be all that would be replied to. I left them out and I guess that's what I'm ending up talking about anyway
Also, any and all typos are unintentional. Anways, I think that it's a shame that the second half of SG was devoted to saving Mayuri and 'correcting' the timeline. There could at least have been a discussion about the issue of how if all these worldlines exist, what does it mean to find the 'right' one, and is that merely a personal journey? Anyways, I consider the first half of SG to be vastly superior to the second. I think the part where they make the discovery and investigate what they found was excellently handled; too bad it had to turn into the standard 'fix the timeline I messed up' quest. Noein is one of my favorite anime, and the universe's amorality is one of the reasons I like it so much. Any character's desires and goals are merely their own desires, and it's up to the other characters and the viewer to judge the morality of their actions and goals. In Noein, the universe felt very physical and real, more like our own. I only didn't talk about this one yet because Ghost_wheel already did, but since you brought it up, I think it's appropriate. The scientific handling of quantum mechanics and the many worlds interpretatoin is much better in Noein, too. I'd say that the main technological conceit is the development of technology (the Magic Circle project in the 'present' timeline, which has equivalents in the futures of Lacrima and Shangrila, and an equivalent in the Dragon Torc in the past. What this technology does is enables the undoing of classical measurments, and the removal of decoherence, allowing quantum coherence to manifest itself at the classical level. You can undo a quantum measurement. If anyone wants to read more about that, look up 'quantum eraser', or , more interestlingly 'delayed choice quantum eraser'. It should be possible in theory to undo a classical measurement, but only by undoing 10^23+ quantum entanglements that make up that measurement. Their technology does exactly that. Noein is such a beautiful show. |
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