Forum - View topicEditorial: An Open Letter to the Industry
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HitokiriShadow
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Then you may want to expand your imagination a bit. Many people may not even be aware of AMV.org and even those that are, the YouTube version may be perfectly adequate for multiple viewings. Or they may view it again when at a different computer. I have a number of YouTube videos that I've used for background music and would repeatedly replay. Admitedly, most of these were OP/EDs (which I eventually obtained through other means) rather than AMVs but some of them were not. |
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missing_soul
Posts: 44 |
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About naivety:
- all right, to lower marketing cost you need a portal and to ally - to convince the fan base you're the good guy (first condition if you ever want to stop the subbers) you need to cooperate - to educate fans and rise the market's value to very big proportions you need to cooperate You won't cooperate, because: 1) you're concurrents 2) you all want to print money from the same product (once licensing costs covered selling dvds just amounts to that) 3) you're not even interested in raising the market's value, because then the Japanese licensing politics will change. SO what you industry people will do is continue to try to make fans feel guilty. |
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missing_soul
Posts: 44 |
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All I wanted to demonstrate, the clip was watched by Anime fans (because they targeted _only_ SailorMoon's AMV, that means they had info) So our viewers are supposedly anime, at least AMV fans. And you say they don't know how to download from YouTube or set up a codec to watch it in local. Let me laugh on that. 
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james039
Posts: 103 |
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Why can't we have access to Japanese TV in North America? I don't mean fansubs, but an actual placement of Japanese TV stations on cable, or maybe one special channel that plays the best shows? You could charge money for it, and people can have their anime legally.
A large part of the fansub problem, I think, is there's no legal avenue for people residing outside of Japan to access their TV stations. I know the demand for such a service is going to be very niche, but if they can charge $25/mo on the dish for TV Japan, charging similar fees for some sort of "TV Japanime" might very well serve this purpose and make a lot of people happy. It would be a subtitled thing for sure, because we're talking same week broadcasts as Japan, if this is to make a significant dent in the fansub trade. I think this is feasible, if the price is right, since it doesn't take that long to churn out a fansub, professionals shouldn't need much time to get the subs ready, and the Japanese company would likely not have licensed it out to a North American company, so they would already own the copyright. It would also be an extra revenue stream for the Japanese animation companies. |
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HitokiriShadow
Posts: 6251 |
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Um, no I never said that.
I have no idea what that means. I know what a codec is but I don't know what you mean by "watch it in local." By all means, laugh yourself to death because I fail to see how either one of these has anything to do with what I actually said.
Last edited by HitokiriShadow on Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tygerchickchibi
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Think about what you just said. Do you think anyone else has access to American TV in other countries? Well...Cartoon Network is a global thing, so they have it in other countries. Then again, companies do offer international channels, but it's going to mostly be for the Spanish speaking community, since they're a large figure in the US population. I mean, really, if we had to gain the rights of Japanese TV, then we would have to cater to all other languages/ethnicities in the US. We're just anime/manga/pop culture fans. We can only take a few steps at a time. Next to that...I mean, yeah, it would take a hell of a lot to translate EVERYTHING, even the commercials. >.>; It would take time to go that far, and yeah, Spanish/Latino content would obviously be picked first. It would be a long process too. |
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missing_soul
Posts: 44 |
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Everyone merits a response.
As I wrote I just wanted to demonstrate the people who watched the Haruhi video are interested either in anime or AMV. To get information about how to download from YouTube try this: http://www.google.hu/search?hl=hu&q=youtube+download&meta= I suppose people interested in anime or amv know how to google, download, and setup a player but then it is possible I'm mistaken. Anyway google use flv format and to use your favorite player you need an flv codec. Fortunately the page in question sends you right to the download page of a player. Sorry for using the word codec. ... such people prefer usually to watch video in high quality. That's the whole point of it. Also they prefer their player to YouTube. But if they want to watch the clip from YouTube because they don't know how to get the AMV they still download it from YouTube. Because they are people who do this all the time. I explained in detail why I think the exceptions from the previous rule are covered. So I suppose you could agree with me that the 400.000 viewers of SailorMoon's Haruhi AMV probably watched the clip once, and they managed to download it in good quality if they liked it, because they know how to do that OR at least they downloaded it from YouTube because watching it again and again on YouTube sucks for anime or amv fans. With the exceptions it is a good estimate that anime and amv fans a portal could reach should be well over 400.000. ... of course you can say now you did exactly that thing and watched a hundred times SailMoon's Haruhi AMV on YouTube. Your opinion? |
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missing_soul
Posts: 44 |
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Perhaps I'd better repeat this too:
I think the people who watched the amv in question on YouTube were anime or amv fans, because the next video with the subject of Haruhi has 200.000 hits and the anime itself has 30.000 hits by half-episode. IMHO the disparity in the numbers shows those who downloaded the amv was interested especially in the SailorMoon's Haruhi AMV and in nothing else. That means they had information beforehand because finding anything in a data sink like YouTube needs at least a keyword and an idea what do you want (even if the keyword is amv). |
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eaglestorm
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Why 48 hrs? If the production company wants to release a subtitled product at the same time, there's really nothing stopping them. Translations can be done as soon as the script is ready (including editing, etc.) during the episode's production. They do not have to wait for the episodes to be aired first to get a copy of them. They already have the originals. It is just a matter of whether they are willing to release a subtitled version at the same time or not. Comparatively minimal added expenditures (other than a few added staffs such translators, editors, etc) since the infrastructures are already present. |
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britannicamoore
 Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
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You guys mean Silvermoon right? She's just oblivious? Because this Sailor Moon you're talking about I can't find.
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missing_soul
Posts: 44 |
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Sorry my bad. Few hits for "Haruhi" on YouTube The Dance: 2.000.000 (err, here I'm all right with multiple viewing and viewers outside anime and amv interest) Clip(from anime itself) 500.000 Ending: 122.000 AMV Skittles: 836.000 AMV She's just oblivious: 470.000 Dance: 105.000 Ending: 235.000 Dance: 186.000 AMV special (comp. with Gundam) 421.000 and then: AMV Haruhi is forever 6.000 with the remark: "my first AMV" And a long list of videos with little interest. These numbers: 400.000, 200.000 pops up with quite amazing regularity. I'd say these people were also fairly selective what to watch. |
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missing_soul
Posts: 44 |
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All right. Next time I try to argue I'm going to play analyst.
It seems I used http://uk.youtube.com for searching youtube Anyway the situation is quite the same on http://www.youtube.com/ (I checked and it gives for AMV skittles the same number: 836,047 so it's the same content server) but the search result is in different order. Search "Haruhi' on http://uk.youtube.com if you are interested in my search result. |
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Moomintroll
 Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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Only in the way that you have the BBC in America - the brand is the same but much of the programming differs according to local market requirements.
You do realise that Japanese TV stations don't play anime 24 hours a day, right? For the most part it's live action drama, soap operas, game shows, sports, news and documentaries - just like you get on US TV. |
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Moomintroll
Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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Xanas -
Well, I'm still disagreeing with you but at least we're disagreeing with one another in an intelligent fashion. This thread is making progress in leaps and bounds!
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was about five at the time and I saw it on TV. Come to think of it, I seem to remember prefering the (entirely non-Japanese) comic that accompanied the series. Should have hung onto those - they're probably worth a bit now...
True enough - but I think the same is true of many other forms of entertainment that don't necessarily correspond well with lasting mainstream success. Hence my D&D example. It's a lot easier to market a craze (e.g. Pokemon) than a lasting hobby but if you don't retain your fans into adulthood, you have no revenue stream. Unfortunately, the very things that tend to enrapture the hardcore fans well into adulthood are often the same things it's hard to market to the average American (or European, for that matter). Ultimately, a stable niche market may well be more profitable than a here-today-gone-tomorrow mass market fad. Let me illustrate it this way: in the USA, Ingmar Bergman's films never grossed as much as the Police Academy movies on release but people will still be interested in them and buying them (in one medium or another) when the Police Academy films have been forgotten and out of print for half a century.
But if you saw those ad's on TV then you were already a TV fan - they were preaching to the converted, just as the anime ad's on ANN are. It's always easier to market something to somebody who already accepts the medium.
You also have to consider the enormous cost of widespread, mass market advertising campaigns. ADV simply can't afford it, let alone the smaller companies. Word of mouth is cheap. Giving your show to a TV station is cheap. Advertising on TV is expensive. Even if they could afford such a campaign, you couldn't blame them for being unwilling to risk so much cash on a maybe.
Ish. People who started out watching a shonen show may well be able to still appreciate it in adulthood, in large part due to nostalgia. And some adult anime fans who were never part of the show's demographic will lap it up because, well, some anime fans will watch pretty much anything provided it's anime. [I'm not judging them, mind you - I'm currently eyeing up a horribly expensive second hand copy of the out of print Panda! Go Panda! DVD...] Selling the same show to adult non-anime fans is a different thing altogether. More visceral violence isn't necessarily an indicator of mainstream appeal either. If you'd have said "sex", you might have been on to something - "sex sells" is a truism - but most America-friendly shonen anime doesn't have much of that (and if it did, you'd not get it in Cartoon Network).
Precisely. And are there more fansub downloaders in the USA than in Europe or Asia? I don't know but I wouldn't be suprised if US downloaders were actually a minority. My point is that if the anime companies are going to find a way past fansubs, they first have to know who (and where) the fansubbers are.
Well there is one mode that works universally - free, advert supported downloads. All you have to do is change the adverts to suit the specific market and the predominant demographic(s) that comprise it. I have a bit of an aversion to the idea of giving anime away for free because, on a purely emotional level, I feel it devalues it somehow. But I don't honestly see any other model replacing fansubs and making the current fansub audience a financial asset for the simple reason that I suspect even the lowest priced service will simply be ignored by many.
In theory, I agree. In practice I wonder about how one would go about compiling and distributing such surveys given the enormity of the task and the quantity of unknowns.
If you're a Japanese business, what does it matter if the subs are English or Cantonese or Polish? A fansub's a fansub. Even if we were talking about only English fansubs, a very large proportion are presumably consumed by non-Americans (whether it's other English speakers - British, Irish, Australian, Kiwi, South African etc. - or whether it's Europeans and others downloading English fansubs because of a scarcity in their first language). If it works to regain a few hundred thousand lost sheep in America, why not use the same method to add, potentially, millions of new sheep to the flock from other parts of the world?
Common sense?
Let's not. I didn't suggest there should be no research - I just questioned who should be researched and how.
I'm not saying they couldn't use it - I'm saying there are other things they could use to greater effect.
Well, no - the "nominal" bit is the key. "Hey, yeah, I'd totally buy that" is not a solid prediction of actual future behaviour.
Because this bit of the internet is not representative of the internet in general. Quite the contrary. It would be like Funimation basing its market research on a questionaire handed out in one corner of an anime convention - the responses gathered would hardly be typical or representative of the whole. |
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Moomintroll
Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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Chill out. I wasn't criticising whatever shonen stuff it is you like or saying you shouldn't watch it. The point is that advertisers care about demographics whether you do or not. Edit: Oh, and, yes, a "17 year old would do". Most people don't have lots of disposable income to spend on hobbies until they're well past university age. |
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