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The Mike Toole Show - Done with Computers


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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9317
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:12 pm Reply with quote
I'm not a fan of full CG unless it's well done, which means high budget and competently animated. Basically, the Japanese will never get it right unless it's a big production film like Advent Children...but in the end, the more cartoony the CG models, the better it looks so you don't fall into that uncanny valley like MS IGLOO. Pixar and Dreamworks get that right, their characters look appropriately like cartoons and not modeled on real body or facial proportions. I'm just not impressed with low quality CG, unlike smooth animation or stunning backgrounds. Perhaps in another 10 years, which is about how long it took Japan to get a hold of digital animation.
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Snomaster1
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:45 pm Reply with quote
I've heard about both "Vexille" and "Galerians:Rion." And,if I remember correctly,"Galerians" had some of the worst reviews I've ever seen of a computer generated anime. The only other anime I know of that got reviews that bad was "Apocalypse Zero." And since I haven't seen either one,I can't comment on how either of them are.
But,I have seen "Vexille." I basically fast forwarded through much of it because I had to return it the next day. The portrayal of America was a strange one but also somewhat positive. I once read in a review that one of the reasons that American CGI animation is so well-liked is that the characters are better drawn out. It also said that the Japanese had to work on their characters a bit.
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Ingraman



Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 1056
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:47 pm Reply with quote
ryoga79 wrote:
This article is missing out on the greatest CG animation of them all - Cat Shit One. That is epic and thats coming from a big Appleseed fan.

Yay! Someone finally brought up CS1! I've been waiting for a day or two to see if it came up, and was going to mention it, myself, on this visit to the ANN forum. It's a fun little video that, at this point, doesn't seem likely to get the additional episodes that the creators wanted to make.
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1782
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:13 pm Reply with quote
Sepherest wrote:
Wasn't the Galerians OVA mostly just the cutscenes from the game put together as a film? I haven't played it in ages so I don't remember, but once thing I definitely recall is how much the cutscenes of the game were advertised. They looked really great at the time compared to other ps1 games.


No, Galerians: Rion was most-definitely brand new. The OVA does have a bit more detail to it than the original game's cutscenes, and the OVA had to alter some bits of story so that the story could be told in that short amount of time. Also, I believe the sequel game, Galerians: Ash, actually used footage from the Rion OVA when it gave a quick recap of the original game's story at the beginning of Ash's story. In fact, Rion was actually packaged together with Ash in a limited edition release in Japan, so that might explain why Rion looks so rough overall.

And, man, did MTV2 re-run the hell out of the Rion OVA. I remember when MTV2 seemingly aired that title three times a day: morning, afternoon, & night.
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BushidoBlade87



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:43 pm Reply with quote
I think the recent .Hack movie did it right.

To me, being an old first wave .Hack fan, it really seemed to capture the general art and style of The World pretty well. I also enjoyed how it looked like they had fun with the difference between the game World and the real world. Everything was sort of -meh- until they logged in. Then it was bright and colorful and cartooney enough to really make it stand out.
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sonryu



Joined: 18 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:12 pm Reply with quote
When I watch an all CG movie, I don't go into it with high expectations or anything. CG will be CG. It can be good and enjoyable, or it can be bad and horrific. "Final Fantasy VII Advent Children" (Complete) is the best thing out there as far as image quality and use of CG effects (imo); it's my "go to" movie when I need to recommend something CG (or promote the image quality of blu-ray). "The Spirits Within" wasn't that bad, people just complain because it's not Final Fantasy. I enjoyed "Appleseed", "Appleseed: Ex Machina", and "Vexille". (I haven't yet watched "To" or "Oblivion Island" but I own them). I liked "Resident Evil: Degeneration". And while I'm not really a Tekken fan, I had no real complaints about "Blood Vengeance". I'm not going to nitpick the details, again, CG is CG; I'm not looking for an Academy Award Winning performance.

However, I would like to mention "Elysium", an all-CG Korean film from 2003 This has to be one of the worst examples of anything CG. It's graphics are on-par with bad videogame CG. The "special effects" are horrendous. And the plot... this has the most cliched piece of **** plot EVER. It's been 6 years since I've watched it, but to this day I still recall how I reacted while watching it; I spent the entire time laughing at it's ridiculousness, and rolling my eyes at how predictable the plot was.
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Joe Carpenter



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 500
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:52 am Reply with quote
Starship Troopers: Invasion has nudity, does that make it the first all CGI animated movie to have nudity I wonder? is this the medium's answer to Heavy Metal?
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:21 pm Reply with quote
No, it's just following the tradition of StarShip Troopers films having nudity in them.
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Kakugo



Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 163
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:33 pm Reply with quote
Joe Carpenter wrote:
Starship Troopers: Invasion has nudity, does that make it the first all CGI animated movie to have nudity I wonder? is this the medium's answer to Heavy Metal?


Not if you're willing to look into blatantly hardcore works. And if you treasure your sanity... don't..
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Giant_Robo_28



Joined: 27 Jan 2012
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Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:36 pm Reply with quote
Cat Shit One is easily the best CG animation from Japan and I think the reason why it works is because the characters anthropomorphic rabbits, as opposed to awkward looking humans. I know one of the things that always freaks me out when I watch the intro to S.A.C. Season One is the way the Major's teeth look when she's shooting the tank. There's just something freaking about the way the gums and the teeth look to remind me of how bad that stuff can look.
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StudioToledo



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Toledo, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:00 am Reply with quote
Anime World Order wrote:
I think the key problem with 3D CG anime is best summed up as follows: as I read this article, I felt inclined to go back and read my own writeup on the subject from back in 2008, when it dawned on me that...it's been 4 years and they still have many of the same problems that they've had 8 years ago, which were the same as 10 years ago, and so on.

I think I know what that is!

Quote:
I can boil it down to two things. The first is that when it comes to integrating 3D CG with "regular" animation, many anime production companies still don't seem to understand that having a "full animation" (24-30 frames per second) CG model in a "limited animation" world makes it jut out and look totally out of place. We're about to get a new Initial D anime, and something tells me that after all these years they still aren't going to remedy this. I'm sure "it's a feature, not a bug" syndrome has crept in on that one by now, but to most people here that aren't already fans it just makes the animation look bad.

Sure does. There's not a moment that goes by when I wish the 2D guys would be on 1's instead of 3's in those scenes, even using 2's would be nice.

Quote:
Still, I feel as though feature-length 3D CG anime is by and large way behind even what is getting done as far as all-CG US TV productions are concerned, and I'm not sure if anyone over there realizes it's because of flaws inherent to their execution instead of thinking "that's just because we don't have the budget of Disney/Dreamworks/Lucasfilm/etc."

They'll probably still pull that excuse. The only way I could see it improve is if they did hire someone who has worked for those Hollywood studios and have him show them how to do it.

vinamara wrote:
Just dropped in to say that I simple adored Titan AE and I watched it like twenty times and still remains one of my favorites even now. It pains me to even think that it bombed badly even though it was amazing.

I bothered to go see it in the theaters when it premiered, yet walked out thinking I could've rewrote the entire film and make it work.

configspace wrote:
But the impression you get with this is very unnatural even though, ironically it's more realistic. That's because you'll notice in real life, when you see someone casually speak, your mental impression as you look at them casually from mostly frontal view, filters out small movements. Your impression filters out the jaw bone and major muscle moving up and down and the constant facial muscle movements. Only for larger, more expressive expressions do we register those facial muscle changes.

That technique in 2D anime is also plenty present in 2D western and US animation as well.

It really comes down to learning how to "lip sync" which isn't really that well executed in anime anyway.

Kakugo wrote:
I liked Titan AE the way I like most on Don Bluth's films; I have an overwhelming respect for its visual personality and technical accomplishment, I just wish he'd find someone besides Gary Goldman to handle the storytelling duties.

It also doesn't help when the story already passed through several different hands before getting to Bluth & Co.

Sprocket wrote:
I don't know if all-CG fare is that rare any more, it's just not as apparent: There's a block of anime on Saturday mornings on TV Tokyo that's entirely all-CG, albeit it's all sequels of franchises that aren't as popular in Japan as they used to be, so they only get 15-minute episodes, like Duel Masters and Bakugan. There's also the all-CG remake of Mysterious Cities of Gold, which is still being animated by Studio Pierrot, plus the recent all-CG One Piece movie.

Actually Studio Pierrot isn't involved with the remake last I've heard about it.
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Joe Carpenter



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 500
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:27 pm Reply with quote
Kakugo wrote:
Joe Carpenter wrote:
Starship Troopers: Invasion has nudity, does that make it the first all CGI animated movie to have nudity I wonder? is this the medium's answer to Heavy Metal?


Not if you're willing to look into blatantly hardcore works. And if you treasure your sanity... don't..


I'm only talking about mainstream released movies, not porno
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Chrno2



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 6157
Location: USA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:15 am Reply with quote
Finally had the chance of reading this column. I had to sit down on this one. Quite a list of films. I'd heard of that feature Catblue Dynamite, never saw it but I had seen a little of the Dominion Tank Police CG movie. Gawd, that was the most chunkiest cel shading I'd ever seen. When compared to Appleseed (which was done Aramaki) you'd expect that when someone tries another of Shirow's works, they'd learn something. I guess what I was expecting was that after seeing Appleseed and then hearing about the Dominion I expected the same, but of course that wasn't the case. Since we're talking about two different directions.

That Friends: Monsters of Naki Island looks really cute. In a way it almost seems like it's borrowing a lot of it's ideas from oh say... 'Monster Inc'. Different premises but the idea of monsters bonding with a human child. This has been done a million times, but you almost never get tired of it because the whole point of these types of features is that they caters to "children". They are family movies. No matter what culture barriers arise it boils down to the same thing, love, family and togetherness, and possibly understanding the unYou want a series of a human children being raised in sea of craziness, try reading Space Family Carl Vinson. But I doubt that film will see the light here but here's hoping. I hope it gets picked for the next NYICFF (gkids) 2013 lineup.
I loved Oblivion Island it's a great little feature with some really nice visuals. I had attended the first screening back in 2010 when it was first announced here. This was the same year Summer Wars was to be premiered along with the director Mamoru Hosoda. This my first time attending one of these festivals. I went for 2 reasons, 1) It looked interesting along with rest of the line up and 2) I felt that it would never see stateside. Never expected it to get a release here. I took my niece and my mother to see the English premier and both enjoyed it. And while I'm not crazy about dubs, I enjoyed this one. I've long got out of being snobbish about dubs. I still can't stand some of them but when you have family that doesn't read subtitles you need them. Which means making a good dub too for someone who might need a day off from reading a feature. So I'll be carrying my niece's copy over today. So now she can watch the movie as much as she wants. Plus, I have my (BD/DVD combo) copy.

But I'm hoping to see more good things come out of Japan, animationwise. But can they expand their horizons with something cutting edge in both 2D and 3D? China and Korean seem to be making their way into the spotlight as well. But I have yet to see a Chinese production in CG that headlines.
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