Forum - View topicNEWS: Japan's Lack of Laws on Virtual Child Porn Criticized
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commsky
 Posts: 40 Location: Riverside, CA |
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It would impede upon freedom of speech if you have an open interpretation of the constitution, it would stop you from drawing what you want, I don't know about Japan though.
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Phantom14
 Posts: 86 Location: USA |
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There have been ALOT of mature posts here going on. This way of posting replys has gotten SO much better since the last time I saw a discussion on "virtual child porn" and "Lolita manga and porn"
That said, I personally believe that "virtual child porn" is not healthy (no proof to back that statement up) nor do I belive it is moraly justified to read or make such said items. Now I do on occasion like to look at porn and check out hentai manga and anime. Sometimes its a good way to "relive" the stress I get from my job. I had a girlfreind about 6 months ago and yes we had sex, and we did all kinds of things, so I have a healthy sexual lifestyle (that's a story for another time). Im not a nut case, and i am not some rabid otaku that is fat and smells bad. Hell I work as a paramedic so if I dont stay in shape I can really screw myself up. If anything I too have seen some real life sh** that will probably bring some tears to your eyes. I'm 19 y/o and im going to be 20 in two months. My life story is not all the different from alot of other people. It may sound hypocritical to most by saying that Lolio-porn and "virtual child Porn" is an immoral thing considering some of the "immoral" things that I have personally done, BUT I don't see how someone man or woman can sexually gratify themselves to an image of a child. Virtual or NOT! Having dealt with many children in many situations I can say that a child no matter the maturity lvl whether it is physical or mental maturity, they do not compare at all with that of an adult. No child can ever enjoy the real satisfaction that sex between two adults can enjoy. In fact it harms the child. But that is what happens to real life people . When it comes to the virtual no one is being harmed. But the same mentality is still at work. A person sexually abusing a child is only about satisfying themselves. A person watching "virtual child porn" is only in it for the same reason a person abusing a child is in it for: themselves and their sexual gratification. Just look at the defention of pornography in itself: 1 : the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement 2 : material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement 3 : the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction Now add the visualization of a child virtual or not at the end of these "depictions". I do want to point out that looking for FREE adult porn on the internet is so easy a monkey can do it. You do have to look for "virtual child porn" in this case it would only serve to prove my point that the same mentality of a person looking at child porn and performing child abuse, they are ONLY in it for their own sexual gratification. Now look at this from another perspective and one that I do belive is a powerful one. Is anyone being hurt with these "virtual" depictions? And what is being DONE to help those in real life that are being tortured by these disgusting acts? The answer is a simple NO to the first question. Like I said before, these people that look at this are only in it for their own sexual gratification. The only person being affected by this is the person jer**ng off to it and the person who made that gets his share of the money for making it. Thats it. No child blaming themselvs for being a bad kid, no ER, no police, and defently no me having to take child to hospital and deal with this kind of bullsh**. Just a guy and his hand. I already pointed the some of the resons of why this stuff is wrong, I wont go through them again. The second and MOST IMPORTANT of them all in this kind of discussion is what is being done to stop the real life tortures of these abuses. The answer to that question is a really sad NOT ENOUGH. I like it the way one person here put it, some of these organizations have NOT RIGHT to tackle something like "virtual child porn" if they have no done ANYTHING to solve the problem of child abuse, the human sex slave problem, kid soldiers, starving kids, and providing REAL education like math, science, reading and writing! Hell if more people were educated I dont think that there would be much of this "virtual child porn" An educated world is one big solution to most of these worlds problems. If these 4 FUNDAMENTAL teachings are not taught to our children, and to our uneducated people of the second and third world, problems like these will just grown bigger and bigger. Please comment, I would love to hear how this discussion continues. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Indeed, and this is exactly where I worry about the future of human freedom even under a democratic government. I'm pleased to see how quick and in what a majority people here have spoke up in defense of this. However, it's awfully easy to speak up in defense of virtual child pornography on the internet along a bunch of like minded people and with total anonymity. It's significantly harder to do so in real life. I must question just how many of you would be willing to speak up in real life to say you think it should be legal. How many would rally in it's defense, protest it's banning, etc? (I'm by no means judging, I can't say with certainty I would). There is also the perhaps more serious issue of simple ignorance. People who don't think about the larger issue and only base their decision on their knee-jerk reaction to virtual child pornography. Also, as long as that's the case, it handcuffs those who do see the larger issue. Everyone in the political structure ultimately answers to somebody which eventually leads back to the people. The more people are against something, the more difficult it is for political figures to support it. (Of course, in principle that is the way it ought to be). It's certainly concerning though. People may fail to see the problem until it's too late. |
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Dardre
 Posts: 166 |
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As many other posters have said so far 'No real children were harmed' with these types of manga and anime. If Japan does cave in, they would then have to devote resources into investigating, arresting, putting the defendants on trial, and then (if convicted) imprisoning them. That's a lot of manpower, and manpower hours, that's not actually helping a real child that is being abused. As R315r4z0r said, these types of laws were written to protect real children from abuse.
I feel strongly about Freedom of Speech, and this whole 'virtual/fictional child porn' thing is a direct attack on that freedom. No government that states they support Freedom of Speech should be passing these types of laws (and yes I include my own US of A, I was immensely disappointed in that Protect Act). Just because it's offensive doesn't mean it should be illegal. P.S. This isn't just about children (i.e. prepubescent) but also about underage teenagers too. It's also not about them having explicit sex, but that children and teens being 'sexualized' (which, if you noticed, is an extremely vague and subjective statement). That would mean it would apply to teenage fanservice as well. A list of anime and manga that have that kind of fanservice would be long indeed, particularly since the article doesn't define what underage means. Is it by the laws of the country of origin, or by the laws of the country in which it's viewed? My impression, from the article, is whichever would make the most people guilty. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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loka
 Posts: 373 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
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man, does this irritate me. oh, so you can make real porn of someone that is short, flat-chested (in the case of a girl), and has a baby-face ((but is 18)), but can't ******* DRAW it?
oh, so it's only the 'lines on a page' who look X age or younger? where do you draw the line [no pun intended]?? give them a bush or beard? you better ****ing enforce the same regulations on actual porn. 'cause i know if i see a live-action porn with someone who looks 12 (have you SEEN 12yr olds these days?), it makes me just wanna jump up and go rape someone. Anyone who can't see the flaws in Laws against virtual porn either doesn't have the intelligence to deduce logical outcomes, or is on some religious agenda and thinks so because their religious figurehead said so. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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BTW, can you show me an actual picture of such a real person at 18, as you described? 
Last edited by Mohawk52 on Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ambrogino
 Posts: 57 Location: York, England |
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I agree with most of the posters. But look at this from UNICEF's point of view - there is a man petitioning for the right to marry a virtual character. If that law goes through then virtual children will no longer be safe! The Japanese will have free rein to abuse imaginary children to their heart's content, with full protection of the law!
No, far better to prevent the existance of imaginary children before that law comes to pass than risk them being abused under the cover of "marriage". |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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I'm afraid there are quite a few real people out there who's preferred birth control is the imaginary kind.
Anyway though, I've got no issue with people marrying imaginary characters. Just be careful she doesn't take all your stuff in the in the inevitable imaginary divorce. Or would she take all your imaginary stuff in the real divorce? Whatever. The point is don't get fictional married. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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I’m assuming these changes are proposed to prevent the desires for certain acts from being fed, by means of getting rid of all material which bears any resemblance to such acts. The results being to the detriment of those who indulge in such material without any desires pertaining to the corporeal world.
Mutatis mutandis within Japanese law, I doubt this’ll have much of an effect on the goings-on within various imageboards anyway, only certain individuals' sources of income.
Within certain academic disciplines that’s quite a controversial statement to make. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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One can use statistics to massage data, I'm aware of that. But what one can't ignore is that the massive rise in porn available in Japan hasn't resulted in a massive increase in sex crimes, but rather a decrease. Perhaps there were outlying circumstances (I'd like to think that as a scientist, Diamond took those into account, but I'm aware that PhD doesn't always equal smart). But whatever they might be, that society has managed to handle an increase in all kinds of porn and dramatically lower their sex crimes rate at the same time, all without the laws people are clamoring for. To me that means the laws aren't what's needed. Also, the researcher here provided raw data. That's a good sign that he's not just massaging numbers and blowing smoke. It doesn't mean his conclusions are necessarily correct, but it does mean the numbers are there in black and white for people to draw their own conclusions.
Hmm, I don't buy this argument. This was a look at sex *crimes*. Something that's not OK to be fun. Rape of an adult is just as wrong as rape of a child, and both can be legally role-played or fantasized about via hentai manga to let off steam. At least in Japan. These cases are very similar, and that is why it's relevant. The second study btw did include sex crimes against children, and that data was consistent with the rest. I do agree that this is a topic requiring careful consideration, but that also means being willing to admit that the the studies people have done might not match up to people's expectations and hopes and what common sense tells us. I for one was very much against porn until I started reading more about it and found much of what I believed about it was untrue. Unfortunately, if there are definitive studies on either side of the argument, I've not seen them. But if someone does produce one that does link sex crimes to porn, as a former victim, believe me when I say I'm all for taking legal steps to put a stop to it. I've just seen more convincing studies that support a lack of a link. |
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Ambrogino
Posts: 57 Location: York, England |
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Unfortunatley, it's entirely likely that wouldn't go far enough. One imaginary character would "forget" their imaginary birth control, and next thing you know we'd be up to our eyeballs in badly drawn porn again. No, mandatory imaginary sterilisation is the only sure way to fulfill UNICEF's goals. Now some may call them fascists for that, but lets face it - as long as their goal's to protect the (imaginary) children, what's a bit of fascism between friends? |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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